Bangladesh Air Force

[F-6 enthusiast]

MH-60R (Anti-Sub warfare helos)

Cost : variable (67-109 million USD all inclusive)
There has been some global interest in MH-60R helicopters in recent months. In April, the U.S. approved the sale of 24 Sikorsky MH-60R Seahawk helicopters to India at an estimated cost of $2.6 billion, and in July approved the sale to Greece of up to seven Seahawks along with weapons and other equipment at an estimated cost of $600 million.

The U.S. State Department approved the sale to South Korea of 12 Sikorsky MH-60R Seahawk multi-role helicopters at an estimated cost of $800 million

ideally they should be able to fit in the hangers of the upcoming frigates.

cost per hour and availability.

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/rms/documents/mh-60/8487_MH-60R_SellSheet_Read.pdf

 

[Destranator]

List of AF Equipment that can be purchased from US. (1/?)

Lots of discussion here about US arms restrictions and controls particularly about fighters. its been debated to death here.
BD may sign GSOMIA in the near future. We'll have to buy something from them (this belongs in the politics section)

As @Destranator suggested , maybe non-offensive and logistics aircraft (both rotary and fixed wing) can be purchased.

please note price figures vary from country to country as a result of prior (or lack of ) experience operating ac , training ,support and armament packages

Let's start with the C-130J
Flyaway cost at 62 million new
~130 million or more for everything else
IAF purchase was 200 million/unit
View attachment 836840
BAF already operates the type, saving on training and logistics. MRO plant will be established soon.
BAF already got some ex-RAF frames at a discount. BAF should get the rest (8) airframes after MLU.

have i mentioned these can be used in UN ops ? or to take delivery of vaccines ? its usefulness is not limited to military.

Wayback Machine

C-130J Super Hercules: India’s Workhorse | ADU MEDIA

History was made in India and the defense industry when in 2008, the Government of India announced its purchase of six C-130J Super Hercules.

www.aviation-defence-universe.com

pls add more suggestions @Destranator

Anything that is not strategic or does not require too much ongoing maintenance and spares support from the US.

The US invests a lot in R&D of infantry. We should try getting all sorts of modern infantry equipment with or without ToT. Assault rifles, machine guns, comms and navigation equipment, rucksacks, light breathable armour, Advanced Combat Helmets, latest NVG's, boots - you name it.

Given the difficult terrain and poor road infrastructure in Bangladesh, land battle will mostly be on the foot. Instead of buying useless tanks, we should try to modernise our infantry fast and try getting closer to US Infantry standards.

 

[Zabaniyah]

The main problem with Rafale is that India is likely to become the largest operator once they complete their MMRCA procurement program. Being the largest customer, they could have leverage over the French.

I prefer Eurofighter as:

• it is overall superior performance wise
• India does not operate it
• BD-UK warm relationship

One way of bypassing German embrgo would be to procure German spares in large quantities in advance. Mind you this "no weapon export to conflict zones" is a charade German politicians put up only to impress their constituents. They have made exceptions in the past. German govt would be more than happy to sell spares in advance so that they can both support their industry while also leave room for future charades.

Having said all that, Eurofighters or Rafales, BD cannot afford to buy enough of either to make them the backbone of BAF. We can afford two squadrons at most which would form a strategic air superiority group to take control of the sky, buying time for single engine fighters to come in and complete the clean up.

The backbone would have to be a single engine fighter.
Whatever forms the backbone will have to endure the full length of the conflict through MRO and local production and assembly of spares.

I am not aware of any precedence of China refusing to supply spares when there is conflict between their customers so J-10C is the safest choice.

European aircraft are extremely expensive. Most of them manufacture in small quantities and could never match that with their American or even Russian counterparts. I am not certain if the money would be worth it. And the French are not trustworthy (that's why they don't have many customers). American weapons like the F-16 would provide better value for money. Then, gradually go toward F-35's if money and diplomacy allows. Both are single-engine aircraft.

One issue is ToT which most Western countries are very restrictive about. The only Western-origin aircraft that they do easily provide ToT is the Gripen for which Brazil got a good deal out of.

