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Baluchistan included in Indo-Pak joint statement.

When will pakistani get it into there heads that the only way forward is to have a pakistani trained kashmiri hezbollah attacking IOK forces........lets give pakistans full support to the sikh freedom movement and the maoist......after that lets talk.
 
When will pakistani get it into there heads that the only way forward is to have a pakistani trained kashmiri hezbollah attacking IOK forces........lets give pakistans full support to the sikh freedom movement and the maoist......after that lets talk.

Yes, that policy has earned fantastic dividends. Lets use some more illiterate pakistanis as connon fodder, pump more money into jihadi madrassahs and give more power to the non state actors. always pays off :lol::lol::lol:
 
Balochistan bungle may prove costly
Balochistan bungle may prove costly - India - NEWS - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: The inclusion of Balochistan in the India-Pakistan joint statement at Sharm el-Sheikh is probably troubling security and diplomatic circles in India the most.

Pakistan has levelled accusations of Indian interference in Balochistan's insurgency. There have also been accusations by Pakistani officials of Indian "activities" in Swat valley, not to speak of their belief that India has "hundreds" of consulates in Afghanistan all intent on supporting the Taliban in Pakistan.

There is a lot of disquiet about the Balochistan inclusion. It was brought up in the security agencies meeting on Friday with strong opposition being voiced by the agencies.

Over the past few years, Pakistan has tried to put Balochistan in the joint anti-terror mechanism with India, which is one of the causes of its inevitable demise. By agreeing to put the Pakistani concern in a joint statement, India may have created more problems for itself -- from being an internal issue of Pakistan, Balochistan may now become a bilateral issue. In other words, every time there is a blast in the Sui gas fields, you can expect statements blaming India.

India may not be involved in Balochistan, but Pakistan now gets the diplomatic equivalent of a gilt-edged invitation to raise Balochistan everytime India wants to raise Pakistani terrorism in Kashmir. India's security establishment has been horrified by the statement, and even top officials have reportedly dissociated from it, a fact that was apparently raised in many official meetings on Friday.

Why did India agree to this in Sharm el-Sheikh? From all accounts, the decision was the prime minister's. He was pretty candid about it. Answering journalists' questions after the summit, he said, "The prime minister of Pakistan did bring up this thing when I said about terrorist acts aided, abetted and inspired from Pakistan's side. He said that in his country people say India is active in Balochistan. I said our conduct is an open book. We are willing to discuss all issues because we are doing nothing. And I said to him that I have been told several times that Indian consulates in Afghanistan are engaged in undesirable activities and I said these consulates have existed not today, they were set up way back in the 1950s. But if you have any evidence, we are willing to look at it because we are an open book; we are doing nothing. Therefore we are not afraid of discussing these issues."

According to sources, the foreign secretaries met on July 14, and a number of times on July 15, with Shiv Shankar Menon even meeting the Pakistani prime minister. But there appeared to be no breakthrough in the talks. Pakistan refused to be hauled over the coals for terrorism, and refused to commit openly to stopping it. On July 16, the prime ministers met for an hour in a one-on-one format, after which they called in the foreign secretaries who were directed to make a joint statement out of the discussions. Therefore, we have a joint statement that actually reads more like a summary of discussions. The crux of the agreement was on delinking the composite dialogue process with terrorism.

The diplomatic spin now being put on the inclusion of Balochistan is this: India successfully kept Kashmir out of the statement and put in Balochistan. The implication being that in future, it will be Balochistan that will be under international scrutiny with all the attention on human rights abuses etc while Kashmir gradually falls off the radar.

Some officials said the Pakistanis could regret putting Balochistan in the bilateral framework. While it gives Pakistan an opportunity to drum up opinion against India or stall terror allegations from India, conversely, India could also use this to ask for international intervention in human rights abuses in Balochistan, thereby putting Islamabad on the mat, if India so desired. In 2006, Pakistan was beside itself with rage every time India commented on the violent crackdown in the province.

It must be remembered that Balochistan did not accede voluntarily to Pakistan in 1947, but was brought under Pakistani domination forcibly in 1948. So if there is a question on plebiscite in Kashmir, a similar question can be asked in Balochistan, said sources. Whether India will play such hard ball of course is another question.

However, India will realise soon enough that it's not only Pakistan that will pick up on India and Balochistan. The US has been briefed by Pakistan on India's "activities" and it won't be long before US special envoy Richard Holbrooke picks up on this opening to draw India in.

