Babur Cruise Missile - Database

[Bratva]

Not exactly. That range figure is less than that due to certain changes in design and size; and the launch methods arent so sophisticated for now(although that will change). However, the move is now beyond a SLCM and towards a SLBM.

SPD should take a leaf out of Indian boasting strategy and should fire whatever slcm they developed from pontoon . Just as the unexpected and surprised launch of Babur LACM in August 2005, though it took 8 years afterwards to complete the development and ope-rationalize it.

If we are thinking about the time line, LACM project started somewhere in 1999, matured in 2005. Made Became Operational in 2012-2013

Now similarly, SLCM project started somewhere around 2009-2010. Its been 6-7 years now So it should what is good for the goose should be good for the gander as well.

 

[SQ8]

SPD should take a leaf out of Indian boasting strategy and should fire whatever slcm they developed from pontoon . Just as the unexpected and surprised launch of Babur LACM in August 2005, though it took 8 years afterwards to complete the development and ope-rationalize it.

If we are thinking about the time line, LACM project started somewhere in 1999, matured in 2005. Made Became Operational in 2012-2013

Now similarly, SLCM project started somewhere around 2009-2010. Its been 6-7 years now So it should what is good for the goose should be good for the gander as well.

Why should they worry about a SLCM design and testing when we can get the blueprints straight out of China, modify it to our needs and then test it?
That saves us tens of millions in costs.

 

[Bratva]

So you mean that the stated range is wrong? That we should be using the Chinese engine that would give us better range and the claims of 700 KM are wrong? If that is the case, i doubt i will be able to help you much as that is a published fact and if it is a coverup you wont find many talking about the reality.


What about Babur?
As far as i was able to study it this is the same we are using for Babur. You have any further details?
There were some things being worked on related to engine as well but not sure what happened to that since i moved from Taxila two years ago and was better informed when i was there
If you have anything that can be shared i will be happy to know about it.

Nah more or less the same details that you have

The problem is inefficient or what they say, Gas guzzling engine. Chinese somehow provided them the early model of engines, If I'm not wrong since project was initated in 1999. And it seems NESCOM has been trying to upgrade the engine inhouse instead of depending on China to provide upgraded engine models.

Why should they worry about a SLCM design and testing when we can get the blueprints straight out of China, modify it to our needs and then test it?
That saves us tens of millions in costs.

Perhaps, some nerds at the NESCOM decide that no more cheating, it is time to show our collective genius to world and make some dhotis wet in the process ?

 

[SQ8]

Perhaps, some nerds at the NESCOM decide that no more cheating, it is time to show our collective genius to world and make some dhotis wet in the process ?

ill reiterate this again(and again where I have to):

Pakistan only spends R&D where it cannot source the material or where there is a chance the material may have a unreliable supplier.

 

[Blue Marlin]

ill reiterate this again(and again where I have to):

Pakistan only spends R&D where it cannot source the material or where there is a chance the material may have a unreliable supplier.

thats only in the feild of strategic weapons then

 

[SQ8]

thats only in the feild of strategic weapons then

Every weapon.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Every weapon.

depends on how you define everything. what about the c802 or sd-10? or have you been tweeking them to violate the mtcr? (in the case of the c802 and the c602)

 

[SQ8]

depends on how you define everything. what about the c802 or sd-10? or have you been tweeking them to violate the mtcr? (in the case of the c802 and the c602)

If tweaked in house, there is no violation.

 

[Blue Marlin]

If tweaked in house, there is no violation.

did i say it was a violation ? you can only do that on chinese kit though i doubt you modded the harpoon. they was some rumours going around a while ago, that pakistan tweeked them for land targets and an inspection revieled they were fine and all accounted for.

 

[SQ8]

did i say it was a violation ? you can only do that on chinese kit though i doubt you modded the harpoon. they was some rumours going around a while ago, that pakistan tweeked them for land targets and an inspection revieled they were fine and all accounted for.

The harpoon was never touched because the technical expertise to pull that off successfully never existed. That story was just an Indian lobby plant.

 

[Blue Marlin]

The harpoon was never touched because the technical expertise to pull that off successfully never existed. That story was just an Indian lobby plant.

i got that while ago now you need to as you have mor capable weapons. also the harpoons are getting quite old now and its getting to the point of using them or losing them.

 

[ConcealCarry]

Makes sense, as no need to re-invent the wheel if you can buy one.

ill reiterate this again(and again where I have to):

Pakistan only spends R&D where it cannot source the material or where there is a chance the material may have a unreliable supplier.

 

[Arsalan]

i dont think babur will be placed on subs, i think we need to place it on Frigates as soon as possible.

Not happening for now.

And I meant to say that don't overestimate the timeline.

I say that based on:

1. Lack on any submerged test launches
2. Lack of a proper platform. We are still not very sure if we will be able to use a SLCM from Augusta and the Chinese options a few years away from induction.

Even working on some Chinese blueprints for a SLCM as you suggested in a later post will need some time. It will surely not be same as designing a new system but it sure will need some time. Furthermore, i would say that the better option will be to take "Submarine launched" part of SLCM from some Chinese missile and keep the "Cruise missile" part of SLCM same as Babur. A complete Chinese system should only be acceptable if it comes in form of blueprints, complete control over its designing and development.

ill reiterate this again(and again where I have to):

Pakistan only spends R&D where it cannot source the material or where there is a chance the material may have a unreliable supplier.

Totally agreed with and despite what fanboys have to say about it, completely sensible. Even though there are some disadvantages but the advantages it offers to a country like ours are going to outweigh the disadvantages for some years to come.

Nah more or less the same details that you have

The problem is inefficient or what they say, Gas guzzling engine. Chinese somehow provided them the early model of engines, If I'm not wrong since project was initated in 1999. And it seems NESCOM has been trying to upgrade the engine inhouse instead of depending on China to provide upgraded engine models.

Yup that is what i was talking about when i said "some work was being done related to engines".
The concern is that there have been no tests or report about an increased range missile. Not it may mean two things:

1. The NESCOM guys were not very successful in there project and thus we are stuck with that same engine.
2. The things are being kept under wraps

Now frankly, point 1 is not very likely and point 2 don't makes much sense.

Point one is not likely because firstly i believe NESCOM guys would have sorted it out themselves and even if for some reason they were not able to do so there was always that Chinese option. In short improving the range would not have been that much of a problem.

Point two don't makes much sense because why would PA want to keep such details secret. I guess we should let enemy know what will we fight with if provoked. The only way to WIN a war in today's nuclear armed world is to avoid it from happening and potent platforms will always help keep your enemies at bay.
One little point in its favor however is that it is a strategic weapons and perhaps PA will want to keep details like range hidden but still if would have opted for a public test and a confirmation of range over 700Km and give a range figure few hundred Km short of the actual. At least make people know that we will be a hard nut to crack. I stress this to be VERY important for so many other weapon platforms at the very least. No point hiding things like general capabilities, off course no one is asking to actually discuss the technical details or anything but at least be vocal about what you are capable of.
AVOID THOSE HOSTILITIES IF YOU WANT TO WIN THEM.

 

[Incog_nito]

I think PN needs to add VLS launchers in F-22P.

 

[Hassan Guy]

What are the future upgrades for the next variant of the Babur?