On the Chinese side, they cannot produce enough to meet domestic demand. Pakistan is the first foreign country to operate the J-10C due to their warm relations and shared interests including outstanding issues with India. From what I gather, the Chinese are fairly liberal when it comes to some ToT in let's say missiles. But buying Chinese weapons would be subject to scrutiny, particularly from India. The first thing they'll do is that they'll run to Washington and start complaining which can lead to rogue variables in Bangladesh's equation. This even though QUAD has its internal fractures with India in particular. There is sufficient evidence to conclude that the U.S. is growing increasingly frustrated with India. Size is not everything.

The U.S. being the largest investor in Bangladesh and a large part of our export earnings coming from there, our security should align with that while maintaining our sovereignty. We also need to prove that we are capable of handling our own affairs and maintaining amicable relations with neighbors.

 

[UKBengali]

European aircraft are extremely expensive. Most of them manufacture in small quantities and could never match that with their American or even Russian counterparts. I am not certain if the money would be worth it. And the French are not trustworthy (that's why they don't have many customers). American weapons like the F-16 would provide better value for money. Then, gradually go toward F-35's if money and diplomacy allows. Both are single-engine aircraft.

One issue is ToT which most Western countries are very restrictive about. The only Western-origin aircraft that they do easily provide ToT is the Gripen for which Brazil got a good deal out of.

On the Chinese side, they cannot produce enough to meet domestic demand. Pakistan is the first foreign country to operate the J-10C due to their warm relations and shared interests including outstanding issues with India. From what I gather, the Chinese are fairly liberal when it comes to some ToT in let's say missiles. But buying Chinese weapons would be subject to scrutiny, particularly from India. The first thing they'll do is that they'll run to Washington and start complaining which can lead to rogue variables in Bangladesh's equation. This even though QUAD has its internal fractures with India in particular. There is sufficient evidence to conclude that the U.S. is growing increasingly frustrated with India. Size is not everything.

The U.S. being the largest investor in Bangladesh and a large part of our export earnings coming from there, our security should align with that while maintaining our sovereignty. We also need to prove that we are capable of handling our own affairs and maintaining amicable relations with neighbors.

Good post and welcome back!

Couple of issues with your post though....

While European aircraft are expensive BD economy is just getting stronger and stronger. Economic size has surpassed 400 billion US dollars and growth is expected to go back to 7-8% range for the medium term again.

As for French aircraft sales, that has completely changed over the last 1-2 years. The Rafale at the last count has around 250 firm export orders from countries such as India, Egypt, Qatar, UAE, Greece and even Indonesia.


While the Chinese J-10CE is available and would be an excellent competitive fighter to face off against Indian Rafale, yes it would make the Indians nervous and they would run off to Washington and complain and BD could do without angering the Indians and potentially causing a headache to USA, where in excess of 10 billion US dollars of BD exports will go this fiscal.

I think the best buy at this time will be a purchase of 16 Mk.2 Eurofighters from the UK that would be more than sufficient to take on the whole of the MAF. India can wait till later on this decade as it is no realistic threat right now.

Buying fighter aircraft from the USA would mean alignment with USA foreign policy - i.e. anti-China which BD should never go down that route.

 

[Destranator]

European aircraft are extremely expensive. Most of them manufacture in small quantities and could never match that with their American or even Russian counterparts. I am not certain if the money would be worth it. And the French are not trustworthy (that's why they don't have many customers). American weapons like the F-16 would provide better value for money. Then, gradually go toward F-35's if money and diplomacy allows. Both are single-engine aircraft.

One issue is ToT which most Western countries are very restrictive about. The only Western-origin aircraft that they do easily provide ToT is the Gripen for which Brazil got a good deal out of.

On the Chinese side, they cannot produce enough to meet domestic demand. Pakistan is the first foreign country to operate the J-10C due to their warm relations and shared interests including outstanding issues with India. From what I gather, the Chinese are fairly liberal when it comes to some ToT in let's say missiles. But buying Chinese weapons would be subject to scrutiny, particularly from India. The first thing they'll do is that they'll run to Washington and start complaining which can lead to rogue variables in Bangladesh's equation. This even though QUAD has its internal fractures with India in particular. There is sufficient evidence to conclude that the U.S. is growing increasingly frustrated with India. Size is not everything.