The real mystery is the almost complete disconnect between the joint statement and the prime minister's comments later. In his comments, PM's statements are unexceptionable, he takes all the right approaches to terrorism and dialogue. But they are not in sync with the language of the joint statement.

The other problem is the decision to share real-time, actionable intelligence. After their experience with the anti-terror mechanism, India is not about to do anything of the sort. In 2007, India found that information on terrorists in Pakistan resulted in those terrorists being moved out of their addresses within a week. Indian security agencies believe there would be savage "culling" if India starts opening up on intelligence. This was the reason India held back even though the US tried hard to get the two countries to exchange information after Mumbai.
 
Your own dossier denied that any evidence linking Pakistani institutions to the Mumbai attacks was found, and both Indian and Western defence and military analysts have stated that cross border infiltration and the insurgency is down significantly, mostly because of Pakistani cooperation along the LoC.

This is also indirectly validated through the presence of the composite dialog in 2007-2008, under which an agreement on moving on the Kashmir dispute was close at hand. There would have been no dialog or movement towards dispute resolution had Pakistan not shown tangibly that it was addressing Indian concerns.
Pakistani institutions may not so open in their dealings with terrorists, but they do provide the all necessary support in J&K.

These very terrorists keep raising funds publicly in Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi and what is GOP doing in this regard - A big nothing.

Unfortunately you are not returning the favor - while Pakistan has helped end/limit the insurgency in Kashmir, the insurgency in Baluchistan has ramped up. Secondly, the favor will actually be returned when we get back to the position we were at in the composite dialog in 2007-08.

Pakistan had no other option but to reduce their support for kashmiri terrorists, as the worldwide pressure increased on pakistan, not because of some good sense prevailing in GOP.
Still we see these terrorists attacking innocent civilians in J&K and many other parts of india.

For the betterment of relations between the two countries its absolutely necessary that pakistan stop all kinds of support to kashmiri terrorists and if possible extradite them to India to face the law( I know both countires do not have extradition treaty)
 
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Yes, that policy has earned fantastic dividends. Lets use some more illiterate pakistanis as connon fodder, pump more money into jihadi madrassahs and give more power to the non state actors. always pays off :lol::lol::lol:

Well as soon as trouble starts in Kashmir and Indian Punjab, surely the situation will get better in North-western Pakistan. I guess faster you learn, better will be for you. Growing Indian economy cannot afford to have a worst Law and order situation.
 
When will pakistani get it into there heads that the only way forward is to have a pakistani trained kashmiri hezbollah attacking IOK forces........lets give pakistans full support to the sikh freedom movement and the maoist......after that lets talk.

Sorry mate you're a bit late on the advice...guess most of that has been tried and the consequences faced.

If you are still enthusiastic about the stuff, why dont you get yourself an AK and try crossing the LoC...I am sure a gurkha sitting there will reward you appropriately for your self-righteousness.

Does show that some people like you still harbor a terrorist mindset.
 
Seriously; on one hand we have zardari going around the world asking for money and on the other hand you are accusing us of injecting money into the insurgencies you are facing? Ridiculous paranoia at best...

Well you could think of this as the blinding hate and jingoism built up on the Kashmir issue that diverts your resources in to the insurgency when other national priorities exist.
 
India interfering in Balochistan: Gilani

PTI 18 July 2009

ISLAMABAD: Two days after the controversial Indo-Pak joint statement in Egypt, prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Saturday night blamed India for

"interference" in Balochistan and "other areas" and said the document reflected Pakistan's concerns over this.

The joint statement signed by him and prime minister Manmohan Singh "underlines our concerns over India's interference in Balochistan and other areas of Pakistan", Gilani told his first press conference after his return from Sharm-el Sheikh.

At the outset, he showered praise on Singh for agreeing to restart dialogue, saying the Indian leader had shown "political sagacity" and "statesmanship" in realising that talks were the only way forward.

The statement, which has been attacked by opposition parties and commentators in India, in a brief reference to Balochistan said that Gilani had "mentioned that Pakistan has some information on threats in Balochistan and other areas."

Referring to the document, Gilani said it provides for discussion on all outstanding issues with India.

Asked when Pakistan will give proof to India about its "interference" in Balochistan, he said "as and when talks take place, it will be handed over. Right now we are talking about talks."

During his long interaction with journalists, Gilani was congratulated by them for "showing courage" during the talks with Singh and getting Balochistan onto the table.
 
Balochistan bungle may prove costly
Balochistan bungle may prove costly - India - NEWS - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: The inclusion of Balochistan in the India-Pakistan joint statement at Sharm el-Sheikh is probably troubling security and diplomatic circles in India the most.

