Bangladesh Air Force

[Avicenna]

Okay understood . Maybe your line of thinking about India and UK relationship is correct , since India is bigger market for UK or anyone because of it's mammoth size of population.

Just a few quick points.

The only Western option that I beleive is realistically possible is the Gripen. I discount even used F-16s due to politics.

But the Gripen should be available, but like what was said earlier by others, I think the Bangaldeshi side is the main barrier.

The Gripens would be useful for any conflict with Myanmar which is far more likely than anything with India.

On the other hand, a Chinese or Russian option should be sought to 1) Increase numbers and 2) Be used if there is any conflict with India as any Western options would without a doubt be sanctioned.

However, such a conflict is extremely unlikely and if it indeed takes place, a few planes here and there wont matter much.

India would be in Dhaka if they wanted to be. Not to mention the nuclear aspect.

Thus realistically, the BAF needs to buy the Gripen and fill out the inventory with either a Russian or Chinese option.

I personally would go Swedish and Chinese and get the Gripen and a J-10C variant.

I would steer clear of the Mig-35 as well as a Flanker variant.

Unless BD can afford a significant number of Flankers.

The maintancence and actual mission readiness concern me.

In addition, I wouldn't mind some variant of the FC-1.

So yea, BAF buy some Gripen C/D with AESA and J-10C.

If not then perhaps get a BAF specific FC-1.

BAF needs numbers as well. I doubt the 160 as per FG 2030 but perhaps approaching 80 if even 5 squadrons are to be fielded.

Current and future air bases being in Dhaka, Chittagong, Cox's Bazaar as well as Barisal and Syhlet.

 

[UKBengali]

Just a few quick points.

The only Western option that I beleive is realistically possible is the Gripen. I discount even used F-16s due to politics.

But the Gripen should be available, but like what was said earlier by others, I think the Bangaldeshi side is the main barrier.

The Gripens would be useful for any conflict with Myanmar which is far more likely than anything with India.

On the other hand, a Chinese or Russian option should be sought to 1) Increase numbers and 2) Be used if there is any conflict with India as any Western options would without a doubt be sanctioned.

However, such a conflict is extremely unlikely and if it indeed takes place, a few planes here and there wont matter much.

India would be in Dhaka if they wanted to be. Not to mention the nuclear aspect.

Thus realistically, the BAF needs to buy the Gripen and fill out the inventory with either a Russian or Chinese option.

I personally would go Swedish and Chinese and get the Gripen and a J-10C variant.

I would steer clear of the Mig-35 as well as a Flanker variant.

Unless BD can afford a significant number of Flankers.

The maintancence and actual mission readiness concern me.

In addition, I wouldn't mind some variant of the FC-1.

So yea, BAF buy some Gripen C/D with AESA and J-10C.

If not then perhaps get a BAF specific FC-1.

BAF needs numbers as well. I doubt the 160 as per FG 2030 but perhaps approaching 80 if even 5 squadrons are to be fielded.

Current and furture air bases being in Dhaka, Chittagong, Cox's Bazaar as well as Barisal and Syhlet.

I tend to agree with most of what you say here.

Respectfully disagree that BD cannot build a formidable deterrent to India by 2030.

Yes in 2019 getting 160 modern fighters seems unrealistic but it is still technically possible. All major economic organisations predict BD economy to remain robust till 2030 and so it is not a question of finance but one of will.

If BAF was to sign contracts this year for two types of aircraft, then there is no reason that follow on orders could not make up 10 squadrons(160 planes) by 2030.

If BD actually follows through on "Forces Goal 2030" then only a full-scale attack by India could defeat the BD military in the field. Since India also has Pakistan and China to think about, it could not really entertain this and so BD achieves deterrence.

Nuclear weapons are off the table because India could not face the international condemnation of using nuclear weapons on a much smaller and non-nuclear country.

We shall find out this year if AL are actually serious about getting 10 squadrons of modern fighters by 2030 as per "Forces Goal 2030". No contract signed this year and then we can say that BAF is dead for sure.

 

[VikingRaider]

Nuclear weapons are off the table because India could not face the international condemnation of using nuclear weapons on a much smaller and non-nuclear country

Right , if anyone can hit others with NUKE , then no one can stop others making NUKE too as self defence.

