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Baithak: Cultures & Colors of Pakistan.

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Chill guys, why be mad.

As that guy above mentioned, selective ignorance cant be cured, but I can try to help you :)

See atleast you accept that Punjabiya got affected by the religions, now tell me isn't Islam based on Arab tribal laws, how can Punjab retain its unique identity if it is subsumed by a foreign way of life.

Whereas Sikhism was by the Punjabis and of the Punjabis, henvce the original culture still thriving.

Yeah people listen to bulley shah etc but not to the extent they listen to real punjabi music. Fortunately Indian Punjab got separated from pakistan one and managed to retain its identity, if Urdu was imposed in Indian punjab it would have affected its native tongue too.

Scraps of Punjab, and you are more Punjabi than us LOL.

Learn your place.

Your Punjab or scrap of Punjab is hinduized.

And what is real Punjabi music?


^

Is that what you mean by real Punjabi music.

You pink turban wearing sardars are the joke of the real Punjab.
 
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^^Oh you are the guy who just said maa-paan and you are punjabi lol....and you ask me why you are called bhapas...rofl

At least Daler Mehndi sings in Punjabi whatever the quality of the music, how can sufi songs with urdu words be considered Punjabi when Urdu isn't native to punjab?

Go listen to Bindrakhia or Gurdaas maan bhape, stop listening to daler Mehndi and you wil inderstand real Punjabi and why your guys tone sounds so funny.
 
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Chill guys, why be mad.

As that guy above mentioned, selective ignorance cant be cured, but I can try to help you :)

See atleast you accept that Punjabiya got affected by the religions, now tell me isn't Islam based on Arab tribal laws, how can Punjab retain its unique identity if it is subsumed by a foreign way of life.

Whereas Sikhism was by the Punjabis and of the Punjabis, henvce the original culture still thriving.

Yeah people listen to bulley shah etc but not to the extent they listen to real punjabi music. Fortunately Indian Punjab got separated from pakistan one and managed to retain its identity, if Urdu was imposed in Indian punjab it would have affected its native tongue too.
fortunately Pakistani punjabi got separated from indian punjabi and we got saved from drinking daroo and getting influences of sikh religion on punjabi :D Its stage now when people assume punjab is all about what sikh do balley balley, daroo piyo aur mathha taikeo gurdawara tey lol

well discuss here

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/123497-my-short-visit-punjab-4.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/member...ce-between-punjabi-spoken-pakistan-india.html

My point was not to compare indian punjabi with pakistan because i know all differences and similarity in beliefs and culture . I was trying to explain his point that ethnic identity come before national identity because it existed long before countries were created
 
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This sikh guy in unaware that his guru nanak was heavily effected by Iskam and Muslims...
Why the arab word 'rabb' is used for sikh god?
Why their monogram looks like 'Allah' in arabic?

Then comes here and claims sikhism as pure punjani religion.
 
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Go listen to Bindrakhia or Gurdaas maan bhape, stop listening to daler Mehndi and you wil inderstand real Punjabi and why your guys tone sounds so funny.
listen whom poetry he is singing



even his challa was copy from this pakistani singer

 
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No takers of Punjabi

There has been a growing realisation in the recent times that language is a significant political tool which is used by dominant groups to take control of marginalised groups. At the same time, language is a useful tool to put up resistance against hegemony. That is why post-colonial literature and feminist movements give central importance to language as they believe that language is an important constituent of social reality that may play a crucial role in titling the scale of power. Language is also viewed as a strong identity marker, both at an individual and societal level.

The Punjabi language has always been a victim of social, political and economic circumstances even before the partition of United India. In India, because of Mughal kings, whose mother tongue was Persian, Persian became the language of power and was used in courts. Urdu was very close to Persian in terms of vocabulary and structure and was mutually intelligible with Hindi. It also had an affinity with the Punjabi language at a semantic level. These multiple associations of Urdu made it popular in certain parts of India in general and in Muslim communities in particular.The British as a part of their policy got rid of Persian language in Sindh by replacing Persian with Sindhi but surprisingly, in Punjab, Persian was not replaced by Punjabi. Instead, it was Urdu that took the place of Persian.

