Featured Azerbaijan Armenian War

[Psychedelic]

They claim this is a harop but I dont think so. Azerbaijan has a lot of soviet era antonov 2 planes. Instead of retiring they made them pilotless. They fly these along the conflict zone as bait to locate air defenses. Early in the conflict they even shot one of theirs by mistake. Armenia shoots these and claim they downed a helicipter downed an Su25 etc. I am not sure about this though. Looks like an antonov 2 but cpuld be harop. It is so big to be harop in my opinion and wings dont look like it. What do you guys think ?

 

[thetutle]

Pakistan's support for Azerbaijan is independent of Turkey. However, this conflict does display the potential of a Turkey-Pakistan nexus. Middle east is divided into 3 evenly matched power blocs right now. The Turkey bloc, the Iran bloc, the GCC+Egypt bloc. Pakistan can become the pivot that allows one faction to become more dominate over the others. Turkey is the strongest individual country in the ME however on its own, it got bogged down in Syria and and Libya. GCC+Egypt is probably the strongest bloc but on their own were bogged down in Yemen and Libya. The Iran bloc, on paper is the weakest but has performed well in the field in Syria and Yemen.

Pakistan has supplied, trained, and advised Azeri forces as well as Turkey. This additional support has made the Azeri military far more potent then GNA or Syrian factions on the ground.... and will allow the Turkey bloc to have a clear victory over the Armenia/Iran bloc.....just a matter of time.

The implications for the region is clear, if Pakistan strongly sides with one of the ME power blocs...they will win. This for Pakistan will be come a juggling act. Iran is our neighbor...we need good relations with them. We have big historic ties to GCC and need good relations with them. At this point we are a wild card for the ME factions.

This is a very good observation. There are basically 3 blocks.

GCC are western vassal states. Their leaders are approved by the west and they have no independent policy. in return they are given security and a small fraction of their own wealth. The rest of their wealth goes to pay tribute to the west. to defence contractors and engineering companies and the like. As trump said, they would last 2 weeks without a US security guarantee.

Turkey is also a vassal state. It has to tow the line and do what it's told most of the time. If it goes rogue, they usually just replace the leader with a general. Erdogan is changing this slowly. It still has to tow the line and the west decides how many long range missiles it can have (it's not allowed any) etc. It's the most powerful block. It could conquer the GCC block and Egypt without much trouble. (Saudi patriots don't seem work and Egyptian F-16's don't seem to have any decent air to air missiles).

Iran is already rogue and ballistic. Coincidentally, it's also one of only 3 truly independent countries in the Islamic world. (others being Pakistan and Indonesia). But it's being starved to death because of this independence.

So yes, Pakistan, being one of the 3 independent Islamic countries, and a nuke power, and no-one able to do anything about them, and a democracy, can really be the pivot.

For reasons unknown to me, Pakistan is an economic basket case. And the GCC has been keeping it afloat for a long time. This seems to be ending. Pakistan has wisely chosen China instead. But it's also pivoting to Turkey, because Turkey is a developed democracy and strives to be an independent power.

I think Erdogan will push this independence thing to the end. The west will eventually come for him, and he will either go back to vassal state or get nuclear technology from Pakistan for a few trillion $$ (yes trillions is the price of nukes and the freedom they give you). And then Turkey, Pakistan and Indonesia can form the democratic Islamic block. (Indonesia doesn't need nukes. they are 260 million people on islands).

So I think this war and others Turkey is involved in, is just a stepping stone to this emerging free independent Islamic block.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

The destruction of the Armenian bunkers and armored!!! It's almost like fighting for
to liberate
every square feet !! Extremely fortified Armenian positions!!! The entire known world has supported them to fortify it like the Maginot Line in 30 years!! It's no joke....

I like this frontline reporter. Like an Azeri John Simpson.

 

[Psychedelic]

This is a very good observation. There are basically 3 blocks.

