Australia to buy 58 new F-35 fighter jets

[Indos]

Don't be a joke. TOT will not cover core technology. The US will not allow TOT of core stealth technology which involved coating formula. This is top secret that even Japan cannot buy.

Based on the first phase of the KFX/IFX project, there are still about 30 % technology that should be pursuit to finish it, so if it is not because of that "30%" why then SK pick up F-35 to win the bidding ?, while we knew that European has given his promise to help KFX project by promising to give TOT plus to invest in the project 20 % , if Eurofighter Thyphoon get selected.

 

[xunzi]

Based on the first phase of the KFX/IFX project, there are still about 30 % technology that should be pursuit to finish it, so if it is not that "30%" why then SK pick up F-35 to win the bidding ?, while we knew that European has given his promise to help KFX project by promising to give TOT plus to invest in the KFX project 20 % , if Eurofighter Thyphoon get selected.

"The help" means SK/Indonesia will do majority of the stealth research on their own while Lockheed will provide technical advice, or in other word, emotional support. LOL Let be real here for a second. Lockheed is under US government TOT restriction. SK bought F-35 to keep up with Japan and us. They want a 5th generation as fast as 2020 rather than waiting for KFX which wont be in service until late 2020s to early 2030s. KFX will end up a 4+ fighter but will not match F-35. The engine part alone is difficult for SK. It is a semi-indigenous program from both sides, SK/Indo.

 

[Nike]

"The help" means SK/Indonesia will do majority of the stealth research on their own while Lockheed will provide technical advice, or in other word, emotional support. LOL Let be real here for a second. Lockheed is under US government TOT restriction. SK bought F-35 to keep up with Japan and us. They want a 5th generation as fast as 2020 rather than waiting for KFX which wont be in service until late 2020s to early 2030s. KFX will end up a 4+ fighter but will not match F-35. The engine part alone is difficult for SK. It is a semi-indigenous program from both sides, SK/Indo.

Why not,

as far as i know, US based firms and their European allies is more generous to give transfer of technologies to Indonesia in armament than their Russian or China counterparts. You will see so many US allied countries to produce US origin armament in their home base industries. Such as F-16 in Turkey and South Korea, Japanese Kongo and Atago class, SK king Se Jong and so on. So far US and their allied countries such as Spain, Netherland and South Korea has giving Indonesia so many Transfer technologies in PKR (Sigma class frigate), U-209 submarine, FAL FNC assault rifles, wing parts for our F-16, EC-725 Caracal, CN-235 MPA/ASW, Bell 412-EP and many more. Chinese? nope until now.

 

[A1Kaid]

This is why Australia fights in NATO wars like Afghanistan and Iraq, so that they can get opportunities such as this. They earn their keep I suppose.

 

[bolo]

Why not,

as far as i know, US based firms and their European allies is more generous to give transfer of technologies to Indonesia in armament than their Russian or China counterparts. You will see so many US allied countries to produce US origin armament in their home base industries. Such as F-16 in Turkey and South Korea, Japanese Kongo and Atago class, SK king Se Jong and so on. So far US and their allied countries such as Spain, Netherland and South Korea has giving Indonesia so many Transfer technologies in PKR (Sigma class frigate), U-209 submarine, FAL FNC assault rifles, wing parts for our F-16, EC-725 Caracal, CN-235 MPA/ASW, Bell 412-EP and many more. Chinese? nope until now.

Those are not current tech. Why don't you guys ask USA for Virginia class sub if you think they are so generous.

 

[Nike]

Those are not current tech. Why don't you guys ask USA for Virginia class sub if you think they are so generous.

Your comment is not incoherent with the actual facts, US has give their allies their up to date Arleigh Burke Class destroyer and even the newly built F-15 , so why Chinese doesn't give their only one allies like Pakistan their Type 052 C or D destroyer and their J-10 B planes out of generousity, heck even Chinese doesn't give Pakistan their current tech for Type 99 MBT unlike US which has sell their Abrams to their allies at discounted prices such as Egypt, Greece and Saudi

 

[ViXuyen]

Why not,

as far as i know, US based firms and their European allies is more generous to give transfer of technologies to Indonesia in armament than their Russian or China counterparts. You will see so many US allied countries to produce US origin armament in their home base industries. Such as F-16 in Turkey and South Korea, Japanese Kongo and Atago class, SK king Se Jong and so on. So far US and their allied countries such as Spain, Netherland and South Korea has giving Indonesia so many Transfer technologies in PKR (Sigma class frigate), U-209 submarine, FAL FNC assault rifles, wing parts for our F-16, EC-725 Caracal, CN-235 MPA/ASW, Bell 412-EP and many more. Chinese? nope until now.

