Automotive Industry development in Muslim countries

[AUz]

LOL, you obviously know jack **** about economy. You think that producing absolute cheap crap cars and flooding emerging markets such as Iraq (main export country) with cheap crap that the locals even complain about is a success? You think that it is hard to produce cars of such low quality? Are you joking? You think that cars is something your country earns on besides creating low-paid and low-skilled jobs for locals or Afghan immigrants in the case of Iran?

Well, everyone start off 'cheap' ...Also, you can improve, gain skills, and atleast compete in local markets. Without any car manufacturing sector, you get other big giants sucking the blood out of local population.

Americans would sell all the crappy cars to Arabs and that too by extracting huge amount of money from them.

Believe me, cars that Arab drive are a JOKE in U.S. Inefficient, gas gazzlers, and overly expensive.

Developing cars need engineering and industrial base. Its not a joke.

Having an efficient, localized industry for cars, televisions, construction, housing, water management, agriculture, computers, IT, telecom, education, human resource development, natural resource exploration, food production, textiles, military production etc etc is important for any nation.

I can give you the names of among the richest countries in the world many of whom are European countries that do NOT produce cars. In fact by far the most developed countries in the world do not produce cars AT ALL.

Europeans produce cars. Period.

"Every" European nation doesn't have to make everything..but 'Europeans' do produce cars. Italians, Germans, French, British etc have booming car industries...

Which Arab nation has it? I mean, every Arab nation doesn't have to produce it..but major Arab nations producing cars do only good to Arabs....

Just to mention a few MUCH more important issues that the Muslim world should focus on.

One of the most, if not THE most, important issue facing Muslim world is issue of political stability, illiteracy, dynastic/inefficient rule, wars and what not. Arabs don't play a stabilizing role in all of that exactly.

You think that your technological/development output is measured on producing cheap crap cars? Haha.

No. But it certainly is a factor.

All technologically advance industrial nations produce millions of cars..shows your industrial strength...You name it..Americans, Germans, Japanese, French etc etc...

I am just telling you that the richest Muslim countries (GCC) are not going to buy those crap cars. That's all. Whether you like it or not.

No one is talking about 'buying'....I am just stating the fact of lacking of Industrial base in Arab World. Which is very astonishing seeing the amount of good-luck wealth they have. Should have put it to better use I guess.

Besides you know nothing about GCC developments. We are leading in many fields in the Muslim world.

Oil production....and?

I hope all your plans go through very well and Arab World transforms into a major economic, industrial hub in coming decades..Inshallah!

But that must be indigenous. Bringing skilled scientists/workers/doctors from outside isn't an achievement much.

Sort your own house out before lecturing. Just a friendly advice. Are you really such an angry immigrant?

What my house? I am living in U.S..and things are pretty fine here.

PS, Saudis supported retarded Nawaz Shareef to come to power in Pakistan..and then you expect to sort things out? Whats up with Arab support of dynastic rulers?

Big GCC nations threw Egypt under bus because they felt threatened by Muslim brotherhood. How sad. Egypt is (or was) the most versatile, dynamic, energetic Arab nation..yet it is in ruins..under military dictatorship..and nil at progress.

Oh, and just for your notice then some Arab countries also produce cars in fact I believe that the Arab world in total produce more than 1 million units in total but they are ALSO CRAP.

What is the source? I couldn't find anything that says Arab World has some sort of car industry..

 

[kalu_miah]

Valuable discussions going on here. What we need is leave all other Jihads and start a new

Industrial and Technological Jihad

Joking aside, I wholeheartedly congratulate Indonesia, Turkey and Iran to reach one million production of automobiles per year, but we should note that these are mostly SKD or CKD production, meaning the parts are designed and produced in some East Asian, US or EU country and then assembled locally. May be some parts are locally made, but very few, I think. That said it is a start and all of us have to start somewhere.

@al-Hasani bro, the wiki article in OP states what I noted there:
Morocco: about 110,000
Egypt: about 60,000

If you have source showing more production, please post links. I know GCC cars are producing some vehicles for sure.

