Bangladesh Airforce To Purchase FC-20/J-10 From China

[HAIDER]

BD has better chance to get AL31 , then Pakistan. Don't think India will raise issue on this engine

 

[ghauri05]

Even bangladesh is replacing F-7s with J-10... n we will continue to beg for F-16...whether US provides us or not or back stabs us in a crucial moment.

As the bangladeshi members have pointed out that they are going for both SU-30 and J-10....it shows that decision maker in BAF are doing far better job than those of PAF.

1) They are going for twin engine heavy fighters for strike role (but to talk about a heavy in PAF is a sin, we will continue to claim ourselves as defensive airforce...makes me wonder if BAF can go for offensive fighters, what are our PAF think tanks are thinking by denying the need of a heavy fighter).

2)They are going to replace F-7 with medium fighters and we are doing the same thing with Light fighters....just imagine if today Paf was making 58% of J-10 in kamra ingeniously instead of that of JF-17 and inducted about 80 J-10s in about 10 years,what a force would that be.

I am seriously thinking as Bangladesh is outperforming us in economy it might do so in defense too...yes their numbers will be much smaller but their procurement strategy looks quite better than that of PAF atleast.

 

[ghauri05]

I suppose that's why the Air Force Chief himself flew the plane.
And don't bring up Navy because that'll show your complete lack of understanding of the subject. They'll fly LCA.

Anyway, I meant IAF will induct the plane when it reaches the IAF threshold. Not that it's only for export.

I even said Indians should've followed that path, but only for exporting until it reaches the IAF threshold, which is much greater than the PAF threshold for JF17.
(Also, the export variant should always be steps ahead of JF17 of the time.)

whenever you ask about tejas, indians give the same crappy reply that IAF's requirement are much more advanced..i mean seriously what are those requirements.... does IAF wants it to be a Star War's plane...firing laser...hyper sonic,completely invisible....i mean ..sometimes i think indians are a really gullible nation...their armed forces give them a lollypop and they all go after it.. or arjun or nirbhay..on every platform indians say our requirements are much complex....the only thing they don't want to do is accept their mistakes and shortcomings..and that's the precise reason that tejas took over 30 years to debut and that too on truck on indian republic day. It's the simple fact.

 

[aryadravida_exmuslim]

whenever you ask about tejas, indians give the same crappy reply that IAF's requirement are much more advanced..i mean seriously what are those requirements.... does IAF wants it to be a Star War's plane...firing laser...hyper sonic,completely invisible....i mean ..sometimes i think indians are a really gullible nation...their armed forces give them a lollypop and they all go after it.. or arjun or nirbhay..on every platform indians say our requirements are much complex....the only thing they don't want to do is accept their mistakes and shortcomings..and that's the precise reason that tejas took over 30 years to debut and that too on truck on indian republic day. It's the simple fact.

No one is ignoring the influence of kickbacks in India.
But IAF never had the need to induct a light fighter in big numbers before it reaches maturity. And so we have just started inducting them.
PAF had the need to induct a light fighter in big numbers before it reached maturity, to avoid being a tin-can air force. And so they started inducting JF17 long before and keeps making it better in time.
(Though Tejas as a platform is better and destined to always stay ahead of JF17. Like some Hong Kong article said, Tejas is the future and JF17 is the present.)

I said somewhere that Tejas could have gone the JF17 way, but purely for export. Then induct in IAF when it reaches their demands. But a combination of kickbacks and lack of urgency kept the project a slow one.
But none can ignore what it did to the domestic aeronautics industry.

Anyway, no, it's not about Star Wars. Just about a proper 4th gen fighter, which currently the JF17 is not and the Tejas is.

 

[ghauri05]

No one is ignoring the influence of kickbacks in India.
But IAF never had the need to induct a light fighter in big numbers before it reaches maturity. And so we have just started inducting them.
PAF had the need to induct a light fighter in big numbers before it reached maturity, to avoid being a tin-can air force. And so they started inducting JF17 long before and keeps making it better in time.
(Though Tejas as a platform is better and destined to always stay ahead of JF17. Like some Hong Kong article said, Tejas is the future and JF17 is the present.)

I said somewhere that Tejas could have gone the JF17 way, but purely for export. Then induct in IAF when it reaches their demands. But a combination of kickbacks and lack of urgency kept the project a slow one.
But none can ignore what it did to the domestic aeronautics industry.

