Bangladesh Air Force

[bluesky]

that i noticed... xD i disagree with him at those times.... he seems to like my opinion in the group threads... are you in the group?
so they're not BVR capable after all

BVR capability is certainly not a sure success when one thinks of speed running of each plane. Contrary to what people think, BVR (Beyond Visible Range) has very low number of combat success. Here is an excerpt from an internet analysis.

"-----In practice, BVR promise fell short. During the entire Cold War, 407 kills were made with missiles in eight conflicts, with reliable data for ninth conflict, Iran-Iraq war, not being avaliable. Only four saw use of radar-guided BVR missiles: Rolling Thunder and Linebacker in Vietnam, Yom Kippur War, and conflict over Bekaa Valley".

"In total, 144 kills were made with guns, 308 with heat-seeking missiles and 73 with radar-guided missiles. Out of 73 radar-guided missile kills, 69 were scored within visual range (WVR), with remaining four being carefully staged outside combat".

"Even though majority of BVR missile shots in Vietnam were made from visual range, killing was still 9.6%. In fact, F-4 consistently under performed until it was given guns and pilots were taught how to dogfight.
Further, in these 407 kills, most targets were unaware and fired at from the rear, and there were almost no head-on BVR shots due to high closing speeds of aircraft involved. This shows that good rearward visibility from cockpit is still important despite all technological advancements.-----"

 

[Avicenna]

BVR capability is certainly not a sure success when one thinks of speed running of each plane. Contrary to what people think, BVR (Beyond Visible Range) has very low number of combat success. Here is an excerpt from an internet analysis.

"-----In practice, BVR promise fell short. During the entire Cold War, 407 kills were made with missiles in eight conflicts, with reliable data for ninth conflict, Iran-Iraq war, not being avaliable. Only four saw use of radar-guided BVR missiles: Rolling Thunder and Linebacker in Vietnam, Yom Kippur War, and conflict over Bekaa Valley".

"In total, 144 kills were made with guns, 308 with heat-seeking missiles and 73 with radar-guided missiles. Out of 73 radar-guided missile kills, 69 were scored within visual range (WVR), with remaining four being carefully staged outside combat".

"Even though majority of BVR missile shots in Vietnam were made from visual range, killing was still 9.6%. In fact, F-4 consistently under performed until it was given guns and pilots were taught how to dogfight.
Further, in these 407 kills, most targets were unaware and fired at from the rear, and there were almost no head-on BVR shots due to high closing speeds of aircraft involved. This shows that good rearward visibility from cockpit is still important despite all technological advancements.-----"

The examples that you cited stop at about 1982 with the Bekaa Valley conflict. Your talking about Sparrows and the like.

BVR missiles and radars have improved. As have ECM and ECCM of course. But the point is, BVR is probably alot more reliable now than in that time period.

 

[bluesky]

The examples that you cited stop at about 1982 with the Bekaa Valley conflict. Your talking about Sparrows and the like.

BVR missiles and radars have improved. As have ECM and ECCM of course. But the point is, BVR is probably alot more reliable now than in that time period.

You keep on believing what you like to believe. But, tell us what better functions the BVR has except siting a plane 20 km away instead of 1 km. However, BVR has not been able to change the killing result of air warfare, but some ignorant try to criticize our BSF for that reason. I think, our BSF has not yet bought BVR capable planes for the reasons that I cited in my previous post. I do not say, it will not do so in the future because young people believe in fancy technology.

However, you have to give me strong reasons by citing war examples to prove that a plane with BVR is a killing bird. Experience so far has proved nothing of that sort. BVR is only an expensive but non-functional toy fantasy. WVR fighting is still the main weapon for the pilots.

 

[Avicenna]

You keep on believing what you like to believe. But, tell us what better functions the BVR has except siting a plane 20 km away instead of 1 km. However, BVR has not been able to change the killing result of air warfare, but some ignorant try to criticize our BSF for that reason. I think, our BSF has not yet bought BVR capable planes for the reasons that I cited in my previous post. I do not say, it will not do so in the future because young people believe in fancy technology.

However, you have to give me strong reasons by citing war examples to prove that a plane with BVR is a killing bird. Experience so far has proved nothing of that sort. BVR is only an expensive but non-functional toy fantasy. WVR fighting is still the main weapon for the pilots.

Your clueless.

 

[mb444]

তবে কি বিমান বাহিনী সুখোই-৩০ কিনছে না | WHY Bangladesh Air Force Not Buying Su-30 SME?