One reason that was given by the British was that Urdu was a refined form of Punjabi. It is a sad fact that Punjabi was never viewed by the British decision makers as an independent language; rather it was looked down upon as a dialect or patois with relatively lower social standard. Why was Punjabi viewed as a dialect and not as a language?

Does Punjabi have no literature? On the contrary, Punjabi has a rich tradition of literature both in poetry and prose. But languages, in contemporary times, are not evaluated on their linguistic merits or demerits. Rather they are assessed primarily on social, political, and economic grounds. The attitude towards Punjabi was essentially based on social criteria.

Another milestone in the history of the Punjabi language was the Pakistan movement where three languages Hindi, Urdu, and Punjabi were used as identity markers for the three major population groups of India, i.e. Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs. In this simplistic divide of languages (which was largely political in nature), Punjabi was the biggest casualty. A large number of Muslims whose mother tongue was Punjabi deserted it on political grounds as Punjabi was viewed as the language of Sikhs.

After independence in 1947, the question of national language was raised and Urdu, which was a minority language, was given the status of national language. The two overwhelmingly majority languages i.e., Bengali, and Punjabi were totally ignored. There was a powerful protest from Bengali people but there was no voice heard in favour of Punjabi by the Punjabi population. One important reason for this was that Punjab had a large share in the army and was close to power centres. Having a good share in army and bureaucracy, the Punjabi elite wanted to be a part of the mainstream powerful groups and in the process deserted their own language, Punjabi. It is surprising that Sindhi is taught in schools as a subject. Similarly Pashto is taught as a subject in some schools in KP. But Punjabi has never been a part of school education in Pakistan. Why is it so? Is there something inherently wrong with Punjabi?

It’s the social attitude of people that have associated Punjabi with informal and insignificant linguistic functions in life. The language desertion phenomenon is so visible in Punjabi urban families where parents speak with their children in Urdu which is considered to be a prestigious language. Another weakening factor for Punjabi is its low pragmatic value in terms of getting jobs on market. This factor is strengthened as Punjabi does not get any support from educational institutions.It is feared that a large number of families from Punjab would lose Punjabi language in a couple of generations. There are a number of researches available about the significant role of mother tongue in early education. If we want to reclaim Punjabi language, the first step is to provide it educational backing by teaching Punjabi as a subject in schools in Punjab. Also, there is a need of official patronage at least at the provincial level for the promotion of language.

It is important to note that the Constitution of Pakistan, Article 251, clearly states about the potential measures of teaching and promotion of a provincial language, “Without prejudice to the status of the national language, a provincial assembly may by law prescribe measures for the teaching, promotion and use of language in addition to the national language.” The Khyber Pakhtunkhwa assembly has passed a bill declaring five local languages as educational languages. This is a welcome initiative. Can Punjab Assembly pass some bill for the teaching and promotion of Punjabi in the province? The writer is Professor & Director of Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences at Lahore School of Economics and author of Rethinking Education in Pakistan.

He may be contacted at shahidksiddiqui@yahoo.com

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...s/208447-no-takers-punjabi.html#ixzz2G1D96FKi
 
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No takers of Punjabi

There has been a growing realisation in the recent times that language is a significant political tool which is used by dominant groups to take control of marginalised groups. At the same time, language is a useful tool to put up resistance against hegemony. That is why post-colonial literature and feminist movements give central importance to language as they believe that language is an important constituent of social reality that may play a crucial role in titling the scale of power. Language is also viewed as a strong identity marker, both at an individual and societal level.

The Punjabi language has always been a victim of social, political and economic circumstances even before the partition of United India. In India, because of Mughal kings, whose mother tongue was Persian, Persian became the language of power and was used in courts. Urdu was very close to Persian in terms of vocabulary and structure and was mutually intelligible with Hindi. It also had an affinity with the Punjabi language at a semantic level. These multiple associations of Urdu made it popular in certain parts of India in general and in Muslim communities in particular.The British as a part of their policy got rid of Persian language in Sindh by replacing Persian with Sindhi but surprisingly, in Punjab, Persian was not replaced by Punjabi. Instead, it was Urdu that took the place of Persian.

