BANGLADESH and PAKISTAN - The destruction of Buddhism and Hinduism

[Xeric]

And why should the largest Muslim nation be in the Indian subcontinent and not in Arabia?

How will Arabia repent for all the misery, mass murders, rapine and genocide they inflicted all over the place? The kind of barbarity and intolerance shown by these guys has no parallel in history. How would you compensate for that?

Wow..."misery, mass murders, rapine and genocide" thats remind me of what indian army is doing in kashmir....thnx dude...i almost forgot about kashmir...
anuwaz, can you elaborate your findings....people here will like to read more about them..

 

[Vinod2070]

Wow..."misery, mass murders, rapine and genocide" thats remind me of what indian army is doing in kashmir....thnx dude...i almost forgot about kashmir...
anuwaz, can you elaborate your findings....people here will like to read more about them..

It's easy enough to find all these details if you are willing to acknowledge them or actually if you have the courage to do so.

Why don't we start with Timur Lame and Gazhani? Gazhani is your hero! Know what he did to the lands now called Pakistan? How many millions he murdered and raped and enslaved? Of course you know and cheer his destruction of Somnath temple and thousands of other temples! You revere him as "But Shikan par excellence"!

Abdali is another hero! Why? For his destruction of the Golden temple and the accompanying murders and loot and rapes?

I can give innumerable examples. Let me get your thoughts on these two "Islamic heroes" first.

 

[Vinod2070]

And have you come across any posts of mine supporting those people?

On this thread we are concerned with this gentleman's arguments, and whatever Khatami does (the Iranian regime is widely accepted as fundamentalist, so I would imagine it would be clear that their interpretations would also be fundamentalist, and hence should not be used as excuse for people aware of that to incorporate similar interpretations while talking about Islam), does not excuse this guy from out of context quotations.

Islam does not have a central authority, and given the sheer disparity between the Taliban's view and the views of moderates, I would argue that Islam is very much a decentralized religion.

I never said that you support extremism. Far from it. Actually you (and a couple of other folks on this forum) have helped change my initial perceptions about Pakistanis. Though many more reinforce those perception. But I guess the same may be true for India.

The discussion was not about your views but whether the people interpreting those Ayahs in a certain way were misrepresenting or not getting the context. This is the most often used argument by Muslims. Now it is obvious that the same interpretations are used by knowledgeable authorities of Islam too. People who are (or profess to be) much more Islamic than most Muslims.

Which one is the correct interpretation, I would not know. Both sides feel they are the correct ones. Outsiders can not be faulted if they see what is happening and assume the worst.

 

[Vinod2070]

Why should'nt India join Pakistan to make up f4 destroying the worlds largest Muslim Nation. Yeah we had the largest muslim nation and population before Indians decided to poke their dirty nose in our affairs. There will be a video out on that soon as well. Don't worry about it...

Oh man, we are so afraid!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There is no denying that horrors happened on both sides. In India they were limited to specific areas like Punjab, Delhi, Bihar and Bengal. Areas which felt the impact of the refugees coming from across the border to the maximum extent. If there was a deliberate move to evict Muslims from India, it would have happened all across India like it happened in Pakistan.

The very fact that in India the impact was so limited in location itself provides empirical evidence that it was mainly revenge violence once the refugees coming back told the horror stories.

Even in areas like Hyderabad where Razakaars had indulged in violence against the natives, there was no large scale exodus of Muslims after India recovered the state.

I disagree - that is a highly speculative argument, and one that implicitly tries to do exactly what you initially denied - placing the blame on Pakistan alone.

While I can not give you the statistics you asked for as I don't have them, just looking at the number of minorities left in each country should give a fair idea of where the violence was planned and where it was a reaction.

The statistics are the only things that can clear things up, otherwise you have every other guy ranting about 22% drop in Hindu population down to 2 percent - when that 22% figure most likely includes the much larger Hindu population in then East Pakistan.

Anything otherwise is mere speculation.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

These are interesting from the academic point of view.

Why did they decline? Good reasons must be there.

But then, it would only open up wounds and not lead to the harmony that one desires between the two countries.

We have set ourselves the path of harmony and let history be set aside. Let us look to the future!

Was the decline proportional to the migration out of West Pakistan?

Was the migration out of West Pakistan equal to the migration out of India?

The answers to those questions are important to determine whether the accusations leveled are true or not.

"Wounds" have already been opened, they are opened every time this issue is brought up, and it is brought up often by Indians.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I never said that you support extremism. Far from it. Actually you (and a couple of other folks on this forum) have helped change my initial perceptions about Pakistanis. Though many more reinforce those perception. But I guess the same may be true for India.

The discussion was not about your views but whether the people interpreting those Ayahs in a certain way were misrepresenting or not getting the context. This is the most often used argument by Muslims. Now it is obvious that the same interpretations are used by knowledgeable authorities of Islam too. People who are (or profess to be) much more Islamic than most Muslims.