The U.S. being the largest investor in Bangladesh and a large part of our export earnings coming from there, our security should align with that while maintaining our sovereignty. We also need to prove that we are capable of handling our own affairs and maintaining amicable relations with neighbors.

The single engine fighters will remain BAF's backbone - we cannot let this segment get tangled up in American red tape. The US House of Rep goes through elections every two years meaning the House committees that approve FMS are re-schuffled frequently. Any rouge member from these committees can throw our supply chain into disarray at any point in time.

I completely acknowledge the importance of maintaining good relations with the US which is why I have come up with the "Scapegoat Theory" - I propose we scapegoat the twin engine/maritime strike segment by getting a squadron or two of Super Hornets - the US is desperately looking for foreign buyers to keep this program alive. It is a win-win - the US is happy which paves way for their no objection to us getting Gripens with ToT.
While not ideal maintenance wise, we can then look into supplement Gripens with J-10C to keep India in check. We should start by testing waters by making loud proclamations about "considering J-10C's" and observing US reaction (fcuk India and their "concerns") . If the US remains silent, we should go ahead with procuring J-10Cs.

The ideal fighter jet composition would look something this:

16-32 F/A -18 Block III's
32-64 Gripen E/F's
16-32 J-10C's

Disclaimer: The above is how an air force with brain cells to rub together would think. Don't expect BAF to pull this off.

 

[Indos]

Good post and welcome back!

Couple of issues with your post though....

While European aircraft are expensive BD economy is just getting stronger and stronger. Economic size has surpassed 400 billion US dollars and growth is expected to go back to 7-8% range for the medium term again.

As for French aircraft sales, that has completely changed over the last 1-2 years. The Rafale at the last count has around 250 firm export orders from countries such as India, Egypt, Qatar, UAE, Greece and even Indonesia.

Indonesia only order 6 planes for Rafale F3R and our planning minister is only agreed on another 6-8 Rafale planes for the rest of Jokowi final term. So it will be likely about 1 squadron ( 12-14 planes ). Regardless of that the order of another 6-8 Rafale needs Finance Ministry approval which until Today there is no news about whether another order will be made or not....

There is no F 15 EX acquisition planning either from Ministry of Planning ( according to Indonesian respected source )

Look like as I hope, Indonesia will depend more on KF21/IFX inshaAllah...........

This is about week ago, during Defense SOE Holding event where Jokowi is present

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

Any rouge member from these committees can throw our supply chain into disarray at any point in time.

Not to mention the senate which is overwhelmingly more influential in these decisions.

observing US reaction

maybe we are already testing the waters with the Mi-28 Deal and the abstention vote.

16-32 F/A -18 Block III's
32-64 Gripen E/F's
16-32 J-10C's

why not 2 squadrons of Rafale F4 and 3 squadrons of J-10C
this opens the door to integration with the HQ-9 air defence system, not possible or very unlikely with EFT/F-16/F-18/Gripen due the manufacturers of these types being wedded into the NATO system seemingly to a higher degree than La France

plus J-10C are cheaper , i cant think of Gov allocating enough money to two different western origin fighter types, my thoughts.

The thing about Sweden is that they are more likely to sanction BD than the USA and they cannot give us a UN security council vote if needed.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Good post and welcome back!

Couple of issues with your post though....

While European aircraft are expensive BD economy is just getting stronger and stronger. Economic size has surpassed 400 billion US dollars and growth is expected to go back to 7-8% range for the medium term again.

As for French aircraft sales, that has completely changed over the last 1-2 years. The Rafale at the last count has around 250 firm export orders from countries such as India, Egypt, Qatar, UAE, Greece and even Indonesia.


While the Chinese J-10CE is available and would be an excellent competitive fighter to face off against Indian Rafale, yes it would make the Indians nervous and they would run off to Washington and complain and BD could do without angering the Indians and potentially causing a headache to USA, where in excess of 10 billion US dollars of BD exports will go this fiscal.

I think the best buy at this time will be a purchase of 16 Mk.2 Eurofighters from the UK that would be more than sufficient to take on the whole of the MAF. India can wait till later on this decade as it is no realistic threat right now.