Anyway, no, it's not about Star Wars. Just about a proper 4th gen fighter, which currently the JF17 is not and the Tejas is.

i am just asking about those simple 4th gen requirements....and as indians have always claimed that they are technologically more advanced than us..why it took so much time to meet just proper 4th gen requirement....n i am sure you are aware that your own media has reported tejas is only 35% indegenious...so what the hell is india trying to achieve here. almost everything in tejas is foriegn..its radar,avionics..engines..i mean what is IAF producing for tejas..its wheels may be...by a JV with TATA trucks????

Due to our compact small geography,even if we maintain half of the force of Pakistan(army,air force,navy,paramilitary), it will gave a nightmare for any possible Indian misadventure.Strategic thinker in Pakistan maintain that 20 squadron combat aircraft is needed to defend Pakistani airspace in case of war with India.Our strategic thinker suggest for 10 squadron combat aircraft.Given the pace of our order it is all certain that Bangladesh will achieve this goal by 2030.We get a tremendous benefit of having a powerful country like Pakistan in the west side of India,I must agree.

I do agree with the squadron numbers you have mentioned..but look at the platforms which both airforces will have..F-16 no doubt a tremendous aircraft and can match Su-30 in an air-to-air fight...but the only shortcoming is its medium weight..that means less range n payload ..the thing that worries me...that PAF is not accepting the strike role of an airforce...in 1965 if our PAF dominated, it was because we were offensive not defensive...n now whenever you talk about a heavy aircraft for PAF....we get the reply we are a defensive force ..we don't want air superiority but only air denial to our enemy...i mean this thinking is the main worry here..in today's world no one uses airforce as a defensive force.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

i am just asking about those simple 4th gen requirements....and as indians have always claimed that they are technologically more advanced than us..why it took so much time to meet just proper 4th gen requirement....n i am sure you are aware that your own media has reported tejas is only 35% indegenious...so what the hell is india trying to achieve here. almost everything in tejas is foriegn..its radar,avionics..engines..i mean what is IAF producing for tejas..its wheels may be...by a JV with TATA trucks????


I do agree with the squadron numbers you have mentioned..but look at the platforms which both airforces will have..F-16 no doubt a tremendous aircraft and can match Su-30 in an air-to-air fight...but the only shortcoming is its medium weight..that means less range n payload ..the thing that worries me...that PAF is not accepting the strike role of an airforce...in 1965 if our PAF dominated, it was because we were offensive not defensive...n now whenever you talk about a heavy aircraft for PAF....we get the reply we are a defensive force ..we don't want air superiority but only air denial to our enemy...i mean this thinking is the main worry here..in today's world no one uses airforce as a defensive force.

I seriously think PAF need to go the J-10/20/31 option rather than unreliable American aircraft.Giver the US-Indian bonhomie,American will again backstab Pakistan in case of war with India.Plus Pakistan need to beef up it's own production of JF-17 Block 2/3.Chinese and Indigenous aircraft will make PAF much much stronger and in secure position than any amount of American plane.This is just my thinking.

 

[aryadravida_exmuslim]

i am just asking about those simple 4th gen requirements....and as indians have always claimed that they are technologically more advanced than us..why it took so much time to meet just proper 4th gen requirement....n i am sure you are aware that your own media has reported tejas is only 35% indegenious...so what the hell is india trying to achieve here. almost everything in tejas is foriegn..its radar,avionics..engines..i mean what is IAF producing for tejas..its wheels may be...by a JV with TATA trucks????

IAF is producing nothing for Tejas except pilots.

But Tejas is more than 60% indigenous and still growing. I've no respect for most media, Indian or Pak. I'm sure you've seen the data that's often shared on PDF about the Tejas components.

Was the project slow? Yes.
But India, though technologically superior to Pakistan, had basically zero industrial basis to produce an aircraft. Tejas was also about building that base.
Nothing of that sort happened in Pakistan because China did almost everything. So the timeline of these aircrafts is not a fair comparison.

I admit that India sucks in doing things fast, for reasons varying from lack of enough skill to corruption to bureaucracy. But we need to consider a similar project to Tejas if we've to know 30 years is a long time.
Do you have any proposal?
Also tell me three countries that make 100% components for their aircrafts.


These are things most people on PDF know. Just typing for continued education.

 

[ghauri05]

IAF is producing nothing for Tejas except pilots.

But Tejas is more than 60% indigenous and still growing. I've no respect for most media, Indian or Pak. I'm sure you've seen the data that's often shared on PDF about the Tejas components.

Was the project slow? Yes.
But India, though technologically superior to Pakistan, had basically zero industrial basis to produce an aircraft. Tejas was also about building that base.
Nothing of that sort happened in Pakistan because China did almost everything. So the timeline of these aircrafts is not a fair comparison.