GCC are western vassal states. Their leaders are approved by the west and they have no independent policy. in return they are given security and a small fraction of their own wealth. The rest of their wealth goes to pay tribute to the west. to defence contractors and engineering companies and the like. As trump said, they would last 2 weeks without a US security guarantee.

Turkey is also a vassal state. It has to tow the line and do what it's told most of the time. If it goes rogue, they usually just replace the leader with a general. Erdogan is changing this slowly. It still has to tow the line and the west decides how many long range missiles it can have (it's not allowed any) etc. It's the most powerful block. It could conquer the GCC block and Egypt without much trouble. (Saudi patriots don't seem work and Egyptian F-16's don't seem to have any decent air to air missiles).

Iran is already rogue and ballistic. Coincidentally, it's also one of only 3 truly independent countries in the Islamic world. (others being Pakistan and Indonesia). But it's being starved to death because of this independence.

So yes, Pakistan, being one of the 3 independent Islamic countries, and a nuke power, and no-one able to do anything about them, and a democracy, can really be the pivot.

For reasons unknown to me, Pakistan is an economic basket case. And the GCC has been keeping it afloat for a long time. This seems to be ending. Pakistan has wisely chosen China instead. But it's also pivoting to Turkey, because Turkey is a developed democracy and strives to be an independent power.

I think Erdogan will push this independence thing to the end. The west will eventually come for him, and he will either go back to vassal state or get nuclear technology from Pakistan for a few trillion $$ (yes trillions is the price of nukes and the freedom they give you). And then Turkey, Pakistan and Indonesia can form the democratic Islamic block. (Indonesia doesn't need nukes. they are 260 million people on islands).

So I think this war and others Turkey is involved in, is just a stepping stone to this emerging free independent Islamic block.

Vassal of whom ? If this was the case. There would not be a cyprus operation. Which resulted turkey being under an embergo lasted years. Coup history of turkey is mostly independent from foreign stuff. It was the military who founded this republic and was somewhat over protective about their way of things.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I like this frontline reporter. Like an Azeri John Simpson.

In fact he's from Turkey...

 

[Psychedelic]

I like this frontline reporter. Like an Azeri John Simpson.

He is turkish. Tv100 is a turkish tv. His accent is turkish as well.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The Azerbayjani troops are painting the Armenian armored into their colors......

 

[thetutle]

Central Asia turned into Russian after 1st world war. These people change their identity to adjust themselves with Greater Russia. Even the name change from " Azim" to Azimov" . Otherwise they have been isolated and neglected from jobs etc ..

Now the army of Azerbiajan is trained by Israel and provided massive training, but...

Azerbaijan-Israel Military Partnership: Implications for Regional Security
Over the last twenty years, the political and defense ties between Israel and Azerbaijan have improved dramatically, to the point where the Jewish State is now considered one of Azerbaijan's closest military partners

View attachment 677844



The close diplomatic relations with Israel has always been a suitable factor for official Baku to demonstrate its uniqueness in the Muslim world. The diplomatic relations established in April 1992, not long after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Since the establishment of diplomatic relations between two countries, there have been a number of high-level visits, although in most cases, the visiting senior officials were Israelis. Over the last twenty years, the ties between Israel and Azerbaijan have improved drastically.

After the collapse of the Soviets, Israel has rapidly expanded its foreign policy options by establishing a dialogue with CIS countries, in particular with Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan lies on the shores of the Caspian Sea, bordered on the south by Iran. Like Iran, it is predominantly Shia country, but its regime is secular and pro-Western. In fact, Azerbaijan-Israel partnership is mostly based on culture, since Azerbaijan is a historical home for ethnic-Jewish people, while dozens of Azeri Jewish people live in Israel.

In addition to political and cultural relations, Israel is one of the closest military partners of Azerbaijan, as the country is a target for Israeli defense industry exports. Israeli defense companies were also involved in training Special Forces and bodyguard missions for senior officials in Azerbaijan, constructing security systems for the airport in Baku and upgrading military equipment from the Soviet era. There have also been reports that Azerbaijan serves as a hub for Israeli intelligence-gathering operations against Iran.