Pakistan has levelled accusations of Indian interference in Balochistan's insurgency. There have also been accusations by Pakistani officials of Indian "activities" in Swat valley, not to speak of their belief that India has "hundreds" of consulates in Afghanistan all intent on supporting the Taliban in Pakistan.

There is a lot of disquiet about the Balochistan inclusion. It was brought up in the security agencies meeting on Friday with strong opposition being voiced by the agencies.

Over the past few years, Pakistan has tried to put Balochistan in the joint anti-terror mechanism with India, which is one of the causes of its inevitable demise. By agreeing to put the Pakistani concern in a joint statement, India may have created more problems for itself -- from being an internal issue of Pakistan, Balochistan may now become a bilateral issue. In other words, every time there is a blast in the Sui gas fields, you can expect statements blaming India.

India may not be involved in Balochistan, but Pakistan now gets the diplomatic equivalent of a gilt-edged invitation to raise Balochistan everytime India wants to raise Pakistani terrorism in Kashmir. India's security establishment has been horrified by the statement, and even top officials have reportedly dissociated from it, a fact that was apparently raised in many official meetings on Friday.

Why did India agree to this in Sharm el-Sheikh? From all accounts, the decision was the prime minister's. He was pretty candid about it. Answering journalists' questions after the summit, he said, "The prime minister of Pakistan did bring up this thing when I said about terrorist acts aided, abetted and inspired from Pakistan's side. He said that in his country people say India is active in Balochistan. I said our conduct is an open book. We are willing to discuss all issues because we are doing nothing. And I said to him that I have been told several times that Indian consulates in Afghanistan are engaged in undesirable activities and I said these consulates have existed not today, they were set up way back in the 1950s. But if you have any evidence, we are willing to look at it because we are an open book; we are doing nothing. Therefore we are not afraid of discussing these issues."

According to sources, the foreign secretaries met on July 14, and a number of times on July 15, with Shiv Shankar Menon even meeting the Pakistani prime minister. But there appeared to be no breakthrough in the talks. Pakistan refused to be hauled over the coals for terrorism, and refused to commit openly to stopping it. On July 16, the prime ministers met for an hour in a one-on-one format, after which they called in the foreign secretaries who were directed to make a joint statement out of the discussions. Therefore, we have a joint statement that actually reads more like a summary of discussions. The crux of the agreement was on delinking the composite dialogue process with terrorism.

The diplomatic spin now being put on the inclusion of Balochistan is this: India successfully kept Kashmir out of the statement and put in Balochistan. The implication being that in future, it will be Balochistan that will be under international scrutiny with all the attention on human rights abuses etc while Kashmir gradually falls off the radar.

Some officials said the Pakistanis could regret putting Balochistan in the bilateral framework. While it gives Pakistan an opportunity to drum up opinion against India or stall terror allegations from India, conversely, India could also use this to ask for international intervention in human rights abuses in Balochistan, thereby putting Islamabad on the mat, if India so desired. In 2006, Pakistan was beside itself with rage every time India commented on the violent crackdown in the province.

It must be remembered that Balochistan did not accede voluntarily to Pakistan in 1947, but was brought under Pakistani domination forcibly in 1948. So if there is a question on plebiscite in Kashmir, a similar question can be asked in Balochistan, said sources. Whether India will play such hard ball of course is another question.

However, India will realise soon enough that it's not only Pakistan that will pick up on India and Balochistan. The US has been briefed by Pakistan on India's "activities" and it won't be long before US special envoy Richard Holbrooke picks up on this opening to draw India in.

The real mystery is the almost complete disconnect between the joint statement and the prime minister's comments later. In his comments, PM's statements are unexceptionable, he takes all the right approaches to terrorism and dialogue. But they are not in sync with the language of the joint statement.

The other problem is the decision to share real-time, actionable intelligence. After their experience with the anti-terror mechanism, India is not about to do anything of the sort. In 2007, India found that information on terrorists in Pakistan resulted in those terrorists being moved out of their addresses within a week. Indian security agencies believe there would be savage "culling" if India starts opening up on intelligence. This was the reason India held back even though the US tried hard to get the two countries to exchange information after Mumbai.
This paper has gone too far in typical Indian anti Pakistan mentality equating Baluchistan with Indian occupied Kashmir,and chanting stupid claim that balouchistan was forcibly annexed,Alhamdolilah each and every province was rightfully added to confedration,this propaganda to is handful work of RAW however bears no importance,because Baluchistan is Neither a disputed tertory nor it wanted to join India therefore not equitable with Kashmir.And by pointing out at Indian involvement in terrorism in Balauchistan will help us greatly,the next time you come and try to exploit Mumbai tragedy and try to project us as terrorist we too can point out RAW's terror activities inside Pakistan
 