Defense Update Bangladesh
Published on Oct 18, 2017
Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) Not Buying Su-30 SME Under MRCA Program. Bangladesh Air Force’s Su-30 SME acquisition plagued due to high price asking by Moscow.
Rather Russia wants Bangladesh to buy its new Mig-35D. But BAF is not willing to buy any more Migs. UAC asked $60m for each Su-30S ME whereas they offering it to Philippines Air Force in a $45m price tags.
Bangladesh Air Force currently lacks in needed air power due to aging fleet of F-7BG and some of 8 Mig-29s. Country needs 2-3 more squadrons of 4++ generation fighter jets to maintain air power balance. Recent acquisition of BAF comprises only some trainer aircrafts and utility helicopters.
No new advanced fighter jet has been bought in near past.
Initially Bangladesh sought for Su-35S, that’s too, slowed regarding high-price.
In the meantime China offered Bangladesh a $1b loan to buy chinese military aircrafts includes J-10B 4.5th generation fighter aircraft.
BAF also needs J-10B like jet but it can’t compromise with the deep strike, long-range capabilities too. Hence, Su-30 ME or Su-35S is a must needed capability for Bangladesh Air Force right now.
Russia using this card to increase price. Although, BAF surely wait for the reduction in price.

Hilarious..... anyhow what's the rush? BD national policy is non violence even if invaded .... so what does it really matter....

 

[Michael Corleone]

The examples that you cited stop at about 1982 with the Bekaa Valley conflict. Your talking about Sparrows and the like.

BVR missiles and radars have improved. As have ECM and ECCM of course. But the point is, BVR is probably alot more reliable now than in that time period.

BVR is still unproven imo. BVR results of the Iraqi war can as well be blamed on incompetence of Iraqi pilots. This is just terrible.

 

[bluesky]

Your clueless.

So, your Pundit brain could not find anything to support your criticism of BAF purchases of non-BVR planes. May I ask, why do you believe in that BVR fantasy idea?

 

[Avicenna]

So, your Pundit brain could not find anything to support your criticism of BAF purchases of non-BVR planes. May I ask, why do you believe in that BVR fantasy idea?

Ok genius. Just a few points... The benchmark IMO for aerial warfare is the USAF, USN, and the IAF. Now, the first two have been wrong in the past. I.e. The gunless versions of the Phantom. However, look at all the reports in the air excercies with 5th and 4th gen aircraft. The 4th gen don't even know the 5th gen are there. 5th gen have been DOMiNATING. Now, this as all theoretical and not actual combat or whatever. But the fact is. The USAF, USN, the IAF and a lot of other first rate air arms with means are choosing the F-35 which is reportedly kinectically inferior to its Russian and Chinese counterparts. BVR capability and situational awareness. (Sensor fusion needed in the BVR realm) are key components in all this. Not to mention stealth.

The BAF not choosing "BVR types" has more to do with the inadequacies of Bangladesh/BAF than any kind of strategic procurement plan.

Any thoughts otherwise are an alternate reality.

 

[UKBengali]

Ok genius. Just a few points... The benchmark IMO for aerial warfare is the USAF, USN, and the IAF. Now, the first two have been wrong in the past. I.e. The gunless versions of the Phantom. However, look at all the reports in the air excercies with 5th and 4th gen aircraft. The 4th gen don't even know the 5th gen are there. 5th gen have been DOMiNATING. Now, this as all theoretical and not actual combat or whatever. But the fact is. The USAF, USN, the IAF and a lot of other first rate air arms with means are choosing the F-35 which is reportedly kinectically inferior to its Russian and Chinese counterparts. BVR capability and situational awareness. (Sensor fusion needed in the BVR realm) are key components in all this. Not to mention stealth.

The BAF not choosing "BVR types" has more to do with the inadequacies of Bangladesh/BAF than any kind of strategic procurement plan.

Any thoughts otherwise are an alternate reality.

I agree with your general premise. BVR planes with AWACS backup and ramjet powered AAMs are really deadly.
@bluesky fails to realise that more than one BVR missile can be fired at an enemy plane to increase the hit probability. I saw a program a while back that a favourite tactic that will be used in BVR is to fire one missile first and the opposing plane will make evasive manouevres and so hopefully survive. Then within a short timespan another BVR missile is fired and that will almost certainly hit the target due to the fact the opposing plane is busy trying to avoid the first BVR missile.