Stealth is a very sensitive technology. It gives the U.S the edge over the rest. You cannot hope that they will transfer their most advanced tech to anyone. If the U.S is not willing to sell the F-22 to Britain, what makes u think they will transfer the know-how to make stealth jet to anyone?

 

[bolo]

Your comment is not incoherent with the actual facts, US has give their allies their up to date Arleigh Burke Class destroyer and even the newly built F-15 , so why Chinese doesn't give their only one allies like Pakistan their Type 052 C or D destroyer and their J-10 B planes out of generousity, heck even Chinese doesn't give Pakistan their current tech for Type 99 MBT unlike US which has sell their Abrams to their allies at discounted prices such as Egypt, Greece and Saudi

Give them? You mean sell them. You never answered my question. Why US dont 'give' them Virginia class sub?

 

[Nike]

Stealth is a very sensitive technology. It gives the U.S the edge over the rest. You cannot hope that they will transfer their most advanced tech to anyone. If the U.S is not willing to sell the F-22 to Britain, what makes u think they will transfer the know-how to make stealth jet to anyone?

It is not their stealth technologies we are after, but their technical expertise in building modern Jet fighter we are trying to gain some advantage from them. We (Indo and Sokor) will seek our own stealth technologies, but the technical expertise to build fighter plane is the more urgent we need to speed those development of KFX project. Don't you think with their experience for more than four decades of building something like F-16 and two decades of development F-35 is something more worth than anything we are after. We are not like India or China who can building everything from scratch because of their enormous resources

Give them? You mean sell them. You never answered my question. Why US dont 'give' them Virginia class sub?

Why must Virginia can yourself answer that? You can see if not all of countries want to depend their utimate fighting platform from other countries even if it is come from their close allies. You can see why France built their Triomphant class, Astute class from England, U-212 from Germany, and not all of US allied countries want to procure an expensively maintained stuff like SSBN, it is something out of their league and capability. That's why Sokor, Turkiye, Singapore and so on is seeking much more humble platform like U-209 and U-214 from one US allied countries such as Germany.

 

[Tshering22]

A tacticle missile that is a ballistic missile mistaking for a nuclear launch. Not a good idea. And no proof it works since all we have evidence was a giant white rectangular shape that the Chinese knew where it was and it was stationary and no defenses at all. Besides with long range missiles beyond SAM range by the U.S. Air Force and Navy that can fire hundreds and even thousands of missiles to overwhelm any defenses. Why do you think the Russians and the Chinese are developing such weapons? And I haven't even included cyberwarfare, smart decoys, jamming, etc. against SAMs.

That's why I said, Chinese are using the quantity factor against such measures. Put it this way; say for example if it gets loggerheads between you and Chinese in the East China sea where you have CBG deployed around, if you send four CBGs to attack them apart from the air force stationed in Japan and Korea; who do you think will have the home turf advantage? Even with massive ships, the Chinese would be able to store thousands of missiles on their landmass which will naturally be quantitatively much more than what a few dozen warships, submarines and jets can store.

Yes you are right that there will be further measures added like smart decoys jamming etc. But China's ability to replenish stock in their own country will be much higher than any invading military no matter how strong its logistical supply chain is.

________

Now replace China with Australia. For their landmass, resources and assets that they sit on, their army is tiny and limited; their navy is modern but again is limited in size and their air force is extremely small. In case shit hits the fan, they need to buy time before you and the rest of NATO can come to their help. You tell me, even with 150 F-35s and say 30+ F/A-18SHs, how long do you think they could hold on?

They will need much more before any help can come.

 

[xunzi]

Why not,

as far as i know, US based firms and their European allies is more generous to give transfer of technologies to Indonesia in armament than their Russian or China counterparts. You will see so many US allied countries to produce US origin armament in their home base industries. Such as F-16 in Turkey and South Korea, Japanese Kongo and Atago class, SK king Se Jong and so on. So far US and their allied countries such as Spain, Netherland and South Korea has giving Indonesia so many Transfer technologies in PKR (Sigma class frigate), U-209 submarine, FAL FNC assault rifles, wing parts for our F-16, EC-725 Caracal, CN-235 MPA/ASW, Bell 412-EP and many more. Chinese? nope until now.