The other important points are:

- we cannot directly confront the West (US and EU) as they are too powerful and many of us are dependent on them for our economic or security needs
- that said, we can definitely confront their 2nd level lackeys and punish them for their bad behavior, by that I mean Japan, Korea and India, who are ganging up and working against Muslim interest, none of us are dependent on these punies, rather they are dependent on us for many things, hydrocarbon, market for their product etc.
- China is an alternative to these 2nd level Western lackeys, Russia is another, but just for defense industry, their automotive industry is zilch. Chinese automotive industry is fast maturing and will be able to compete with Korean and Japanese automotive companies in 5-10 years max.

So regardless of our political and sectarian divides, all of us I think can safely avoid these 3 nations and start moving towards sourcing our automotive needs from China.

GCC and Turkey can play a huge role. Just like I mentioned in the Turbofan thread, these countries can lead in developing indigenous design, specially for electric cars through R&D, so that eventually we can come up with our own Global "Muslim" brands. Designing from scratch is very difficult and costly, but it can be done, if efforts and initiatives are taken. Having it done in one place or a couple of competing places, will give us economies of scale, that we cannot achieve as separate efforts in many Muslim nations. This is where we should be moving towards, having our own indigenous design and global brand, not just be happy with slapping together parts from other source countries.

Al Jazeera is a great global media brand, now we need to see global product brands, like Hyundai, LG etc., starting with automobiles and then may be we can move towards other high ticket consumer goods items like house hold appliances.

 

[jaunty]

Kalu you didn't tell us the shia sunni dynamics of this like you usually do.

 

[al-Hasani]

Auz, you make some good points and I prefer your tone to your first post which made me react in a more hostile manner than I usually do. There was no need for that.

Regarding the GCC then take a look at this below.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/243555-gcc-states-economy-development.html

Also you kind of agreed with my basic critique and points and that car manufacturing shows little and is of little economic, scientific, technological etc. importance which I stand by and most experts agree with.

Kalu_Miah:

There are many more but most are local brands that are better not to be told. Also it is not of big importance anyway. Only in terms of creating a few thousand (at most) low-skilled jobs to locals.

Regarding locally produced cars then the more rich or prosperous or emerging Muslim countries will not prefer them over the well-known automobile manufactures simply because the quality is much higher in the European/American/Japense ones while the prize is not far from each other.

An automobile industry would be among the lowest of my priorities IMO. In order for people to prefer indigenous (Muslim made products) those products need to at least be able to compete with the non-Muslim products in term of quality, prize etc. If they don't then I don't think that it matters who and how it was produced. Right now that is simply not the case. All FULLY indigenous produced cars are to put it mildly crap compared to the well-known car manufactures.

Also have in your mind that the purchasing power of a country like KSA and it's consumers is way higher than most Muslim countries (95%) and Iran etc. What we as consumers look for is not the same as the Yemeni, Northern Nigerian, Algerian, Indonesian (all regular) is looking for.

That's just my opinion. No ill will or anything, bro.

 

[kalu_miah]

Auz, you make some good points and I prefer your tone to your first post which made me react in a more hostile manner than I usually do. There was no need for that.

Regarding the GCC then take a look at this below.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/243555-gcc-states-economy-development.html

Also you kind of agreed with my basic critique and points and that car manufacturing shows little and is of little economic, scientific, technological etc. importance which I stand by and most experts agree with.

Kalu_Miah:

There are many more but most are local brands that are better not to be told. Also it is not of big importance anyway. Only in terms of creating a few thousand (at most) low-skilled jobs to locals.

Regarding locally produced cars then the more rich or prosperous or emerging Muslim countries will not prefer them over the well-known automobile manufactures simply because the quality is much higher in the European/American/Japense ones while the prize is not far from each other.

An automobile industry would be among the lowest of my priorities IMO. In order for people to prefer indigenous (Muslim made products) those products need to at least be able to compete with the non-Muslim products in term of quality, prize etc. If they don't then I don't think that it matters who and how it was produced. Right now that is simply not the case. All FULLY indigenous produced cars are to put it mildly crap compared to the well-known car manufactures.

Also have in your mind that the purchasing power of a country like KSA and it's consumers is way higher than most Muslim countries (95%) and Iran etc. What we as consumers look for is not the same as the Yemeni, Northern Nigerian, Algerian, Indonesian (all regular) is looking for.