In 2012, a $1.6 billion transaction involving the sale of weapons by Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) to Azerbaijan was reported. The transaction included unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and satellite systems. Over the past three years, Azerbaijan has become an even more significant destination for Israeli arms exports. The bilateral military cooperation between Israel and Azerbaijan has entered the new phase during the latest visit of Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu to Baku. While the latest visit of Netanyahu boosted the bilateral relations in a good way, some experts argued that the new military contract was signed in Baku. Unexpectedly, during the joint press conference, President Ilham Aliyev announced that his country had signed $5 billion worth of long-term contracts over the years to buy weapons and security equipment from Israel.

Eventually, from Azerbaijan’s perspective, one of the primary goals of its foreign policy is redeeming territory lost during the war in Nagorno-Karabakh in the 1990s. The cooperation in the security field between Israel and Azerbaijan helps the latter to maintain balanced foreign policy towards regional countries such as Russia, Iran, and Turkey. Official Baku now is keener in purchasing Israeli-made weaponry, in particular, kamikaze drones following the successful “Four-Day War” in Karabakh in April 2016. According to Azerbaijani military experts, the Israeli-made equipment is better quality and more modern compared to other purchased equipment. Nevertheless, Russia still maintains the main weapon supplier position of Azerbaijan Armed Forces. According to estimates, 85 percent of Azerbaijan’s arms expenditures from 2005-2014 went to procurements from Russia.

As a result of Israel’s undeniable contribution to Azerbaijan's military, especially during the April war there appeared certain articles, statements, and commentaries in local mass media praising Israeli-Azerbaijan military partnership.

Besides military ties, Israeli authorities eye more cooperation with Baku in energy, agricultural and other fields. Considerably, the energy issue was on the agenda of Prime Minister Netanyahu during his Baku visit. It is no secret that Azerbaijan is the biggest supplier of oil to Israel for years. During his visit to Baku, Israeli PM Netanyahu discussed the possibility of joining the Baku-led Trans-Adriatic Pipeline, which intends to deliver natural gas to the southern part of Europe via Turkey. "Now we’re talking about not just the sale of oil from Azerbaijan to Israel, which is a very important part of our oil imports. We’re talking about using common facilities for the export of gas and the linking of Israel’s gas exports potentially to a great pipeline that is being built as we speak right now from Azerbaijan into Turkey," said PM Netanyahu.

Azerbaijani government, which always maintains balanced foreign policy towards neighboring countries, will likely increase the volume of military partnership with Israel. However, the details of future arm import from Israel remains unclear, given the discord of Iran to growing Israeli involvement in the region. Although Azerbaijan avoids provocative measures against Iran, Israeli defense industry offers the best option (newly made defense radar system) to Baku to confront with Armenia’s Iskander Missile system.

***

Fuad Shahbazov (@fuadshahbazov) is an Expert-Advisor at Baku-based Centre for Strategic Studies under the President of Azerbaijan Republic. His area of expertise embraces regional security, religious radicalism, and military issues.

I don't see a problem with Azerbaijan building ties with Israel. They need all the help they can get. These ties won't hurt anyone. Israel is within the Arab sphere of influence. Arab counties are vassals of the west. or about to be. Israel is also a vassal state of the west. When and if Arab countries can free themselves of this vassal status, they can deal with it then. No point Turkey or Azerbaijan or Pakistan who is 2,000 km away losing sleep over this.

Iran seems to want this confrontation. It probably makes sense for them. But there is no value in Azerbaijan being a part of it.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The noose around the Armenian neck is being tightened further....

The Armenians are fleeing leaving their armored behind!! Now, the Turks are driving them home....

