Bangladesh Air Force to procure "Buk-M1-2 SAM System"

[JonAsad]

wot is BDM ??

 

[eastwatch]

wot is BDM ??

Actually, I should have abbreviated the BD Military Forum as BDMF. Sorry.

 

[bd_4_ever]

You are forgetting one fact sir,during war with Russia on 2008,Georgia shot down 3 Russian Su-25 and another bomber with this SAM system.Did the Georgians ask for Russian permission to shoot down Russian plane?

It is highly doubtful that BD military will accept Russian mercenaries for operating a SAM system.We are well capable of doing that.I have never heard BD operating with any foreign mercenaries.Our military's greatest strength since its formation,has been the ample supply of skilled military men.Although we never had very expensive toys,we always had skilled men.

Besides,we need SAM any way for air defence be it against India or Myanmar.And from the looks of things,it seems these purchase,if they are true,are targeted towards Myanmar.Its them who started the arm's race by buying 20 migs.

Besides,BUK M1-2 has a max. altitude of 14000m,whereas Su-30 MKI has a service ceiling of 17300 m.So with this,you can't catch Sukhois anyway,someone please correct me if my assessment is wrong.

Leon bro,

What i feel is that if Buk-M1-2 is procured, it will be mainly for the Burmese getting those 20 Migs. I think, this procurement is exactly a counter-decision for that. Migs will be catchable with that operating height of 14000 m and according to my knowledge, it will be far cheaper than getting some fighters and thus can enjoy the numeric advantage. Yah, off course we need birds no doubt but i believe, buying these SAMs could be a short-term decision, just to counter the present threat.

But i dont understand why Migs will be bought, if they are ever bought, again? As you said earlier, it could be a package from Russia or may be, GoB is thinking on both sides. Need to wait and watch.

You are right about the Sukhoi judgement. This SAM wont be able to bring down Sukhois and Burmese dont have those, which again brings me to the point that its just to challenge the Burmese move, for the time being.


Cheers!!!

 

[bd_4_ever]

^^^
Moreover bro, if this is all about tackling the Burmese move....we should be thinking about our Navy, which is in a far advantageous form then our neighboring Junta. And if the news about getting those 2 new frigates from China and additionally another 4 more missile frigate is true, then our navy will be way out of their reach. Their Migs wont be a problem, given the combined defence of the ships and SAMs, and off course planes....as our bordering area is small with Burma, i believe if the SAMs are puchased, they will be stationed near Chittagong mainly....

I am just waiting for the first two frigates to arrive. Afaik, the deal has been finalised. Please correct me if i am wrong. Also aint sure about the others we have. Are we selling them except Khalid Bin Walid??? Please shed some light.


Cheers!!!

 

[bd_4_ever]

A small video displaying Buk-M1 SAM system....courtesy, Russian Army

 

[BanglaBhoot]

The Burmese will not be defeated from the air or sea but by fighting its army which is several times stronger than ours and battle tested. What procurements have been made for the army?

 

[BanglaBhoot]

I also think the Burmese threat depends very much on how we deal with the Chinese. The Indian threat is altogether different.

 

[bd_4_ever]

The Burmese will not be defeated from the air or sea but by fighting its army which is several times stronger than ours and battle tested. What procurements have been made for the army?

The Burmese can be defeated from the air as well as the sea, on both of which we have an advantage....we have trainings/exercises from US navy every now and then....our SWAD members are trained by the ROK Seals, one of the best on Asia....moreover we always had numeric advantage in ships and more are to come soon....so you can do the math.....

Talking about air force, i am not sure about the numbers here and also have no confirmation about our recent procurements...but i think our skills make make the difference....

I am not sure of the army procurements as well....last time i read was about some tanks and APCs in procurement process...but not sure.....may be leon can help here....