That's just my opinion. No ill will or anything, bro.

Of course the GCC and other wealthy Arab countries like Libya with high income have a different consumer market than the rest of Arab and Muslim nations, because of difference in income level. So higher quality cars will be preferred there, so I agree with your view on that.

As for CKD and SKD type manufacturing, yes there is mostly low skilled jobs for assembly, but design and development of products from scratch is not low skilled jobs and that is what I was referring to when I mentioned that GCC and Turkey could do this, but it should be at a later stage, after more assembly type plants are setup in many countries.

The difficulty of having more Muslim made globally competitive higher quality products is that it is a long road and we have to start somewhere, we cannot simply get there in one go, it is a step by step process. First we will have to do SKD, then CKD of Japan/Korea/US/EU made parts and then get into original R&D and development of full product cycle. So there should be division of labor, investment, management, R&D, Development etc. should be done by more developed GCC, Malaysia and Turkey, where as the manufacturing and assembly can be done in bigger low skilled countries like Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia, Bangladesh etc.

GCC's importance is not even as a consumer market, but as investors, taking advantage of the large population and the large low end consumer market in Muslim majority countries. Instead of limiting investment in established Western or East Asian companies, what I am suggesting is investing in creating job opportunities in Muslim and Arab countries that can be as profitable or more. In the end, it will enhance GCC economic and strategic security.

Currently there is a total of about $ 2 trillion sovereign wealth fund owned by GCC nations, which is invested in US treasury bonds and stocks in various overseas bourses. What I am suggesting is to take a small portion of this fund and invest in these new strategic projects like the Turbofan project, Automotive project etc. I think its possible to earn better or comparable ROI than existing investments. Empowering and developing Muslim nations will create much greater bonds between Muslim nations and an array of powerful Muslim nations will enhance the security of GCC states and reduce dependence on external powers. And no nation can stop you from taking legitimate business initiatives like these.

 

[kalu_miah]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/280072-chinese-electric-bus-service-new-york.html

 

[Black Eagle 90]

I am also in a favor of electric cars whether powered by Hydrogen Fuel Cells/ New Generation Batteries or even a super efficient generator on board.

I am sure that if Pakistan automotive sector along with GoP will try then they can produce each and every kind of equipment on their own.

All enormous crap compared to Western and Asian (Japanese) cars. Especially the Iranian ones who are famous of exporting cheap and very bad cars to neighboring Iraq and flooding the market there.

I also doubt that it is something the various states do earn a lot from. Basically it is a bad investment. 1 million units is nothing anyway. I doubt anyone outside those countries even know those brands let alone are willing to buy them. Outside mostly obscure 3 world countries.

You will not see rich Muslim countries such as the GCC buying those brands rather than the Western or Asian (Japanese) ones.

The only positives I can see is the creation of jobs.

The technological focus should be put in other aspects such as military production, engineering, renewable energy, robotics, biotechnology, IT technology, materials science, biomedicine, neuroscience, ENERGY development etc. Just to mention a few MUCH more important issues that the Muslim world should focus on.

Why not Saudi Arab and UAE try to develop their own company locally by hiring experts from Germany as well as from Japan and Korea for that.

 

[Black Eagle 90]

Valuable discussions going on here. What we need is leave all other Jihads and start a new

Industrial and Technological Jihad

Joking aside, I wholeheartedly congratulate Indonesia, Turkey and Iran to reach one million production of automobiles per year, but we should note that these are mostly SKD or CKD production, meaning the parts are designed and produced in some East Asian, US or EU country and then assembled locally. May be some parts are locally made, but very few, I think. That said it is a start and all of us have to start somewhere.

@al-Hasani bro, the wiki article in OP states what I noted there:
Morocco: about 110,000
Egypt: about 60,000

If you have source showing more production, please post links. I know GCC cars are producing some vehicles for sure.

The other important points are:

- we cannot directly confront the West (US and EU) as they are too powerful and many of us are dependent on them for our economic or security needs
- that said, we can definitely confront their 2nd level lackeys and punish them for their bad behavior, by that I mean Japan, Korea and India, who are ganging up and working against Muslim interest, none of us are dependent on these punies, rather they are dependent on us for many things, hydrocarbon, market for their product etc.
- China is an alternative to these 2nd level Western lackeys, Russia is another, but just for defense industry, their automotive industry is zilch. Chinese automotive industry is fast maturing and will be able to compete with Korean and Japanese automotive companies in 5-10 years max.