Buying fighter aircraft from the USA would mean alignment with USA foreign policy - i.e. anti-China which BD should never go down that route.

If I am not mistaken, not all of those Rafales were produced new, some were off the shelf (meaning used). Dassault is a small manufacturer, and 250 orders for half a dozen countries is rather dismal.

Myanmar is presently facing a severe liquidity crisis. They do not have enough foreign currency reserves to run their country. Going to an arms race with any country would slowly but surely bankrupt them. They buy ballistic missiles from North Korea and that is sufficient reason to impose even more sanctions against their junta. To attain victory, one must cripple an opponent economically. And yet our esteemed diplomats are not raising this issue in Washington due to some 'friendship to all and malice to none' policy. This policy was set many years ago which may have been applicable in that time period. But today demands a different approach. Appeasement did not prevent WWII.

Numbers are also important. Technically, one can buy U.S-made equipment while maintaining good economic relations with China at the same time. Perhaps even get some ToT as well if we are capable enough. It will bring in investment, knowledge and create more jobs in Bangladesh in an emerging aerospace sector. It is doable if people in charge do their jobs properly. Perhaps also conduct military exercises with the Indians to offset their anxiety. Exercise is good to relieve stress, yes?

This QUAD is at best an informal gathering, a tea and biscuits setup which is likely to fail. A complete and utter waste. If I were in Premier Xi's place, I wouldn't waste my time entertaining them. AUKUS is a real threat though.

In the future they will include Chinese weapons under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA). Russian weapons were included earlier, and that was before the Ukraine war (those were the warning signs). That means they can potentially impose economic sanctions on various individuals, entities, vessels/aircraft and even places in countries like Bangladesh should they buy Chinese/Russian weaponry.

The Irony was that with Turkey being a member of NATO, they did buy S-400 systems from Russia. The U.S did impose sanctions on Turkish entities. But whereas, not a single sanction on India that bought the exact same system. How far are they willing to go I wonder?

The single engine fighters will remain BAF's backbone - we cannot let this segment get tangled up in American red tape. The US House of Rep goes through elections every two years meaning the House committees that approve FMS are re-schuffled frequently. Any rouge member from these committees can throw our supply chain into disarray at any point in time.

I completely acknowledge the importance of maintaining good relations with the US which is why I have come up with the "Scapegoat Theory" - I propose we scapegoat the twin engine/maritime strike segment by getting a squadron or two of Super Hornets - the US is desperately looking for foreign buyers to keep this program alive. It is a win-win - the US is happy which paves way for their no objection to us getting Gripens with ToT.
While not ideal maintenance wise, we can then look into supplement Gripens with J-10C to keep India in check. We should start by testing waters by making loud proclamations about "considering J-10C's" and observing US reaction (fcuk India and their "concerns") . If the US remains silent, we should go ahead with procuring J-10Cs.

The ideal fighter jet composition would look something this:

16-32 F/A -18 Block III's
32-64 Gripen E/F's
16-32 J-10C's

Disclaimer: The above is how an air force with brain cells to rub together would think. Don't expect BAF to pull this off.

India will not remain silent if we buy advanced Chinese weaponry and ToT. You should have seen their reaction when the Pakistanis brought down an Indian MiG-21 two years ago. They will make noise over it. A lot it.

Buying Chinese weapons while maintaining good relations with the West at the same time? The future is looking risky. It is doable, yes. But are Bangladeshi diplomatic corps up for that task? I have my doubts.

Indonesia only order 6 planes for Rafale F3R and our planning minister is only agreed on another 6-8 Rafale planes for the rest of Jokowi final term. So it will be likely about 1 squadron ( 12-14 planes ). Regardless of that the order of another 6-8 Rafale needs Finance Ministry approval which until Today there is no news about whether another order will be made or not....

There is no F 15 EX acquisition planning either from Ministry of Planning ( according to Indonesian respected source )

Look like as I hope, Indonesia will depend more on KF21/IFX inshaAllah...........

This is about week ago, during Defense SOE Holding event where Jokowi is present

I am curious. Why and how did their Congress approve the sale of F-15's to your country? What is their deal here? They don't just hand out such technology to everyone.