One reason that was given by the British was that Urdu was a refined form of Punjabi. It is a sad fact that Punjabi was never viewed by the British decision makers as an independent language; rather it was looked down upon as a dialect or patois with relatively lower social standard. Why was Punjabi viewed as a dialect and not as a language?

Does Punjabi have no literature? On the contrary, Punjabi has a rich tradition of literature both in poetry and prose. But languages, in contemporary times, are not evaluated on their linguistic merits or demerits. Rather they are assessed primarily on social, political, and economic grounds. The attitude towards Punjabi was essentially based on social criteria.

Another milestone in the history of the Punjabi language was the Pakistan movement where three languages Hindi, Urdu, and Punjabi were used as identity markers for the three major population groups of India, i.e. Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs. In this simplistic divide of languages (which was largely political in nature), Punjabi was the biggest casualty. A large number of Muslims whose mother tongue was Punjabi deserted it on political grounds as Punjabi was viewed as the language of Sikhs.

After independence in 1947, the question of national language was raised and Urdu, which was a minority language, was given the status of national language. The two overwhelmingly majority languages i.e., Bengali, and Punjabi were totally ignored. There was a powerful protest from Bengali people but there was no voice heard in favour of Punjabi by the Punjabi population. One important reason for this was that Punjab had a large share in the army and was close to power centres. Having a good share in army and bureaucracy, the Punjabi elite wanted to be a part of the mainstream powerful groups and in the process deserted their own language, Punjabi. It is surprising that Sindhi is taught in schools as a subject. Similarly Pashto is taught as a subject in some schools in KP. But Punjabi has never been a part of school education in Pakistan. Why is it so? Is there something inherently wrong with Punjabi?

It’s the social attitude of people that have associated Punjabi with informal and insignificant linguistic functions in life. The language desertion phenomenon is so visible in Punjabi urban families where parents speak with their children in Urdu which is considered to be a prestigious language. Another weakening factor for Punjabi is its low pragmatic value in terms of getting jobs on market. This factor is strengthened as Punjabi does not get any support from educational institutions.It is feared that a large number of families from Punjab would lose Punjabi language in a couple of generations. There are a number of researches available about the significant role of mother tongue in early education. If we want to reclaim Punjabi language, the first step is to provide it educational backing by teaching Punjabi as a subject in schools in Punjab. Also, there is a need of official patronage at least at the provincial level for the promotion of language.

It is important to note that the Constitution of Pakistan, Article 251, clearly states about the potential measures of teaching and promotion of a provincial language, “Without prejudice to the status of the national language, a provincial assembly may by law prescribe measures for the teaching, promotion and use of language in addition to the national language.” The Khyber Pakhtunkhwa assembly has passed a bill declaring five local languages as educational languages. This is a welcome initiative. Can Punjab Assembly pass some bill for the teaching and promotion of Punjabi in the province? The writer is Professor & Director of Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences at Lahore School of Economics and author of Rethinking Education in Pakistan.

He may be contacted at shahidksiddiqui@yahoo.com

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...s/208447-no-takers-punjabi.html#ixzz2G1D96FKi

I disagree with this article. Most Punjabis in Pakistan are bi, if not tri-lingual.
 
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that's what you observe here . monkey having pride in pashtun roots because he was born in that ethnicity and KS having pride in Tamil ethnicity because he got stuck there so choice would be there if they had ability to choose their ethnicity or had ability to change it but they cannot.



My point is taking pride in ethnicity make as much sense as having pride in existence, pride in height, pride in gender, sexual orientation, colour, race etc. Its perfectly fine to be pleased with these things but pride make sense only for those things which you have achieved through your personal efforts or hardwork. These things we don't choose for ourselves so no reason for us to have pride in them. When i keep pride in one ethnicity it automatically suggest that i give more importance to my ethnicity over others otherwise they all would be equal to me. All ethnicity have got good and bad guys, warriors, heroes ,villains, intelligent, dumb people so having pride in one ethnicity just because you happened to born there don't make sense to me. You guys may disagree and continue

Well the difference is unlike you they don't believe they got stuck in their ethnicity.They don't want to change.Its a pleasure and satisfaction what you have is some thing good.Its a form of self respect,a sense of belonging.That's what it all about.He doesn't regret of not been able to born somewhere else unlike I suspect you do.