Well you could think of this as the blinding hate and jingoism built up on the Kashmir issue that diverts your resources in to the insurgency when other national priorities exist.

we did support them financially previously; but that came to a stop in the past few years. its not blind hate; its hate justified on the basis of the brutal regime that is suppressing the kashmiri sentiment. let them decide what they want; and no; kashmir is not your internal matter; its a disputed territory for crying out loud.

i'd be more than happy for pakistan to let go off of kashmir if a plebiscite has the vote for it; it has been a burden for us for the past 60 years...
 
This paper has gone too far in typical Indian anti Pakistan mentality equating Baluchistan with Indian occupied Kashmir,and chanting stupid claim that balouchistan was forcibly annexed,Alhamdolilah each and every province was rightfully added to confedration,this propaganda to is handful work of RAW however bears no importance,because Baluchistan is Neither a disputed tertory nor it wanted to join India therefore not equitable with Kashmir.And by pointing out at Indian involvement in terrorism in Balauchistan will help us greatly,the next time you come and try to exploit Mumbai tragedy and try to project us as terrorist we too can point out RAW's terror activities inside Pakistan

I think comparing Baluchistan with Kashmir, is entirely equitable. As someone in your "All weather friend" once said - It is a doctrine of war not to assume the enemy will not come, but rather to rely on one's readiness to meet him; not to presume that he will not attack, but rather to make one's self invincible.
While discussing Kashmir you jump to legalese as you see it and while discussing Baluchistan you jump to legalese, again as you see it. Indians recognise your right to have the best for yourself without compromising, surely Indians cannot be faulted to do the same.
Seems pretty head to head, no!
Ok then how about some quid pro quo.
 
Pakistan gives evidence of Indian involvement in Balochistan: Gilani PDF Print E-mail

ISLAMABAD, Jul 18 (APP): Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani on Saturday said that a whole gambut of issues, including Indian interference in Balochistan was raised during his meeting with Dr Manmohan Singh.Talking to reporters after his four day visit to Egypt where he attended NAM summit and had a meeting with his Indian counterpart, the Prime Minister said evidence was given to Prime Minister Singh about India’s involvement in Balochistan.

“This was made part of joint statement,” Prime Minister Gilani said.

He said that Manmohan Singh is a statesman and there was a realisation on both sides that one single issue should not made hostage the rest of the issues like poverty, hunger and disease confronting over 1.5 billion people of south Asia.

He said the Indian Prime Minister feared another Mumbai-like terrorist attack on his country.“We have asked him that if he has some credible information, then it should be shared with Pakistan’s intelligence agencies.”

He reiterated that the perpetrators of Mumbai attacks will be brought to justice.

Prime Minister Gilani said the two sides agreed at the meeting that dialogue is the only way forward.

Replying to a question, he categorically stated that no foreign country was involved in arranging his meeting with the Indian premier.

“Whatever we are doing, we are doing in our own interest. It was Pakistan’s initiative. Terrorism is a problem of Pakistan and we will fight it.

“If some country gets happy or angry, it’s their problem.”

“We have to help the world in peace.”

Prime Minister Gilani said that Manmohan Singh was ‘very very clear’ in the meeting and stated that “he was not scared and ready to discuss anything.”

“At present we have some trust deficit. If we have more interactions like these, then it will be taken care of,” the Prime Minister said.

He said that Pak-India relations have remained shaky for the last 60 years and there is a lack of trust between the two neighbours.

“When trust building starts, then we can say that we are not threatened,” he added.

Replying to a question, about Afghan interference in Balochistan from Helmund, he said Pakistan’s concerns were conveyed to Afghan President Hamid Karzai during his meeting with him and he assured that the province will not be destabilized.

To a question that the Kashmir issue was left out, he said that the joint statement clearly stated that India and Pakistan will discuss all issues, including outstanding issues.

When asked if sending IDPs back to their homes was premature and to gain publicity, he said they were allowed to return only after the law enforcement agencies had cleared the areas of militants.

“It is our responsibility to give them protection...if law enforcing agencies feel the place is safe, only then we are sending them back.”

To a question if Taliban have been defeated, Prime Minister Gilani said that Pakistan was determined to root out terrorism which was also badly affecting country’s economy.