 

[HAIDER]

I don't see a problem with Azerbaijan building ties with Israel. They need all the help they can get. These ties won't hurt anyone. Israel is within the Arab sphere of influence. Arab counties are vassals of the west. or about to be. Israel is also a vassal state of the west. When and if Arab countries can free themselves of this vassal status, they can deal with it then. No point Turkey or Azerbaijan or Pakistan who is 2,000 km away losing sleep over this.

Iran seems to want this confrontation. It probably makes sense for them. But there is no value in Azerbaijan being a part of it.

Well, ISIS was 3000 miles away, and we were sleeping calmly .... now they have deep roots in Afghanistan. Disaster never inform before its arrival, it simply knocks at your door. We Pakistani has a bad habit of long sleep.



What did i say when war begin ....Azerbaijan has 15 days to achieve its goal ... now .. Azerbaijan armed forces need very extensive mountain war training and satellite guided weapons..




Warring Sides in Nagorno-Karabakh Agree to Cease-Fire Talks
The foreign ministers of Armenia and Azerbaijan are coming to Moscow for a Russian-brokered negotiation on a limited truce to exchange prisoners and casualties.

MOSCOW — Azerbaijan and Armenia opened talks on Friday for a limited cease-fire after almost two weeks of fierce fighting over a disputed province, with the goal of achieving at least a pause long enough to collect bodies from the battlefield and to exchange prisoners.
But the prospects for a broader peace deal appeared dim after the Azeri president, Ilham Aliyev, said in a televised speech Fridaythat he was happy to have talks but was making no concessions.
“We are winning and will get our territory back and ensure our territorial integrity,” Mr. Aliyev said. “Let them abandon our territory in peace.”
The conflict in and around Nagorno-Karabakh, an ethnic Armenian enclave in Azerbaijan, flared late last month and has threatened to spiral into a wider war drawing in Russia; Turkey, a NATO member; and possibly Iran.
The Russian Foreign Ministry mediated the talks after President Vladimir V. Putin warned earlier this week that Russia could be forced to uphold its mutual defense pact with Armenia if the fighting spread.
“Ours is a tiny country, hardly visible on the map, but it could be the start of gigantic war,” Irina Grigoryan, a teacher of Russian literature who fled Nagorno-Karabakh a week ago, said in a telephone interview on Friday.

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After Ms. Grigoryan left with five grandchildren for the safety of Yerevan, the Armenian capital, an apartment where some of the children lived was bombed, she said. She said she is hopeful the cease-fire will hold.
“Can’t they stop the war, at least for a day or two?” she said. “Any negotiation is better than war.”
In nighttime telephone conversations with the leaders of Azerbaijan and Armenia, Mr. Putin suggested the limited truce as a preliminary step. Mr. Putin invited both countries’ foreign ministers to the talks in Moscow.
Mr. Putin “made an appeal to halt combat underway in the area of Nagorno-Karabakh from a humanitarian perspective,” the Kremlin said in a statement. “The goal is to exchange bodies of those who died and prisoners. To consult on these questions with mediation by the Russian Foreign Ministry” both sides were invited to Moscow, the statement said.
The conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh has simmered for decades in a remote mountain region of little geostrategic importance, after a war in the early 1990s ended in a cease-fire but no wider settlement. That changed when Turkey, which has been flexing its muscles regionally in recent months, openly backed Azerbaijan, its ethnic Turkic ally, in an escalation that began on Sept. 27.
Mr. Putin this week said that Russia would honor the defense agreement with Armenia if the fighting spilled onto Armenian territory rather than the area in and around the Nagorno-Karabakh region in Azerbaijan. That statement raised the prospect of Russian intervention and was followed by the appeal for a truce to exchange bodies and prisoners.
Armenia said on Friday that 376 of its soldiers had died in the fighting to date. Azerbaijan has not been releasing body counts.
The fighting carried on Friday even as the Azerbaijani, Armenian and Russian foreign ministers prepared for the talks in Moscow.
The Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Ministry said the two armies exchanged artillery fire across the frontline overnight Thursday and into Friday, and that populated areas on its territory were hit.
Rocket artillery on Thursday hit the roof of the Holy Savior Cathedral, a cherished, 19th century Armenian cathedral in the hilltop town of Shusha, partially destroying it. The cathedral was also partially destroyed in the Nagorno-Karabakh war in the early 1990s and subsequently restored.
Azerbaijani state news media reported shelling in two districts on Friday. The country’s prosecutor general said Friday that since the fighting started last month 31 civilians have been killed and 178 wounded by artillery fire.
The office of the United Nations High Commissioner on Human Rights issued a statement Friday condemning the violence spilling over into civilian areas. The commission estimated that as of Thursday 58 civilians had been killed, including children, while apartment buildings, schools and other civilian structures had been destroyed.
The statement called for the militaries to halt use of cluster munitions, which scatter small bombs over a wide area and are particularly lethal to civilians. The fighting also risked spreading coronavirus, the statement noted.
Michelle Bachelet, the commissioner, said the warring sides needed to “abide by the principles of distinction, proportionality and precaution,” and to avoid firing explosive weapons into populated areas.