 

[Avicenna]

I tend to agree with most of what you say here.

Respectfully disagree that BD cannot build a formidable deterrent to India by 2030.

Yes in 2019 getting 160 modern fighters seems unrealistic but it is still technically possible. All major economic organisations predict BD economy to remain robust till 2030 and so it is not a question of finance but one of will.

If BAF was to sign contracts this year for two types of aircraft, then there is no reason that follow on orders could not make up 10 squadrons(160 planes) by 2030.

If BD actually follows through on "Forces Goal 2030" then only a full-scale attack by India could defeat the BD military in the field. Since India also has Pakistan and India to think about, it could not really entertain this and so BD achieves deterrence.

Nuclear weapons are off the table because India could not face the international condemnation of using nuclear weapons on a much smaller and non-nuclear country.

We shall find out this year if AL are actually serious about getting 10 squadrons of modern fighters by 2030 as per "Forces Goal 2030". No contract signed this year and then we can say that BAF is dead for sure.

I think this first order will tell us alot where BAF is going.

If its more of the same old....then BAF is in for some trouble.

If they surprise us somehow with something out of the box, perhaps things are changing for the better.

Who knows....

 

[Nilgiri]

Nuclear weapons are off the table because India could not face the international condemnation of using nuclear weapons on a much smaller and non-nuclear country.

Why would we use nukes against Bangladesh?....a country that lock stop condemns everything bad that happens to India? You are a client state thats spoken for....with a few piecemeal optics allowed to maintain some semblance of independence....which again is permitted to you (by the one that set you up as the country you are now)...not defined by you.

Next time actually shoot down a MAF airspace violator when they are shoving 2 million people into you....rather than just braying about it being the final final final time and shaking your fist....and then going silent when another violation happens and even more of your chittagong illegals shoved into your face.

Actually climb the first rung of the ladder, before you start making plans of how the view might look from the top of the cliff. BD 2030 is a joke. Cant wait for yet more failures and delays this year regarding actual acquisitions (as limited and puny as they are to begin with). BD military threads are always a whole lot of fun....100's of pages for nothing in the end.

Right , if anyone can hit others with NUKE , then no one can stop others making NUKE too as self defence.

Nuclear weapons have already been used against a country that did not possess them. So Bangladesh has no excuse, start making them (according to your logic). Instead you signed the NPT....and have zilch on any basic know-how of the technology. That was "your" decision again obviously. Hence why Myanmar has its easy way with you (combined with you being fearful of using anything conventional to begin with).

 

[Bilal9]

India would be in Dhaka if they wanted to be. Not to mention the nuclear aspect.

Yes they could and granted the Nuke aspect too - but you may be overlooking the Pakistan aspect and the China aspect too. They could take advantage of that situation and I'm sure they have looked into that scenario for wargames purposes.

And what could India GAIN by being in Dhaka (air superiority wise), our role being primarily defensive? As unlikely as that is?

No one does anything without some objective, and what would that be - in this scenario?

 

[Avicenna]

Yes they could and granted the Nuke aspect too - but you may be overlooking the Pakistan aspect and the China aspect too. They could take advantage of that situation and I'm sure they have looked into that scenario for wargames purposes.

And what could India GAIN by being in Dhaka (air superiority wise), our role being primarily defensive? As unlikely as that is?

No one does anything without some objective, and what would that be - in this scenario?

This was exactly my point.

The probability of conflict with India is nearly nil.

Whereas, the probability of conflict with Myanmar is substantially greater, though also admittedly quite small.

Regardless, as it pertains to the BAF, it has to be prepared to defend BD air space as well as support the army and navy.

The choice of type or types to be bought has to reflect these operational objectives and also be effective against the two potential adversaries while taking into account financial and political considerations.

Again, as for India. I can't imagine a scenario in which India and Bangladesh would be in physical conflict.

However, Bangladesh has to be ready for all eventualities.

 

[UKBengali]

Why would we use nukes against Bangladesh?....a country that lock stop condemns everything bad that happens to India? You are a client state thats spoken for....with a few piecemeal optics allowed to maintain some semblance of independence....which again is permitted to you (by the one that set you up as the country you are now)...not defined by you.