.

Can u tell me what is indian contribution in 60%.

Pak also didn't have any base for aircraft manufacturing and that's why Pak entered a JV...because we believe THERE IS NO NEED TO RE-INVENT WHEEL....so Pak worked along with china..and built an aircraft which PAF thought suits her requirements.

India on the other hand went to re-invent wheel and now ended up procuring almost every critical component from other countries. that's the simple fact which every indian is trying to deny about tejas.

 

[ghauri05]

I seriously think PAF need to go the J-10/20/31 option rather than unreliable American aircraft.Giver the US-Indian bonhomie,American will again backstab Pakistan in case of war with India.Plus Pakistan need to beef up it's own production of JF-17 Block 2/3.Chinese and Indigenous aircraft will make PAF much much stronger and in secure position than any amount of American plane.This is just my thinking.

i completely second your thoughts...but our PAF has no such plans...they are getting ready to get more F-16s n get back stabbed again in future.
Sometimes i think PAF is doing it purposely...may be if something goes wrong they can blame US that they didn't help us when we needed.

why do you care if we reinvent the wheel, is Pakistani forking the bill for our R&D and Defence budgets? First worry about building a sturdy combustible engine, before Advising India!

yeah every one knows about indian efforts with Great kaevari engine that's why u r buying american engine now for legendary tejas.

 

[Michael Corleone]

There won't be a two front war (Himalayan passes tremendously favour India on Eastern front, which will be defensive oriented, just like they were in 1971, which was very important reason why you are even alive sitting in front of a computer now - but possible why a lot of you have inherent inferiority complex as well since you owe your basic existence to Dada...and always will).

BD wont even be involved in such a conflict, given farakka will simply be opened....and pilkhanas unleashed front right and centre on much larger scale.

Unsupported, un-networked hypothetical 10 squadron far in the future talk is fun to read about though. I guess it helps to distract from what BD military is right now today. Talking about each 12 plane purchase like its the most important news ever lol.

We weren't talking about a 2 front war involving us oh no mister! It's what india's stand seems to be...
oh in 1971... my family wasn't even in bd or India so lul! And I wasn't even born in bd... so lul... I would have won the race to pen that egg anyways provided my dad existed.

If your assumption about us is wrong even... don't be surprised then if that dampers the relationship

I am also sure y'all haven't forgotten the asswhipping in Himalayan from in 1962... the real reason why there has not been another war against the Chinese ever... even though they illegally took over portions of India.

Even bangladesh is replacing F-7s with J-10... n we will continue to beg for F-16...whether US provides us or not or back stabs us in a crucial moment.

As the bangladeshi members have pointed out that they are going for both SU-30 and J-10....it shows that decision maker in BAF are doing far better job than those of PAF.

1) They are going for twin engine heavy fighters for strike role (but to talk about a heavy in PAF is a sin, we will continue to claim ourselves as defensive airforce...makes me wonder if BAF can go for offensive fighters, what are our PAF think tanks are thinking by denying the need of a heavy fighter).

2)They are going to replace F-7 with medium fighters and we are doing the same thing with Light fighters....just imagine if today Paf was making 58% of J-10 in kamra ingeniously instead of that of JF-17 and inducted about 80 J-10s in about 10 years,what a force would that be.

I am seriously thinking as Bangladesh is outperforming us in economy it might do so in defense too...yes their numbers will be much smaller but their procurement strategy looks quite better than that of PAF atleast.

Bro. Don't worry. Your country planners are thinking about the numbers game it needs to play with India... look at it this way... if you guys went by our strategy... your country is transversely elongated alongside India... India can spread its forces based on numerical advantage but if you guys went by our strategy instead... you would have your hands full... you guys need the numbers too because of a larger area y'all have to defend.
If Pakistan goes f-16 again... big mistake.
I heard china is going to sell j-10 to Pakistan... I am worried if y'all will get the Russian engines though. Unless China has full rights to put them in as much fighter they desire.

It means something if it comes from an intelligent person. You on the other hand are a bad pick from an already bad bunch

One calling himself intelligent is stupid don't you think?

I seriously think PAF need to go the J-10/20/31 option rather than unreliable American aircraft.Giver the US-Indian bonhomie,American will again backstab Pakistan in case of war with India.Plus Pakistan need to beef up it's own production of JF-17 Block 2/3.Chinese and Indigenous aircraft will make PAF much much stronger and in secure position than any amount of American plane.This is just my thinking.