“It is our resolve not to allow them to grow. They are destabilising our economy.”

About the UN mission in Pakistan investigating Benazir Bhutto’s assassination, he said they are here for fact finding and he will meet the team soon.

The Prime Minister said that his party believes in politics of reconciliation which is also the vision of late Benazir Bhutto.

He said that is why, his party has supported Nawaz Sharif and they have supported them during the formation of the coalition government.

He said when he went to Egypt, he had the backing of the nation and all the political parties, whether inside or outside the parliament.

Prior to leaving for Egypt, he added, he took all the political leadership into confidence and also discussed his visit with President Asif Ali Zardari and other state institutions.

He said that he will take the parliament and the federal cabinet into confidence on his visit to Egypt.

Earlier in a written statement, the Prime Minister said during NAM summit he called for reinforcing the normative framework for strict adherence to the principles of inter-state relations enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations.

Gilani said Pakistan believes that the core of NAM’s efforts today should be the quest for sovereign equality. He said the Movement must renew its emphasis on giving full life and meaning to the immutable principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity, non-aggression, non-intervention, mutual benefit, and peaceful co-existence.

“We believe durable peace in South Asia is achievable. It will be facilitated by the resolution of all outstanding disputes, including Jammu and Kashmir,” he said.

“We were successful in reinforcing the commitment Pakistan attaches to the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM), its principles and objectives.”

He highlighted Pakistan’s perspective on issues of international peace and security as well as on global financial and economic crisis.

He garnered international support and solidarity for Pakistan’s efforts to address the challenges of extremism and terrorism and deepened Pakistan’s international reach, particularly in South Asia.

Gilani said he proposed ways for addressing the global financial and economic crisis - particularly emphasising the need to avoid protectionism, increased market access, and comprehensively reform the international financial institutions.

The Prime Minister called for strengthening the multilateral system and for advancing interests of all states in an equitable manner.

He underlined the need for redesigning the global institutional architecture on the basis of democracy, accountability and transparency.

Gilani promoted the pacific settlement of disputes. Pakistan has already stressed the need for NAM to expeditiously evolve a mechanism for conflict resolution.

He suggested for developing a new global consensus covering arms control, disarmament and non-proliferation as well as access to nuclear technology for peaceful purposes.

Gilani said there was a need to pay urgent attention to the threat of climate change, including in South Asia, in view of prospects of the melting of glaciers. He also called for deepening South-South cooperation.

He highlighted the fact that Pakistan’s commitment to fight terrorism was in its own national interest and reaffirmed the resolve to realize Quaid-e-Azam’s vision of a moderate, democratic and progressive Islamic Pakistan.

He said during the talks with his Indian counterpart, it was decided to delink action on terrorism from the composite dialogue process and these should not be bracketed.

Prime Minister Singh reiterated India’s interest in a stable and democratic Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

On the sidelines of the summit, Gilani also held bilateral meetings with the leaders of Afghanistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Bahrain, Jordan and with the Secretary General of United Nations.

“We reiterated Pakistan’s strong desire to comprehensively upgrade our bilateral relations with South Asian countries and to deepen regional cooperation through SAARC,” he said adding, “we assured the South Asian partners that Pakistan would continue to play an important role in the advancement of peace, security and economic development.”

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Pakistan gives evidence of Indian involvement in Balochistan: Gilani
 
Lay of the flames please and stick to the topic - I'll delete the entire post even if most of it is acceptable.

Discuss the inclusion of Baluchistan, don't troll and repeat the same old canards to flame - this goes especially for the newer members. We have seen this crap before and are not averse to banning immediately if the behavior continues.
 
after going through 4 pages of this forum i can assume that
the point of argument that india is meddling in balochistan is::
1 .. Mr. yusuf raza gilani says so,
2. the i.s.i says so.
3 the pakistani print media says so
4 pakistani people think that the raw is reciprocating for the acts done in kashmir


i will rather ask if thy country has so much of so called concrete evidence of India as whole or its countries state actors are present in the disturbance of normalcy in Baluchistan then they should rather raise it in international fora

and by writer position do these remark really hold in your own country which has freed Md.Hafiz sayeed based upon the "weak" argument put forward by your lawyers even after so much evidence given by the indian goverment which even forced the gop to acknowledge the presence of "pakistani non state actors" in the carnage...

and please it will be better on each and every one part to get the opinion of the neutral media while citing their article..
we do really know how the media work in one owns country to rather create a frenzy amongst the countries citizen .
 

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