Avalanche traps about 150 Pakistani soldiers

[Peregrine]

We are suppose to draw lessons from such natural calamities which inflict devastation on humanity and not use them, as an excuse to create ruckus over petty enmities. There are bigger problems in the form these natural calamities that are staring us in the face, but unfortunately, world is too busy to realize that.

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Avoid killing possible survivors. Only handwork and canine detectors, I was told, are of use. With a bulldozer, I could easily wipe out a survivor, not knowing that he is buried in the path of my sweep. I was also toldcwe have a dog squad trained for detection of survivors, and so does the PA.

It's a hideously delicate situation, very like post-earthquake conditions.

Sir, I have a suggesstion.

Can't we equip our soldiers at such heights with body monitors so that as soon as the body temp drops below a certain point, as in the case of the wearer being buried under snow, the sensor would transmit an signal to the base camp giving the exact last known GPS signal?

 

[Peregrine]

patriotism is one of the worst things ever invented.....it makes people dislike each other.....blinds them with hatred....... it has been bane of several empires in the past and continues to be

You are right, but i think that the more appropriate word would be JINGOISM.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Avoid killing possible survivors. Only handwork and canine detectors, I was told, are of use. With a bulldozer, I could easily wipe out a survivor, not knowing that he is buried in the path of my sweep. I was also toldcwe have a dog squad trained for detection of survivors, and so does the PA.

It's a hideously delicate situation, very like post-earthquake conditions.

All that is true. Even if the snow/ice pile up is about 70 ft thick its density or dynamics will be unpredictable. Som of it may be tamped down while some of it may revert to fluid state just like that. Then again its not likely to be evenly distributed. So little chance of using heavy equipment. As I understand it, from some old SASE material; people familiar with snow studies may be able to work out the density by observation and layer thickness by theodolite observations from surroundings. But unless one has very educated estimates of that, it will be prudent to just burrow in the approximate location/s.

Another factor is what was the nature of the original structures that housed the men. If they were of loose construction, then there is the possibility of their movement below the heaps somewhat like moraines in a glacier. That will make the job of location that much more difficult.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir, I have a suggesstion.

Can't we equip our soldiers at such heights with body monitors so that as soon as the body temp drops below a certain point, as in the case of the wearer being buried under snow, the sensor would transmit an signal to the base camp giving the exact last known GPS signal?

I am sure that this should be possible, although, truth to tell, I haven't heard of any such device. That doesn't mean it can't be done, of course.

Could a cheap device be rigged up with COTS components? It might then be worth asking people to take a look.

I am sure that this should be possible, although, truth to tell, I haven't heard of any such device. That doesn't mean it can't be done, of course.

Could a cheap device be rigged up with COTS components? It might then be worth asking people to take a look.

Actually, that's quite a clever idea. If it's cheap enough, then, without the body-heat monitoring capability (less cost), it could be issued to sailors as well. The central sensor would be on the bridge somewhere. But we should take this off this thread. This cross-conversation at this very sensitive time could irritate people.

 

[VCheng]

Sir, I have a suggesstion.

Can't we equip our soldiers at such heights with body monitors so that as soon as the body temp drops below a certain point, as in the case of the wearer being buried under snow, the sensor would transmit an signal to the base camp giving the exact last known GPS signal?

Initiating a rescue operation after hypothermia has set in does not leave much time for a successful extraction, never mind the availability of oxygen.

 

[Safriz]

I am sure that this should be possible, although, truth to tell, I haven't heard of any such device. That doesn't mean it can't be done, of course.

Could a cheap device be rigged up with COTS components? It might then be worth asking people to take a look.

and GPS signal does not work underground/underwater/under ice.....
Certain Radio frequencies work under ice/water/earth....and that can be used to locate the transmitter....
Examples are SAR beacons..EPIRBS...Best option would be a Transponder so that the wearer does not have to big battery and the beacon will only transmit as responding to an incoming signal..otherwise it will switch off and wait and save power.
That way when search parties are in the disaster area they can transmit pings of certain frequency in all direction and the positioning beacons will respond to the ping by transmitting back..One existing example is SART..but i dont know of any similar equipment worn by people.
I like the idea..Although i haven't heard of any thing like this....and somebody can point out an existing beacon being carried by Hikers,Mountaineers,Trekkers and soldiers?