And coming over to land, i agree that they have a far larger army....and that hey are tested....but according to me, look against whom have they been tested?? Some small minorities or groups of people, running around in sandals and shorts and someone who has taken a gun in his/her hand just for the sake of taking it??? Their army has never been tested against a professional counterpart like the BA....yes i am not blowing out the numeric advantage they have but we have a far skilled army.....i would like to mention a quote:-

"The human factor will decide the fate of war, of all wars. Not the Mirage, nor any other plane, and not the screwdriver, or the wrench or radar or missiles or all the newest technology and electronic innovations. Men—and not just men of action, but men of thought. Men for whom the expression 'By ruses shall ye make war' is a philosophy of life, not just the object of lip service." IDF-AF commander Ezer Weizman : On Eagles' Wings


Cheers!!!

 

[BanglaBhoot]

The Burmese can be defeated from the air as well as the sea, on both of which we have an advantage....we have trainings/exercises from US navy every now and then....our SWAD members are trained by the ROK Seals, one of the best on Asia....moreover we always had numeric advantage in ships and more are to come soon....so you can do the math.....

Talking about air force, i am not sure about the numbers here and also have no confirmation about our recent procurements...but i think our skills make make the difference....

I am not sure of the army procurements as well....last time i read was about some tanks and APCs in procurement process...but not sure.....may be leon can help here....

And coming over to land, i agree that they have a far larger army....and that hey are tested....but according to me, look against whom have they been tested?? Some small minorities or groups of people, running around in sandals and shorts and someone who has taken a gun in his/her hand just for the sake of taking it??? Their army has never been tested against a professional counterpart like the BA....yes i am not blowing out the numeric advantage they have but we have a far skilled army.....i would like to mention a quote:-

"The human factor will decide the fate of war, of all wars. Not the Mirage, nor any other plane, and not the screwdriver, or the wrench or radar or missiles or all the newest technology and electronic innovations. Men—and not just men of action, but men of thought. Men for whom the expression 'By ruses shall ye make war' is a philosophy of life, not just the object of lip service." IDF-AF commander Ezer Weizman : On Eagles' Wings


Cheers!!!

I think we are exaggerating the Burmese threat while ignoring the Indian one. India remains a primary threat and Burma secondary. As you say we can defeat the Burmese army from air, sea and land. The disputes we have with Burma are multiplied when we look at the problems we have with India. I also think your gung-ho attitude to war with Burma is dangerous and irresponsible. You are underestimating their strengths and pushing a conflict we can ill-afford. We should be prepared for a fight but our threats do not emanate only from Burma. That the Indians should be advertising this SAM sale through BDMilitary forum should make us suspicious of their intent and purpose.

 

[Kinetic]

I also think the Burmese threat depends very much on how we deal with the Chinese. The Indian threat is altogether different.

BD have borders with two countries and you see both of them as 'threats'.

Last I heard both countries are development partners and BD supports India in various international issues including UNSC. Both countries militaries has excellent cooperation, they visit each others country regularly. In recent visit of BD PM also shown a new path of increased cooperation and economic, cultural ties.

Thank God most people in BD don't think like you. Its good to see both countries are cooperating for their betterment.


I don't think BD will ever fight with Myanmar but they should be prepared. But mainly India will not let two of its close partners to fight as well.

 

[leonblack08]

I was never actually expelled from the forum. I never committed any offense in the forum. My IP address is automatically blacklisted by the forum management.

I was banned in the same way.Later on I came to know that they delete inactive members(not active for a month),its in their rules.You can find it if you go through the forum rules.

The main point is,they don't allow free member access to many sections related to BD defence and no viewing of pic is allowed.These guys are pure businessmen,they want people to subscribe to view and read.

If you want to view,then subscribe or just sit like many of us who were terminated from that forum.I don't see your case is different than any of us.

Even bd_4_ever probably got a similar ban..isn't it bro?

BTW,sorry MODs for talking about another forum.Let us get back to topic now.

 

[leonblack08]

Leon bro,

What i feel is that if Buk-M1-2 is procured, it will be mainly for the Burmese getting those 20 Migs. I think, this procurement is exactly a counter-decision for that. Migs will be catchable with that operating height of 14000 m and according to my knowledge, it will be far cheaper than getting some fighters and thus can enjoy the numeric advantage. Yah, off course we need birds no doubt but i believe, buying these SAMs could be a short-term decision, just to counter the present threat.