We have a very strict policy regarding transferring our high-tech technology to any country that are not really an ally. Let not forget we have a non-intervention policy. We don't seek military alliance like the US do, which is why the US can freely TOT to other country trying to buy their loyalty to the US.

Your comment is not incoherent with the actual facts, US has give their allies their up to date Arleigh Burke Class destroyer and even the newly built F-15 , so why Chinese doesn't give their only one allies like Pakistan their Type 052 C or D destroyer and their J-10 B planes out of generousity, heck even Chinese doesn't give Pakistan their current tech for Type 99 MBT unlike US which has sell their Abrams to their allies at discounted prices such as Egypt, Greece and Saudi

It has nothing to do with us not wanting to provide Pakistan our weapons. This have been talking to dead. It is Pakistan's decision whether they want to have J-10B, Type 052C, or our new SSBN. It's about Pakistan budget issue. You know the US's allies are mostly prosperous and rich right? Why don't the US provide their top weapon to their trust ally like the Phillipines? They desperately need US's latest weapons more than South Korea or Japan. LOL

 

[bolo]

It is not their stealth technologies we are after, but their technical expertise in building modern Jet fighter we are trying to gain some advantage from them. We (Indo and Sokor) will seek our own stealth technologies, but the technical expertise to build fighter plane is the more urgent we need to speed those development of KFX project. Don't you think with their experience for more than four decades of building something like F-16 and two decades of development F-35 is something more worth than anything we are after. We are not like India or China who can building everything from scratch because of their enormous resources



Why must Virginia can yourself answer that? You can see if not all of countries want to depend their utimate fighting platform from other countries even if it is come from their close allies. You can see why France built their Triomphant class, Astute class from England, U-212 from Germany, and not all of US allied countries want to procure an expensively maintained stuff like SSBN, it is something out of their league and capability. That's why Sokor, Turkiye, Singapore and so on is seeking much more humble platform like U-209 and U-214 from one US allied countries such as Germany.

I used Virginia as an example because the other purchases by US/Euro allies are not latest tech. My point is sensitive latest tech will never be sold or tech transfer even to the closest US allies. That is why S Korea is still trying to build their own destroyers, etc.

 

[Oldman1]

That's why I said, Chinese are using the quantity factor against such measures. Put it this way; say for example if it gets loggerheads between you and Chinese in the East China sea where you have CBG deployed around, if you send four CBGs to attack them apart from the air force stationed in Japan and Korea; who do you think will have the home turf advantage? Even with massive ships, the Chinese would be able to store thousands of missiles on their landmass which will naturally be quantitatively much more than what a few dozen warships, submarines and jets can store.

Yes you are right that there will be further measures added like smart decoys jamming etc. But China's ability to replenish stock in their own country will be much higher than any invading military no matter how strong its logistical supply chain is.

________

Now replace China with Australia. For their landmass, resources and assets that they sit on, their army is tiny and limited; their navy is modern but again is limited in size and their air force is extremely small. In case shit hits the fan, they need to buy time before you and the rest of NATO can come to their help. You tell me, even with 150 F-35s and say 30+ F/A-18SHs, how long do you think they could hold on?

They will need much more before any help can come.

If I want to target China in my view, I would launch thousands of long range cruise missiles to take out the shipyards, airbases, fuel depots, etc. Also I would mine their ports and naval bases and create a blockade with our own submarines. With missiles even on F18s, they can fire from about 1,000km away. Also jamming and smart decoys helps when targeting SAMs when active. Also target with cruise missiles and emp ordinance on substation to interfere their industries and economy. Its been done before in Serbia in real actual combat. You got to be honest, against the U.S. Navy and Air Force, home turf does not matter especially when we already have forces in the Pacific in South Korea, Japan, etc. and fought for it since WW2. Same as in Serbia, Iraq when they had good defenses. But in the end it overwhelms them. Sure we will lose aircraft but the other side tends to suffer more.

 

[Pakistani shaheens]

Your comment is not incoherent with the actual facts, US has give their allies their up to date Arleigh Burke Class destroyer and even the newly built F-15 , so why Chinese doesn't give their only one allies like Pakistan their Type 052 C or D destroyer and their J-10 B planes out of generousity, heck even Chinese doesn't give Pakistan their current tech for Type 99 MBT unlike US which has sell their Abrams to their allies at discounted prices such as Egypt, Greece and Saudi

Pakistan as agreement with china for J10B. Which will comes to PAF in 2015.