 

[Always Neutral]

RIP to the fallen soldiers who served their country bravely in dangerous conditions.

What about the politicians on both sides who send them there?

Just a thought, since predictions of Avalanche has now become a well known science why did the PA not import this technology from the Swiss?

 

[Jango]

Rescue dogs from Army dog centre Murree have also been sent.

But still, the snow is too high, so, no use of their abilities till now.

 

[SpArK]

Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world!

Worth a look.

 

[Safriz]

Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world!

Worth a look.

wow...its situated slap bang in the middle of the avalanche zone...and right at the mouth of the glacier.

 

[Always Neutral]

The Avalanche started from Indian control side or Pakistani side?

Actually you have raised a very valid point. If anyone has basic knowledge of skiing he will know how the snow patrols close slopes while they trigger of explosives to clear dangerous build up of snow. Avalanches do not happen over night and I would think Armies would have specialist in these fields. Yes if I was SF on the Indian side and knew when to trigger it off I would use it vice versa.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

May They find peace in heaven.

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Actually you have raised a very valid point. If anyone has basic knowledge of skiing he will know how the snow patrols close slopes while they trigger of explosives to clear dangerous build up of snow. Avalanches do not happen over night and I would think Armies would have specialist in these fields. Yes if I was SF on the Indian side and knew when to trigger it off I would use it vice versa.

Then kindly explain Mr conspiracy theorist do you think PA is stupid to built there Batallion headquater near Indian side.

 

[VCheng]

Hopes fade for 135 feared dead in Pakistan avalanche | DAWN.COM

Hopes fade for 135 feared dead in Pakistan avalanche

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistani military on Sunday dug through snow, boulders and slush in an increasingly desperate search for 135 people buried in an avalanche, as hopes faded of finding any survivors.

Nearly 36 hours after a wall of snow crashed into a remote army camp high up in the mountains of Kashmir, rescuers were yet to recover any survivors or even bodies from the Siachen Glacier, where Pakistani and Indian troops face off.

The camp was engulfed between 5:00am and 6:00am on Saturday — perhaps when some were sleeping — by a mass of snow, stones, mud and slush more than 1,000 metres (3,300 feet) wide and 25 metres high, the military said in a statement.

About 180 military personnel and 60 civilian rescuers were braving freezing temperatures at the inhospitable site close to the de facto border with India, in area known as the world’s highest battlefield, the military said.

Experts familiar with the glacier said there was little hope of finding survivors — the military said overnight that 135 people were missing from the camp, including 124 soldiers from the 6th Northern Light Infantry battalion.

“There is no hope, there is no chance at all,” mountaineering expert Colonel Sher Khan told AFP.

“You can survive only in the first 5-10 minutes,” said Khan. “The casualties in avalanches occur due to pressure of heavy weight, extreme cold and lack of oxygen.”

The powerful army chief General Ashfaq Kayani visited the epicentre of the disaster and “supervised rescue operations himself”, the military said.

“The avalanche of such a magnitude was unprecedented in last 20 years of this Battalion Headquarters existence at Gayari,” he said.

General Kayani instructed the commanders “to optimally utilize all available resources at their disposal and leave no stone unturned to reach out to the entrapped personnel,” it said.

“It’s a huge, huge avalanche,” a senior military officer told AFP, adding rescue work would take several days.

Specially trained search-and-rescue teams of army engineers equipped with the latest locating gadgets and heavy machinery had arrived, the military statement said, joining rescue units aided by sniffer dogs and helicopters.

“Adequate medical staff has been made available for the treatment of injured persons in forward field hospitals,” it added.

A tailor and two hairdressers were among the civilians missing in the thick snow in the militarised region of Kashmir, which has caused two of the three wars between India and Pakistan since their independence in 1947 from Britain.