But i dont understand why Migs will be bought, if they are ever bought, again? As you said earlier, it could be a package from Russia or may be, GoB is thinking on both sides. Need to wait and watch.

I am not sure about my theory is correct or not.But if that's correct,then its not going to help us.
Mig-29s have a service ceiling higher than the Sukhois,although they won't necessarily be operating from that height all the time.They have a service ceiling of 18,013 m.

We need SAMs anyway,because we lack medium to long range SAMs.We at the current moment only have short range area air defence in the form of FM-90.That's not good enough at all.We need 5 layered air-defence,so we need to work on that.

I think its a package,the whole Nuke deal plus all these toys.But I can sense some politicians are actually the only benefactor of this package.Mig-29 definitely is an agile bird,but not suited to budget starving air force like ours.But these politicians are have their way of making money.

 

[bd_4_ever]

I was banned in the same way.Later on I came to know that they delete inactive members(not active for a month),its in their rules.You can find it if you go through the forum rules.

The main point is,they don't allow free member access to many sections related to BD defence and no viewing of pic is allowed.These guys are pure businessmen,they want people to subscribe to view and read.

If you want to view,then subscribe or just sit like many of us who were terminated from that forum.I don't see your case is different than any of us.

Even bd_4_ever probably got a similar ban..isn't it bro?

BTW,sorry MODs for talking about another forum.Let us get back to topic now.

Yah bro you are right, they remove inactive members....i had the similar kind of ban....its in their rules.....and anyways, most of the important topics and information are protected. Regular members dont have access to it. But how much ever pics and topics i have read, were informative....certainly, without heavy connection to the military facilities, one cant get to them....


Cheers!!!

 

[leonblack08]

I think we are exaggerating the Burmese threat while ignoring the Indian one. India remains a primary threat and Burma secondary.

With this small budget of ours,do you think we will be able to procure battalions of S-300 PMUs?Only then our air defence would be strong against "Indian threat".Our current air defence will be blown apart within 1 hour and they will rule our skies.

Since,that's not going to happen,we should accept whatever toys we can afford.Be it against Myanmar,it isn't written anywhere that these arms can't be used against India if they attacked us,isn't it?

We can not match India in terms of military,so in order to term them as "Primary threat",we will need a budget of 15 billion for the next years to come.Which again isn't possible unless we allocate that much money to defence.

Besides,I don't think India ever needs to attack us militarily.They can and have tormented us in great many ways.

But Burma on the other hand is on par with us.Its not a regional power and it does not care about International reputation.And it has all the intention and capability to attack and seize parts of our country.The Burmese junta have shown their intention by reinforcing their borders with new division and artillery.They ordered 20 new Mig-29s.They built new air bases near Bangladesh border.

Anyone observing these pattern will defintely say that these guys are preparing for a hard bargain.If the discussion doesn't bring any result,they will talk with arms.So it is more reasonable that we keep our eyes open from any such attacks.


And even if we assume India as the prime threat,what exactly do you propose to buy with this mere budget of around 2 bn dollars?

 

[bd_4_ever]

I am not sure about my theory is correct or not.But if that's correct,then its not going to help us.
Mig-29s have a service ceiling higher than the Sukhois,although they won't necessarily be operating from that height all the time.They have a service ceiling of 18,013 m.

We need SAMs anyway,because we lack medium to long range SAMs.We at the current moment only have short range area air defence in the form of FM-90.That's not good enough at all.We need 5 layered air-defence,so we need to work on that.

I think its a package,the whole Nuke deal plus all these toys.But I can sense some politicians are actually the only benefactor of this package.Mig-29 definitely is an agile bird,but not suited to budget starving air force like ours.But these politicians are have their way of making money.

Well bro, then may be its my bad facts...i thought Migs usually operate at a lower altitude, catchable by BUk-M1-2...howver, if thats not the case, then what do you think is the reason for the purchase, if it happens??

What do you suggest could have been procured otherwise...??


Cheers!!!