 

[Destranator]

Not to mention the senate which is overwhelmingly more influential in these decisions.


maybe we are already testing the waters with the Mi-28 Deal and the abstention vote.



why not 2 squadrons of Rafale F4 and 3 squadrons of J-10C
this opens the door to integration with the HQ-9 air defence system, not possible or very unlikely with EFT/F-16/F-18/Gripen due the manufacturers of these types being wedded into the NATO system seemingly to a higher degree than La France

plus J-10C are cheaper , i cant think of Gov allocating enough money to two different western origin fighter types, my thoughts.

The thing about Sweden is that they are more likely to sanction BD than the USA and they cannot give us a UN security council vote if needed.

I don't trust the French to stand up to India in the event of hostilities between BD and India.
Any Western aircraft will come some form of handicap. Better scapegoat twin engine segment to keep the US happy.

We should attempt to get J-10C's regardless of Gripens.

 

[Imran Khan]

good thing is . in this thread we can find full info of every jet and chopper on earth . which BD did not buy

 

[Destranator]

India will not remain silent if we buy advanced Chinese weaponry and ToT. You should have seen their reaction when the Pakistanis brought down an Indian MiG-21 two years ago. They will make noise over it. A lot it.

Buying Chinese weapons while maintaining good relations with the West at the same time? The future is looking risky. It is doable, yes. But are Bangladeshi diplomatic corps up for that task? I have my doubts.

India will squeal no matter what you do. India does not respect friendly gestures/carrots, they respond to sticks. Knowing Bangladesh cannot be easily run over militarily would have a positive impact on bilateral relations in the long term.
Regarding West-China balance, we have no choice. The civilian and military bureaucracies must either up their games or let the country suffer.

I am curious. Why and how did their Congress approve the sale of F-15's to your country? What is their deal here? They don't just hand out such technology to everyone.

South China sea dispute. Indonesia is at odds with China.

 

[Indos]

I am curious. Why and how did their Congress approve the sale of F-15's to your country? What is their deal here? They don't just hand out such technology to everyone.

As @Destranator stated, it is more on balancing act with China. Despite so USA still refuse to sell F 35 to Indonesia which is due to not make their closest allies in region ( Singapore and Australia) upset. As both will operate F 35, so USA at first offer us with F 16 V.

It needs time before USA is agree to sell Indonesia F 15 EX, which is prompted by the deal between Indonesia and French with 6 Rafale order. Despite so, this F 15 order intention comes from Defense Minister. In order to pass into real order, they need Planning Minister approval, and then after that Finance Minister. So far Planning Minister hasnt approved the plan (according to respected Indonesian journalist/ defense analyst who has connection to both Planning Minister and Finance Minister office).

-------------------------------------------------

Indonesia geopolitically is vital to US anti China stance in SCS. The relationship between two nations are getting closer since 2004 as China started rising economically and militarily. During Obama administration we get refurbished and upgraded F 16 C/D with 34 planes ( much cheaper compared if we bought new ones )

After that we can refurbished and upgrade our ten F 16 A/B in the country where Indonesian Aerospace engineers can get involved as well ( only 2 engineers from LM who supervise the refurbished and upgrade program )

Military exercise between two countries are quite often in every branch ( Army, Navy, and Air Force) since 2008. This year we will have Garuda Shield exercise with involve all branches.

Dont forget American engineers from Lockheed Martin also involves in KF21/IFX program since 2015. Before the start of second phase of KF 21/IFX development (2015-2026), our officials must get permission from US government first.

 

[Destranator]

good thing is . in this thread we can find full info of every jet and chopper on earth . which BD did not buy

We should charge other countries buying fighters consultation fees for doing analysis for them.

 

[siegecrossbow]

China will bomb BD if we ask them to re-open the F-7 production line for the second time at this point when they are considering shutting the J-10 production line.
Honestly, they should just ram J-10's up BAF's a$$.

No the J-10C production line is just shifted to Guizhou.

 

[Destranator]

No the J-10C production line is just shifted to Guizhou.

I read somewhere that PLAAF wants to stop inducting anymore J-10's (hence shut production soon) and fully focus on J-31's for medium fighters. Is this correct?