Which one is the correct interpretation, I would not know. Both sides feel they are the correct ones. Outsiders can not be faulted if they see what is happening and assume the worst.

I apologize if I misunderstood our post. I see what your point is, but I think that, as you yourself admit, when multiple viewpoints are observed, it is not so hard to make a nuanced statement or analysis.

Something along the lines of, "some Muslims believe...", "some/many orthodox Muslims believe..." etc.

That would convey everything that needs to be conveyed, and not tar everyone with the same brush.

 

[Vinod2070]

I disagree - that is a highly speculative argument, and one that implicitly tries to do exactly what you initially denied - placing the blame on Pakistan alone.

I never said there were no atrocities in India. I just said that in India they were more or less limited to certain locations which were more impacted by the partition violence being closer to the border.

This should be easy enough to verify within Pakistan. Most of the refugees would be Punjabis (maximum violence on both sides). Muhajirs would be mostly UPites (most vocal supporters of partition) or may be Biharis.

Most of the other states with significant Muslim populations did not see migration even in low single digit % AFAIK. I feel that presents at least some empirical evidence of what happened.

It also proves that the Indian leadership was committed to the safety of Muslims in India and did not favor their leaving the country in spite of the feeling among a large section of the population of having been betrayed.

The statistics are the only things that can clear things up, otherwise you have every other guy ranting about 22% drop in Hindu population down to 2 percent - when that 22% figure most likely includes the much larger Hindu population in then East Pakistan.

Anything otherwise is mere speculation.

I agree with you that statistics alone can provide a real measure of what happened and not emotionally charged, one-sided accounts.

Until we get that, we can also make do with the minority populations in the two countries and their population trends.

In India Muslim minorities are growing as a % of population. That proves something I believe.

What is the trend rate of minorities population in Pakistan? What does that mean?

 

[Xeric]

It's easy enough to find all these details if you are willing to acknowledge them or actually if you have the courage to do so.

Why don't we start with Timur Lame and Gazhani? Gazhani is your hero! Know what he did to the lands now called Pakistan? How many millions he murdered and raped and enslaved? Of course you know and cheer his destruction of Somnath temple and thousands of other temples! You revere him as "But Shikan par excellence"!

Abdali is another hero! Why? For his destruction of the Golden temple and the accompanying murders and loot and rapes?

I can give innumerable examples. Let me get your thoughts on these two "Islamic heroes" first.

All true...all true..and we all are proud of it...
if you indians (who are only proud of the animals they worship) have a problem with them...............................................
so keep on having it...it is none of our bussiness...u mind ur own turd....btw there is nothing that you can do about it....except complimenting those heroes again again on this forum...thnx and carry on

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I disagree - that is a highly speculative argument, and one that implicitly tries to do exactly what you initially denied - placing the blame on Pakistan alone.



The statistics are the only things that can clear things up, otherwise you have every other guy ranting about 22% drop in Hindu population down to 2 percent - when that 22% figure most likely includes the much larger Hindu population in then East Pakistan.

Anything otherwise is mere speculation.

My family is from East Pakistan; therefore, it becomes a little far fetched to believe it was a one way traffic. It must be realised that no one wants to give up his home and hearth, unless there are good reasons!

Of course, if you can make me believe that it was all peaceful and people quit their hearth and homes for no good reasons, I will be grateful!!

It is interesting to hear that there was no Sikhs, Hindus etc in what became Pakistan. What does the census say. What is the latest census? It must be remembered that Pakistan is not too keen on census and therefore the story can never be known!

In West Pakistan, there were no Sikhs, Hindus etc and every minority was from East Pakistan?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Vinod is banned because he is getting difficult?

I don't find him to be offensive to Pakistan per se!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Engima.

If you think being an idiot is the way to win an argument, you are sadly mistaken.

It shows you are a ignorant person with high pretensions and you are misusing the forum wherein a Pakistan can with immense ignorance and abusive language can survive!

Do come to a neutral board and let us debate it out and let me show how stupid and shallow you are!

What exactly intellectual have you contributed with this post

All true...all true..and we all are proud of it...
if you indians (who are only proud of the animals they worship) have a problem with them.............................................. .
so keep on having it...it is none of our bussiness...u mind ur own turd....btw there is nothing that you can do about it....except complimenting those heroes again again on this forum...thnx and carry on

You have indicated that like most of you, you are totally brain crippled!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Engima,

Only the best of my army go to do course in the US.

If the same is applicable to Pakistan and with your intelligence and debating power, I would not even allow you to attend an NCOs Course!

 

[Neo]

Vinod is banned because he is getting difficult?

I don't find him to be offensive to Pakistan per se!

He's serving temporary ban.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Neo,.

I find Vinod at times very pro Pakistan.

Indeed, it does not affect me since he does say things that are correct and which even if pro Paksitan is the truth!

And I feel truth should prevail!

The days of idiotic animosity are over!