BAE Pulls Out of Joint Venture With India’s Mahindra

[sancho]

@sancho will this affect the IA's plans for FICV and SPG/SPH?

Depends on which other alternatives are left other than TATA/Rheinmetall, if it ends up as a single vendor competition again and that with a partner that is paritially banned, who knows what will happen? But the Mahindra/BAE/Rafael mix was clearly the most capable choice!

Learn from China and self reliant.

We do have to learn from China on how to do things simple and easy, but not on beeing self reliant, because they aren't either! Most of what they have is Russian, most helicopters are licence produced European or Russian once, they are highly dependent on Russia on engines for fighters and aircrafts and I don't have to mention how dependent they are wrt design.
However, they have to look at what is possible for them and we have to look at what is possible for us and if we want to catch up with them and to defend ourselfs against them, we need foreign stuff. Preferably as part of JVs and co-developments, in some fields as procurements.

 

[Screambowl]

I know. But re read what you wrote. CHina has no help, no access and still made it happen. Whereas India has the help, the access, etc. but cannot. Why does the govt push the domestic private players away?

because India is not serious. We fantasize more about west.

PS: manmohan singh is an economist he brought great reforms now we need a scientist or engineer to be the PM to bring Industrial reforms.

 

[sancho]

sir ji, can you tell me how many equipments in HAL or any other Plants are built in India.

That is what I am talking about.

As I already said, fighters, helicopters, transport aircrafts, fighter engines, airframe parts for foreign fighters or civil aircrafts and so on. Not a big deal, but developing an own fighter or even a trainer, not that easy as it seems!

Research and development is a different issue are more related to intellectual world but one simple question, is there any company in India which can produce Iphones if given license?

You do know that the Iphones are produced in China, by 100000 Chinese, mainly hand made without high machinery to reduce the costs right (if not google for Foxconn)?
And R&D is not a different issue, but the core problem! We think we can develop an own fighter engine and radar, but thinking alone is not enough. With propper R&D and the necessary experience we will be able to do it in future, but it was simply nuts to believe we could have done it for LCA back then.

 

[Screambowl]

That is what I am talking about.

As I already said, fighters, helicopters, transport aircrafts, fighter engines, airframe parts for foreign fighters or civil aircrafts and so on. Not a big deal, but developing an own fighter or even a trainer, not that easy as it seems!




You do know that the Iphones are produced in China, by 100000 Chinese, mainly hand made without high machinery to reduce the costs right (if not google for Foxconn)?
And R&D is not a different issue, but the core problem! We think we can develop an own fighter engine and radar, but thinking alone is not enough. With propper R&D and the necessary experience we will be able to do it in future, but it was simply nuts to believe we could have done it for LCA back then.

in 60 years what have we learnt about engines then. We have bought sukhois, we have migs, we have jaguars, harriers don't you think that is enough help to start our research with good out comes. I do not appreciate China but they can produce a duplicate I phone that is for sure, can India do that? Because I phone is so complex that just one person cannot make it. Its circuit comes from other place, LED, capacitors, etc etc.. different place but mixing them all together to make an I phone is the point.

 

[sancho]

in 60 years what have we learnt about engines then. We have bought sukhois, we have migs, we have jaguars, harriers don't you think that is enough help to start our research with good out comes.

If it would be that easy, why does China have so much trouble developing their own engines? They have the same access to Russian engine for a long time as well, they are investing much more money in their industry and still are facing similar difficulties, because R&D needs time, experince and constant improvement of knowledge. They will surpass even western countries someday, no doubt about that, but it will still take time and huge ammounts of money. We are even further behind and have less money then they have, that's why we should take other advantages to improve ourselfs => our access to foreign industries!

Btw, what many people also forget, of these 60 years, we had around 40 years where we had no access to foreign industries, weapons or techs at all. Nobody sold us good stuff and we had to take what they were ready to provide us under their conditions. That changed only in the last 2 decades or so, thanks to economical reforms and political changes. That is why we are benefitting a lot as of now, but as an industrial nation, we still ar at the begining in many fields!

I do not appreciate China but they can produce a duplicate I phone that is for sure, can India do that? Because I phone is so complex that just one person cannot make it. Its circuit comes from other place, LED, capacitors, etc etc.. different place but mixing them all together to make an I phone is the point.