One point that I will disagree with you is one on the F-35. The Jews actually wanted the F-22 but the US said no. The UK RAF wanted the F-22 and the USAF said no. For the USAF, it is no big deal to have large numbers of F-35 as they will have F-22s for air-dominance. Even the US admits that the F-35 will be totally obsolette by 2030 when planes from a lot of other countries are in service.

 

[Avicenna]

I agree with your general premise. BVR planes with AWACS backup and ramjet powered AAMs are really deadly.
@bluesky fails to realise that more than one BVR missile can be fired at an enemy plane to increase the hit probability. I saw a program a while back that a favourite tactic that will be used in BVR is to fire one missile first and the opposing plane will make evasive manouevres and so hopefully survive. Then within a short timespan another BVR missile is fired and that will almost certainly hit the target due to the fact the opposing plane is busy trying to avoid the first BVR missile.

One point that I will disagree with you is one on the F-35. The Jews actually wanted the F-22 but the US said no. The UK RAF wanted the F-22 and the USAF said no. For the USAF, it is no big deal to have large numbers of F-35 as they will have F-22s for air-dominance. Even the US admits that the F-35 will be totally obsolette by 2030 when planes from a lot of other countries are in service.

Everybody wants the F-22.

The reality is when nations have a choice between the F-35 or Eurocanards, they go for the F-35. Or both in a few cases. This may be due to political reasons sure. But BVR, sitaultional awareness, stealth are the hallmarks of modern combat.

When was the last time you had an actual WVR engagement in all the conflicts the world has seen in the last 20 years.

The only one I can recall recently is the Syrian SU-22 shot down recently by a USN super hornet.

 

[Bilal9]

BVR capability is certainly not a sure success when one thinks of speed running of each plane. Contrary to what people think, BVR (Beyond Visible Range) has very low number of combat success. Here is an excerpt from an internet analysis.

"-----In practice, BVR promise fell short. During the entire Cold War, 407 kills were made with missiles in eight conflicts, with reliable data for ninth conflict, Iran-Iraq war, not being avaliable. Only four saw use of radar-guided BVR missiles: Rolling Thunder and Linebacker in Vietnam, Yom Kippur War, and conflict over Bekaa Valley".

"In total, 144 kills were made with guns, 308 with heat-seeking missiles and 73 with radar-guided missiles. Out of 73 radar-guided missile kills, 69 were scored within visual range (WVR), with remaining four being carefully staged outside combat".

"Even though majority of BVR missile shots in Vietnam were made from visual range, killing was still 9.6%. In fact, F-4 consistently under performed until it was given guns and pilots were taught how to dogfight.
Further, in these 407 kills, most targets were unaware and fired at from the rear, and there were almost no head-on BVR shots due to high closing speeds of aircraft involved. This shows that good rearward visibility from cockpit is still important despite all technological advancements.-----"

BVR and WVR Missiles can be easily defeated with all sorts of countermeasures such as cobra maneuvers, magnetic and optical chaff, signal jamming, exhaust deflectors, heat shields, magnetic nodule coatings in stealth aircraft etc. They are upping the ante on these things every day. I probably missed half the list of the countermeasures though....

 

[Michael Corleone]

BVR and WVR Missiles can be easily defeated with all sorts of countermeasures such as cobra maneuvers, magnetic and optical chaff, signal jamming, exhaust deflectors, heat shields, magnetic nodule coatings in stealth aircraft etc. They are upping the ante on these things every day. I probably missed half the list of the countermeasures though....

imo the only success against enemies with BVR was against incompetent pilot with lack of situational awareness

 

[Banglar Bir]

Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী BAF has floated tenders তাদের Special Commondo Unit স্পেশাল কমান্ডো ইউনিট "41 Squadron" এর জন্য ২০০ টি 200 X 9x19mm SMG's সাব-মেশিনগান, ২২০ টি 220 X mm পিস্তল and 100X , ১০০ টি 7.62mm Pistols পিস্তল এবং দেড় লক্ষ রাউন্ড along with 1,500,00 rounds of 9x19mm SMG Ammo সাব-মেশিনগান এর গুলির জন্য টেন্ডার আহ্বান করেছে।
১ম টেন্ডার লিংক- http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1684.pdf

২য় টেন্ডার লিংক- http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1688.pdf

 

[masud]

 

[Avicenna]

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3 pairs of Mittens in the air!