Religion is not same as ethnicity. Religion is a belief system and you have to accept and agree with these beliefs and have to practice them then it would make you a religious person. people can change their beliefs from religious to agnostic or atheist or from atheist to religious but you cannot change your race and ethnicity. Islam is also against this pride of thinking yourself more pious than others.

Blah Blah,Why would some have to accept or agree to religion.What is the main reason some one have to do it???
 
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Blah Blah,Why would some have to accept or agree to religion.What is the main reason some one have to do it???

In Pakistan we are Proud muslims and shout it out loud.
In India you are ashamed Hindus who hide behind atheism and too shy of admitting your hindu beleifs.
In Europe they are confused christians and ex christians
Thats the difference between you and us.
Thats why your stance on religion and ours are totally different,and you cant understand our concepts about our religion and why it is important to us.
You are posing like am atheist,but your atheism is limited to denunking every other religion except Hinduism. If i speak something against Hinduism you wont like it.
So please take you two faced bigotry elsewhere.
This thread isnt about religion anyway.
 
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In Pakistan we are Proud muslims and shout it out loud.
In India you are ashamed Hindus who hide behind atheism and too shy of admitting your hindu beleifs.
Thats the difference between you and us.
Thats why your stance on religion and ours are totally different,and you cant understand our concepts about our religion and why it is important to us.
You are posing like am atheist,but your atheism is limited to denunking every other religion except Islam. If i speak something against Hinduism you wont like it.
So please take you two faced bigotry elsewhere.
This thread isnt about religion anyway.

Hey hey,Hold your horses cowboy,Where the hell did you come from,I wasn't even talking to you.I don't follow Hindu beliefs because I am Athiest.But I do admire Hindu Philosophies especially atheistic ones again because I am atheist.Same goes for Buddhist and Jainism Philosophies because they are all atheistic in nature.

I don't give a flying F**k about rest of BS.But I do like to point out,You also don't seems to understand some concepts in your religion either,Some one hear was telling me pride is a sin in Islam,So mind your pride.
 
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Hey hey,Hold your horses cowboy,Where the hell did you come from,I wasn't even talking to you.I don't follow Hindu beliefs because I am Athiest.But I do admire Hindu Philosophies especially atheistic ones again because I am atheist.Same goes for Buddhist and Jainism Philosophies because they are all atheistic in nature.

I don't give a flying F**k about rest of BS.Besides some one was telling me Pride is a sin in Islam,So mind your Pride.

Typical 'closet hindu' response.
 
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Well the difference is unlike you they don't believe they got stuck in their ethnicity.They don't want to change.Its a pleasure and satisfaction what you have is some thing good.Its a form of self respect,a sense of belonging.That's what it all about.He doesn't regret of not been able to born somewhere else unlike I suspect you do.

I think you dont have brain to comprehend my simple point. You said they dont want to change. I said they cannot change that's why i used word stuck. It was their fate to be born in that ethnicity. You are relating self respect with pride when they are two different thing. To content or pleased with whatever race/ethncity/colour you belong is one thing and to show pride in your race/color/ethnicity is another but your tiny brain cannot comprehend this simple point. Next youd woul start having pride in your existence, colour and height and others such pointless things

Blah Blah,Why would some have to accept or agree to religion.What is the main reason some one have to do it???

Again i dont think you are the right guy for such discussion. I have no clue what you are talking about . I said its choice to be religious guy so religion is a choice unlike ethnicity which you cannot change and is written on stone. Next time try to understand points before jumping towards reply
 
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Typical 'closet hindu' response.


I have noticed that hindus are tricky creatures.

Sometimes they call us invaders, sometimes they call us the invaded.

Sometimes they are proud of being Hindu, other times they proud of being atheist.

Sometimes, they are proud of Hindu dominance in India, while other times they are proud of being secular.


Basically, they are the biggest bull shitters in the world.
 
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