Next time actually shoot down a MAF airspace violator when they are shoving 2 million people into you....rather than just braying about it being the final final final time and shaking your fist....and then going silent when another violation happens and even more of your chittagong illegals shoved into your face.

Actually climb the first rung of the ladder, before you start making plans of how the view might look from the top of the cliff. BD 2030 is a joke. Cant wait for yet more failures and delays this year regarding actual acquisitions (as limited and puny as they are to begin with). BD military threads are always a whole lot of fun....100's of pages for nothing in the end.

BD showed India in 2001 who dominates in the infantry area.
Poor Indians died in droves at the hands of the far better BD forces. Lol @ 400 Indian's being defeated by less than 20 BD military.
BD Military has little respect for the skill of the Indian soldier(bar the Sikhs of course) but currently lags in modern fighters and medium range SAM systems.
One MRSAM battery that was ordered will arrive this year and let us see about the fighter procurement in 2019.

 

[VikingRaider]

BD showed India in 2001 who dominates in the infantry area.
Poor Indians died in droves at the hands of the far better BD forces. Lol @ 400 Indian's being defeated by less than 20 BD military.
BD Military has little respect for the skill of the Indian soldier(bar the Sikhs of course) but currently lags in modern fighters and medium range SAM systems.
One MRSAM battery that was ordered will arrive this year and let us see about the fighter procurement in 2019.

@UKBengali ,it's clear from the discussion of some Bangladeshi gentlemen that the possibility of war between Bangladesh and India is almost nil , and it looks they think that India can any time reach in Dhaka if they want either by air superiority or by NUKE, but they are not entering because they have nothing to gain?

What is your opinion about it? Is our sovereignty and existence really dependant on Indian charity? Please write your opinion too!

However if I got the wrong meaning of those messages ( of other gentlemen) then I am sorry, but if I got it correctly then I regret that I posted here to gain knowledge.

 

[UKBengali]

@UKBengali ,it's clear from the discussion of some Bangladeshi gentleman that the possibility of war between Bangladesh and India is almost nil .

It looks they think that India can any time reach in dhaka if they want either by air superiority or by NUKE, but they are not entering because they have nothing to gain?

What is your opinion about it? Is our sovereignity and existence really dependant on Indian charity?

Well if I got the wrong meaning of those messages ( of other gentlemen) then I am sorry, but if I got it correctly then I regret that I posted here to gain knowledge.

Well India can invade BD in it's current state but they will suffer massive casualties in the terrain of BD. BD military and population will bleed the Indian's dry.India is struggling to hold onto Kashmir and BD will be 10 times as worse.

 

[VikingRaider]

Well India can invade BD in it's current state but they will suffer massive casualties in the terrain of BD. BD military and population will bleed the Indian's dry.India is struggling to hold onto Kashmir and BD will be 10 times as worse.

Yes that's the reason India will dare not to invade Bangladesh. And it's not hyderabad state surrounded by india with majority of populace who were fond of India.

Even if Hyderabad was not surrounded by India then it was not very easy for India to annex it. Like Pakistan also could not occupy Kashmir fully just after partition.

So in the case of Bangladesh ( full of 160 million population and most are hostile towards India) it's actually impossible. the reality is India (or any country ) must kill every people they find at there way to reach Dhaka and that's not possible for any country .

It's not AL and BNP , issue where peoples will not come to protest, but it's about the issue of sovereignty, so in this case every people will be ready to die willingly before letting Indian or any other (foreign) army to reach to Dhaka, it's called true patriotism that is not related to any political party or bickering in an online forum by happy gentlemen .

So defence is completely different than such imagination that, "India could anytime reach to Dhaka if they want, but they will not reach Dhaka because they have nothing to gain" . War is totally different and India will show know charity in this case. So for those gentlemen, no need to overestimate India too much ( no need to underestimate too)

So surely we will remain safe and independent not because of Indian charity, but because we deserve the sovereignty.


So still really India could reach in Dhaka even after all strong security barrier ( including willing human shield? I don't think so! ) then what is the fuss of purchasing defense equipment?