 

[thetutle]

Vassal of whom ? If this was the case. There would not be a cyprus operation. Which resulted turkey being under an embergo lasted years. Coup history of turkey is mostly independent from foreign stuff. It was the military who founded this republic and was somewhat over protective about their way of things.

I believe it was/is a vassal to the west. Of course, you can push Turkey only so far before it snaps and we saw that in Cyprus in 1974. But coups were there to ensure it remains firmly in the western camp and that someone like Erdogan doesn't take over.

Well whoops. He's taken over and now he sets the tune and has a seat at the table. and the west is not very happy at all. He's still got to tow the line. but it's different. And he'll have to tow the line until he gets nukes. there is no other way to be independent.

Turkey has what 2,000 tanks. Russia has 15,000. its incomparable. It's just a big leap to go into first class power. it requires nukes. along with other things, like strategic depth etc. but it starts with robust defence industry. and Erdogan is starting to tick the boxes.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Cannon to right of them,

Cannon to left of them,​

Cannon behind them​

Volleyed and thundered;​

Stormed at with shot and shell,​

While horse and hero fell.​

They that had fought so well​

Came through the jaws of Death,​

Back from the mouth of hell,​

All that was left of them,​

Left of six hundred.​

- The Charge of the Light Brigade (Lord Tennyson)

 

[masterchief_mirza]

I am sorry to disagree with you.

Humanity in us is enough to guide us what is right and what is wrong ... and what is "justice" and what is "injustice".

And humanity is very clear that turning churches into mosques is against the humanity, and it is injustice.

It is same that humanity guides us that "slavery" was against the justice.

Yet, we see that slavery was so called "Halal" (in your own words). But then according to the world situation, all Muslim countries accepted that slavery is no more "halal" today, and it should be abolished totally, while remaining world also abolished it.

So, are you going to say that all Muslim countries have become Kafirs while they have made that thing "haram", which was made "halal" by Allah?

If you still consider slavery to be halal in today's world, then we need not to discuss further.

But if you believe that it is ok to abolish this halal of Allah (i.e. slavery), then using the same token, it is also then OK to prohibit destruction of any Church/Mandir into mosque or toilet, while remaining world also allow Muslims to make mosques in their lands.

At least this is what I think about Shia Islam. But I am also very sure that this is what is also true about the Sunni Islam too.

You're right. The guy you're responding to seems to be a bit of an idiot who can't understand that "right" and "wrong" cannot be itemized for every possible scenario but need to be judged as an extrapolation of available edicts/moral codes. This sort of basic understanding is beyond certain individuals.

 

[Armchair]

I am sorry to disagree with you.

Humanity in us is enough to guide us what is right and what is wrong ... and what is "justice" and what is "injustice".

And humanity is very clear that turning churches into mosques is against the humanity, and it is injustice.