So regardless of our political and sectarian divides, all of us I think can safely avoid these 3 nations and start moving towards sourcing our automotive needs from China.

GCC and Turkey can play a huge role. Just like I mentioned in the Turbofan thread, these countries can lead in developing indigenous design, specially for electric cars through R&D, so that eventually we can come up with our own Global "Muslim" brands. Designing from scratch is very difficult and costly, but it can be done, if efforts and initiatives are taken. Having it done in one place or a couple of competing places, will give us economies of scale, that we cannot achieve as separate efforts in many Muslim nations. This is where we should be moving towards, having our own indigenous design and global brand, not just be happy with slapping together parts from other source countries.

Al Jazeera is a great global media brand, now we need to see global product brands, like Hyundai, LG etc., starting with automobiles and then may be we can move towards other high ticket consumer goods items like house hold appliances.

Every Pakistani knows that, now in Pakistan people are not buying locally assembled cars, they are buying used Japanese and Koreans ones as they are quite good in quality.

So we may see in near future that Japanese auto maker might close down their plants and Pakistan might have its own industry.

 

[Echo_419]

Valuable discussions going on here. What we need is leave all other Jihads and start a new

Industrial and Technological Jihad

Joking aside, I wholeheartedly congratulate Indonesia, Turkey and Iran to reach one million production of automobiles per year, but we should note that these are mostly SKD or CKD production, meaning the parts are designed and produced in some East Asian, US or EU country and then assembled locally. May be some parts are locally made, but very few, I think. That said it is a start and all of us have to start somewhere.

@al-Hasani bro, the wiki article in OP states what I noted there:
Morocco: about 110,000
Egypt: about 60,000

If you have source showing more production, please post links. I know GCC cars are producing some vehicles for sure.

The other important points are:

- we cannot directly confront the West (US and EU) as they are too powerful and many of us are dependent on them for our economic or security needs
- that said, we can definitely confront their 2nd level lackeys and punish them for their bad behavior, by that I mean Japan, Korea and India, who are ganging up and working against Muslim interest, none of us are dependent on these punies, rather they are dependent on us for many things, hydrocarbon, market for their product etc.
- China is an alternative to these 2nd level Western lackeys, Russia is another, but just for defense industry, their automotive industry is zilch. Chinese automotive industry is fast maturing and will be able to compete with Korean and Japanese automotive companies in 5-10 years max.

So regardless of our political and sectarian divides, all of us I think can safely avoid these 3 nations and start moving towards sourcing our automotive needs from China.

GCC and Turkey can play a huge role. Just like I mentioned in the Turbofan thread, these countries can lead in developing indigenous design, specially for electric cars through R&D, so that eventually we can come up with our own Global "Muslim" brands. Designing from scratch is very difficult and costly, but it can be done, if efforts and initiatives are taken. Having it done in one place or a couple of competing places, will give us economies of scale, that we cannot achieve as separate efforts in many Muslim nations. This is where we should be moving towards, having our own indigenous design and global brand, not just be happy with slapping together parts from other source countries.

Al Jazeera is a great global media brand, now we need to see global product brands, like Hyundai, LG etc., starting with automobiles and then may be we can move towards other high ticket consumer goods items like house hold appliances.

Ok so you are saying that the mighty Muslim World will confront
Korea & Japan[I will not add India]
Do tell me how is that possible

 

[rocketman0409]

I am a sort of automobile buff, so this thread intrigued me.

1. Any industrial / technical/ scientific development does not come as a miracle. The country has to invest time and effort to build human capital. So any start is a good start and countries have to maintain focus.

2. My view is that Arab countries (other than UAE), don't have long term stable policies. their policies are driven by some strongman at the top who lacks a vision. This needs to be fixed.

3. Avoid un neccesary wars and strife. better to reach a compromise with all the parties. This is true for India and Pakistan as well. Lot of money being wasted which can be used for better the lot of common citizens.

4. Start small, think big.... Even giants from Japan, Korea started like that.