Surely we have a vision and that's why we are going to get better equipment, so that we can increase our security against any country.

India is struggling to hold onto Kashmir and BD will be 10 times as worse.

That's why no question of holding it or not, because first they have to get it by breaking every single defense barrier ( including volunteer human shield ( patriot Bangladeshi peoples) who will die happily, before letting enter any hostile (foreign) army in Dhaka to take the sovereignty of Mother land Bangladesh) and need to bear the expense of war, and the expense is unbelievable for them, and they can't bear it.

So the question of holding this territory should come( that if it's 10 or hundred times harder or not) only if they really have this ability to reach Dhaka .USA didn't win in Vietnam because every Viet people was willing to be martyr against the hostility, and what can India or others will do , while every Bangladeshi will be ready to die to protect the sovereignty of Bangladesh? They can actually do nothing .

Bangladesh believe in peace with others, but if anyone start invading with the intention to take our sovereignty from us, then perhaps they will know how hard this work will be!

So indeed we need better equipment that we can prevent any nation ( whom some of our compatriots over estimating!) from disturbing us , not only Miyanmer.

 

[VikingRaider]

Nuclear weapons have already been used against a country that did not possess them.

India also got NUKE and then Pakistan and yet it was not supported by superpowers . Later they maybe accepted,or just remained silent .

So Bangladesh has no excuse, start making them (according to your logic). Instead you signed the NPT....and have zilch on any basic know-how of the technology. That was "your" decision again obviously.

Exactly but with the assurance that no one will use NUKE against us I believe. So this is the reality, India or anyone can't use their NUKE on any non NUKE power, and still if it does and humanity is not destroyed from the world completely, then they ( who used NUKE in war in present day) will be disarmed from the NUKE.

Or others will break the agreement and chaos will start. That's why NUKE threat is not an option in present days warfare ( unless it's WW3) I believe .

And if world war 3 started, the world will not survive , and NUKE will have no use then ( post war) , and we all ( if anyone survive) have to make bamboo stick to fight and later we can move to superior technology ( sword, spear bow etc etc ).

 

[Nilgiri]

BD showed India in 2001 who dominates in the infantry area.
Poor Indians died in droves at the hands of the far better BD forces. Lol @ 400 Indian's being defeated by less than 20 BD military.
BD Military has little respect for the skill of the Indian soldier(bar the Sikhs of course) but currently lags in modern fighters and medium range SAM systems.
One MRSAM battery that was ordered will arrive this year and let us see about the fighter procurement in 2019.

LOL back to the fake numbers and "infantry". Since when is (unprepared and caught off guard) BSF "infantry"... or representative of infantry in the actual Indian military?

If you have no respect for anything else....then don't send your officers for training at our defence schools (where they get the baksheesh in the end to follow orders of her holiness SHW too). It is not our fault that what Bangladesh does is in stark dissonance to what you want it to do (since you are just one of those "sylhetis" that aren't even seen as proper Bangladeshi by them). Why you think Hasina dutifully makes announcement on supporting India on Kashmir...even before we call her? The same Hasina you supported to stay in power .....it gives me immense joy to see you so angry at that.

Anyway it was dealt with in pilkhana, and now your own people (who aren't coward radicalised sylhetis that live in ghettos in the country that commited an actual real famine genocide against Bengalis) know what the long term result is:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bsf-...rom-brahmanbaria-border.597653/#post-11110966

These are just hogwash. After some huff and puff, BGB will arrange a welcome ceremony to accept the Rohingyas following an order from the ministry. Currently BGB has no works other than to exchange sweets with BSF, conducting flag lowering ceremony with BSF and assist the Awami govt. to manipulate the election. This illegitimate govt. will not do anything which may disturb the mind of it's principal international backer.

 

[Nilgiri]

India also got NUKE and then Pakistan and yet it was not supported by superpowers . Later they maybe accepted,or just remained silent .

Neither (India or Pakistan) signed the NPT. Bangladesh did. You will never get nuclear weapons out of your own decision. It's really that simple. You don't have vast oil reserves like Iran to start a grey area either....or openly rebel and leave like North Korea. You are heavily reliant on RMG and manpower export...and are all around a docile people that don't want to start trouble.