It is same that humanity guides us that "slavery" was against the justice.

Yet, we see that slavery was so called "Halal" (in your own words). But then according to the world situation, all Muslim countries accepted that slavery is no more "halal" today, and it should be abolished totally, while remaining world also abolished it.

So, are you going to say that all Muslim countries have become Kafirs while they have made that thing "haram", which was made "halal" by Allah?

If you still consider slavery to be halal in today's world, then we need not to discuss further.

But if you believe that it is ok to abolish this halal of Allah (i.e. slavery), then using the same token, it is also then OK to prohibit destruction of any Church/Mandir into mosque or toilet, while remaining world also allow Muslims to make mosques in their lands.

At least this is what I think about Shia Islam. But I am also very sure that this is what is also true about the Sunni Islam too.

Yes, technically if you make something Allah has declared halal as haram, or vice versa, you are going against what Allah said. However, the Quran doesn't say that you should go and take slaves anywhere. The closest verse is 47:4, which says to either show generosity or ransom to prisoners of war. Taking a prisoner for asked ransom isn't the same as asking to enslave people, and clearly is open to interpretation.
in the case where a Khalifah does it based on "maqasid al shariah", it may even be possible to disregard a law from Allah, and Allah knows best. For instance, during famine, Hazrat Umar (pbuh) declared that the law of chopping of the hand of a thief was not applicable. Was he going against the law of Allah? Yes, in a very simplistic way. But he saw that it was not the purpose of the law of Allah to punish people dying from hunger, and being forced to steal. That, for instance, the Quran has 114 chapters and 113 of them start with "In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful". That the most merciful would not chop off the hand of a person who was being forced to steal out of the necessity of hunger.

So again, we are running away from the clear legal laws given in the Quran, and like Shaitan, we are trying to argue over ambiguous issues, and divide over them and fight each other over them.

In fact, virtually all issues that divide Muslims relates to hadith and "opinions of scholars". There are over 1 million hadith and even more "opinions" (Opinions only in name, these opinions are applied as "the law" by force so not really simply "opinions"). Muslims of each sect / group make up a fake religion and choose the hadith from the 1 million hadith and the opinions that fit their position and then point fingers at others. Fight each other. Kill each other. Rape each other. What a sham.

Strangely, thousands of thousands of these hadith don't even have verification - only one person heard it. There is no way to verify if he was lying, confused or mistaken. If you take only hadith that has been thoroughly verified by multiple chains, and each chain is accepted by all major Muslim groups, only then will we find commonality.

Secondly, someone has to put an end to this "opinions" business. There were no such opinions during the early Muslim period. To simplify, there should be the law which is clearly given in the Quran, examples of which given clearly in properly vetted hadith accepted by most. And any other issue should not be part of the Law of Allah. Rest should be left to the khalifah to promulgate political and social laws, for a given time period that is not to be replicated forever into the future, and not to be mixed with the Law of Allah (like we are currently doing).

 

[thetutle]

Well, ISIS was 3000 miles away, and we were sleeping calmly .... now they have deep roots in Afghanistan. Disaster never inform before its arrival, it simply knocks at your door. We Pakistani has a bad habit of long sleep.

I just think there is no value in worrying about Israel too much. It's like Azerbaijan wanting to destroy Armenia in 1991, when it was armed, funded and had security guarantees from mother Russia. It's madness. Israel has what America has, and it's funded by them. unlimited weapons and money.

Once this dries up or Arabs become powerful and and free, Israel will probably just Join some Arab union and take over the banking sector while Arabs do all the crappy jobs like police, factory workers etc.

Average Israeli has 3 passports. Most of them are from Arab countries anyway originally. I just don't see the value of wasting too many resources on this issue right now. You have to pick your battles.





Azeiris are now heading north from Jabraili and have taken Hadrut. Bypassing the "Maginot" line?

a page out of Heinz Guderian?