I highly appreciate Chinas industrial capability, but I also see the problems they have with R&D and the advantages we have with our good foreign relation policy. That's why I say, we don't have to be like China and simply be India and go our way, but that doesn't mean alone, because we have many friends to help us on this way!

What do you prefer, a car made in China that looks similar to a BMW, but with less quality, or a Jaguar that is owned by TATA, which remains a high quality sports car, but offers us the possibility to learn and improve ourself too?

Bye for now!

 

[Dash]

To tell you all the truth. Foreign majors have a big fear that Indians will not buy any desk stuff and they will get blacklisted anytime. This system is crap. Run......

 

[Screambowl]

To tell you all the truth. Foreign majors have a big fear that Indians will not buy any desk stuff and they will get blacklisted anytime. This system is crap. Run......

Ministry of Industry is lazy,

Home Minister is always speaking out controversial comments.

BJP is busy fighting among themselves

Karat licks the Chinese arse

mamta banerjee never comes to a point when it comes to development and TMC and CPI is in tug war.

Kashmir is still under insurgency

Black money, corruption

R&D has no existence in this country

No one gives a damn about these problems.

 

[Screambowl]

If it would be that easy, why does China have so much trouble developing their own engines? They have the same access to Russian engine for a long time as well, they are investing much more money in their industry and still are facing similar difficulties, because R&D needs time, experince and constant improvement of knowledge. They will surpass even western countries someday, no doubt about that, but it will still take time and huge ammounts of money. We are even further behind and have less money then they have, that's why we should take other advantages to improve ourselfs => our access to foreign industries!


Btw, what many people also forget, of these 60 years, we had around 40 years where we had no access to foreign industries, weapons or techs at all. Nobody sold us good stuff and we had to take what they were ready to provide us under their conditions. That changed only in the last 2 decades or so, thanks to economical reforms and political changes. That is why we are benefitting a lot as of now, but as an industrial nation, we still ar at the begining in many fields!



I highly appreciate Chinas industrial capability, but I also see the problems they have with R&D and the advantages we have with our good foreign relation policy. That's why I say, we don't have to be like China and simply be India and go our way, but that doesn't mean alone, because we have many friends to help us on this way!

What do you prefer, a car made in China that looks similar to a BMW, but with less quality, or a Jaguar that is owned by TATA, which remains a high quality sports car, but offers us the possibility to learn and improve ourself too?

Bye for now!

You are absolutely right China did it with sanctions we are still unable to do it without sanctions. This means there is some problem in planning and no where else.

One example I give you. India could have brought French technology into railways but no they did not know how to do what to do bloody failed planners. 5 years back the delegation went to germany then to Japan to learn about super fast trains but zero progress. After IIT if they do MBA or become IAS with non technical subjects this will be the result. If you give more importance to IAS in the field of technology rather than IES such blunders will happen today will happen tomorrow also.

My point is we could have got a lot of things and started long time back to upgrade our industries not just IT but hardware too so atleast we do some production and earn money because IT need engineers and hardware needs labor but this was not done. Now we have to spend on both Industries and R and D. bera gark kar ke rakh dia hai.

 

[Bang Galore]

Am I the only one sceptical of the reason being that the future for BAE systems looks less bright in India? What was the investment amount anyway? My gut feeling is that this a corporate break up with Mahindra, BAE aren't going to go anywhere. Simply makes no sense otherwise.

 

[Koovie]

Thats a bad loss for our local defense industry, we desperately need the technology and experience from these firms to boost our local industries.

 

[帅的一匹]

The problem of India always lagging behind is you give Almost all the tasks to DRDO. Why set up two DRDOs for competition?

The industrial base of China is super large, most complete ones maybe not the best.

 

[Screambowl]

The problem of India always lagging behind is you give Almost all the tasks to DRDO. Why set up two DRDOs for competition?

The industrial base of China is super large, most complete ones maybe not the best.

DRDO does the same. it distributes the task to other establishment only.

 

[Screambowl]

Am I the only one sceptical of the reason being that the future for BAE systems looks less bright in India? What was the investment amount anyway? My gut feeling is that this a corporate break up with Mahindra, BAE aren't going to go anywhere. Simply makes no sense otherwise.

we should not stop if one company leaves. There is no scarcity of sellers on the market.