American aircrafts are goddamn reliable but because their is so many third party manufacturers in US. The price tag that comes are shit. And to top of the insult... there are strings attached.

IAF is producing nothing for Tejas except pilots.

But Tejas is more than 60% indigenous and still growing. I've no respect for most media, Indian or Pak. I'm sure you've seen the data that's often shared on PDF about the Tejas components.

Was the project slow? Yes.
But India, though technologically superior to Pakistan, had basically zero industrial basis to produce an aircraft. Tejas was also about building that base.
Nothing of that sort happened in Pakistan because China did almost everything. So the timeline of these aircrafts is not a fair comparison.

I admit that India sucks in doing things fast, for reasons varying from lack of enough skill to corruption to bureaucracy. But we need to consider a similar project to Tejas if we've to know 30 years is a long time.
Do you have any proposal?
Also tell me three countries that make 100% components for their aircrafts.


These are things most people on PDF know. Just typing for continued education.

I have to give it to you. Tejas is a good job by the Indians. Y'all had to do everything yourselves. In that respect it's better than jf-17. But jf-17 is similar if not better performing plane in most areas... and even though china did the first ground work for that plane... now Pakistanis are doing the rest... trickling more performance out of it through upgrades. Yet tejas is still not operational. It would be better if India now scraps tejas and go for a new project and use all the experience they learnt from tejas. Tejas's dev time and shortcomings make it obsolete.

i completely second your thoughts...but our PAF has no such plans...they are getting ready to get more F-16s n get back stabbed again in future.
Sometimes i think PAF is doing it purposely...may be if something goes wrong they can blame US that they didn't help us when we needed.


yeah every one knows about indian efforts with Great kaevari engine that's why u r buying american engine now for legendary tejas.

Seriously don't understand why??? I mean wasn't the delivery halt after the nuke test and delivering virtually outdated aircrafts 15 years later a lesson for Pakistanis? If Pakistan wants to reach its military goals... it should align itself completely with one side.
Either fully china or nothing. I mean if you guys have invested in j-20 program back in the days... just think about it.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

American aircrafts are goddamn reliable but because their is so many third party manufacturers in US. The price tag that comes are shit. And to top of the insult... there are strings attached.

Unreliable in a sense that in any possible conflict with India, American will simply deny spare parts to Pakistani F-16, which will disproportionately harm the Pakistani side.It happened before.

 

[TopCat]

Unreliable in a sense that in any possible conflict with India, American will simply deny spare parts to Pakistani F-16, which will disproportionately harm the Pakistani side.It happened before.

Pakistan buys F-16 with american subsidy. That is why they are interested. Pakistn denied last 8 of the F-16 for market price after congress denied the fund.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Unreliable in a sense that in any possible conflict with India, American will simply deny spare parts to Pakistani F-16, which will disproportionately harm the Pakistani side.It happened before.

Yep. True that.

 

[帅的一匹]

No one is ignoring the influence of kickbacks in India.
But IAF never had the need to induct a light fighter in big numbers before it reaches maturity. And so we have just started inducting them.
PAF had the need to induct a light fighter in big numbers before it reached maturity, to avoid being a tin-can air force. And so they started inducting JF17 long before and keeps making it better in time.
(Though Tejas as a platform is better and destined to always stay ahead of JF17. Like some Hong Kong article said, Tejas is the future and JF17 is the present.)

I said somewhere that Tejas could have gone the JF17 way, but purely for export. Then induct in IAF when it reaches their demands. But a combination of kickbacks and lack of urgency kept the project a slow one.
But none can ignore what it did to the domestic aeronautics industry.

Anyway, no, it's not about Star Wars. Just about a proper 4th gen fighter, which currently the JF17 is not and the Tejas is.

If Tejas is the future, there will be no future for this planet. Look at the short fuselage, it's a disaster.

i completely second your thoughts...but our PAF has no such plans...they are getting ready to get more F-16s n get back stabbed again in future.
Sometimes i think PAF is doing it purposely...may be if something goes wrong they can blame US that they didn't help us when we needed.


yeah every one knows about indian efforts with Great kaevari engine that's why u r buying american engine now for legendary tejas.

Better safe than sorry, USA will not pay for Pakistan's loss.

 

[T-Rex]

No matter what planes we acquire we will only send primary trainers if we ever go for a joint aerial exercise with India. Take a look at the Maitree Exercise.

And we are not going to sign any defence pact!

Did hasina personally assure you that there won't be any defence pact? What do you plan to do after the signing of the pact? You better start thinking because it's going to happen and your hasina apa is going to return home with a smile and her usual sense of achievement.