Exactly but with the assurance that no one will use NUKE against us I believe.

Only China and India have explicit no first use policy. The rest all reserve the right to strike first against other countries, some are vague about non-nuclear power countries....others are clear that they are considered as potential targets (based on conventional forces) as well.

So no there is no ultimate assurance given by NPT that its signatories will not ever be subject to a nuclear attack in return.

In fact Pakistan for example has not signed the NPT, does not have NFU policy, and has hinted first strike could be used against purely conventional forces. Given the lingering issues it has with Bangladesh (and you with them)....there is not a 0% potential use of "assurance"/"guarantee" level.

So this is the reality, India or anyone can't use their NUKE on any non NUKE power, and still if it does and humanity is not destroyed from the world completely, then they ( who used NUKE in war in present day) will be disarmed from the NUKE.

India wont (explicit NFU). Other countries however can definitely use nuclear weapons against Bangladesh. They have reserved the right to. Take it up with them before signing things like NPT. But you didn't (for the first) and you did (for the latter). One of those countries even used nuclear weapons against a country that did not possess them (Japan). So there is precedent.

Why we are even talking about this is strange. Bangladesh and India will not be having any war and there is no real conventional deterrence Bangladesh will be building up since it enjoys good relations with India in first place (the whole point of engaging in soft power and good relations is you do not have to have large defence budget that soaks up money that could be used for economic and social development).

Or others will break the agreement and chaos will start. That's why NUKE threat is not an option in present days warfare ( unless it's WW3) I believe .

In the end it depends on how you value the piece of paper that countries have signed. How you value their credibility and their word. US for example does not value the word of Iran's (which is NPT member) that highly at all. So this already brings into question how words will be honoured during war time.

Bangladesh would simply be wise to stay away from all of that as far as possible and get on with its economic growth (given your really low energy consumption, lack of credible institutions, heavy corruption and over reliance on just 2 things for economy for example). You are not really anyones target....hardly anyone even notices you (past those that have history with you in some way).

Talking about India needing a "full scale" attack on Bangladesh (spawns of its loins in first place) to "defeat" it (with some vague pie in the sky future projection given BD long history of sketchy low piecemeal acquisition)...is frankly the stupidest conversation ever. We don't and never will. It is the loser conversation of a stupid sylheti....bitter that his people are most ignored among the ignored....the weakest among the weak....and the most cowardly among the cowards. Real Bengali (Bangal) people from Dhaka elite etc, know much better and are far more pragmatic and engage with basic sense of better realpolitik.

And if world war 3 started, the world will not survive , and NUKE will have no use then ( post war) , and we all ( if anyone survive) have to make bamboo stick to fight and later we can move to superior technology ( sword, spear bow etc etc ).

No one is starting ww3 over Bangladesh. Relax. No one even lifts a real finger now as it is for the Rohingya situation. Bangladesh is a docile, ignored, quiet part of the world (bar the occaisional flare up like Pilkhana or Gulshan)...and it will stay that way. Whatever you do acquire is for posturing with Myanmar (whom with 3 - 4 times less ppl, you still wont engage either)....because it stands no chance against India (it simply in the end is piecemeal aggressor training purposes for India, which is why China or anyone else gives nothing top of the line to BD for India to check out). That is not going to change.

 

[VikingRaider]

Why we are even talking about this is strange. Bangladesh and India will not be having any war and there is no real conventional deterrence

Indeed it's very much strange . I was simply talking with @UKBengali and others that what aircraft do we need actually and it led to third world war isn't it?

When we will strengthen our defence then surely we have to take something in consideration that we need to counter any country( including India, if necessary; but that surely does not mean that Bangladesh and India is going to fight with each others, that's simply what type of equipment we need to get for our force and nothing else! ) , and this is the way of defence force and it was a simple discussion and I am surprised that why it became an issue . Let's finish this discussion here because it totally lost it's track and that is unexpected! My question was @UKBengali and other Bangladeshi fellows were just to know their opinion of what airplane do we need to buy!!!
Thank you!
@Nilgiri