Australia says French company wins huge submarine contract

[bidonv]

By:uk.reuters.com
How France sank Japan's $40 billion Australian submarine dream

In 2014, a blossoming friendship between Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott and his Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe looked to have all but sewn up a $40 billion submarine deal. Then French naval contractor DCNS hatched a bold and seemingly hopeless plan to gatecrash the party.

Almost 18 months later, France this week secured a remarkable come-from-behind victory on one of the world's most lucrative defense deals. The result: Tokyo's dream of fast-tracking a revival of its arms export industry is left in disarray.

Interviews with more than a dozen Japanese, French, Australian and German government and industry officials show how a series of missteps by a disparate Japanese group of ministry officials, corporate executives and diplomats badly undermined their bid.

In particular, Japan misread the changing political landscape in Australia as Abbott fell from favor. The Japanese group, which included Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) (7011.T) and Kawasaki Heavy Industries (KHI), (7012.T) also failed to clearly commit to providing skilled shipbuilding jobs in Australia. And Tokyo realized far too late its bid was being outflanked by the Germans and particularly the French, the sources involved in the bid said.

France, on the other hand, mobilized its vast and experienced military-industrial complex and hired a powerful Australian submarine industry insider, Sean Costello, who led it to an unexpected victory.

Japan's loss represents a major setback for Abe's push to develop an arms export industry as part of a more muscular security agenda after decades of pacifism.

"We put our utmost effort into the bid," the head of the Ministry of Defense's procurement agency Hideaki Watanabe said after the result was announced on Tuesday. "We will do a thorough analysis of what impact the result will have on our defense industry."

By the end of 2014, Japan was still comfortably in the driving seat thanks to the relationship between Abe and Abbott, which had begun soon after Abbott's 2013 election and strengthened quickly.

Japan and Australia - key allies of the United States - had wanted to cement security ties to counter to China's growing assertiveness in the South China Sea and beyond.

FRENCH OVERTURES

Still, France saw an opportunity to get into the game. In November 2014, DCNS CEO Herve Guillou prevailed on French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian to visit Australia and start the pitch for France.

Le Drian traveled to Albany in the country's remote southwest, where officials had gathered to commemorate the 100 year anniversary of the first sailing of Australian soldiers to fight on France's Western Front during World War One......................Read more

 

[Penguin]

The Shortfin Barracuda Block 1A, designed specifically for the Royal Australian

 

[Spectre]

The Shortfin Barracuda Block 1A, designed specifically for the Royal Australian

Do you think that this version of Barracuda would have been selected if there were no geo-political considerations or apprehensions about Japanese capability? Purely on technical specifications proposed (as none of the subs including conventional barracuda short fin are currently in service) which would you have selected?

Also are there any Russian/British/Sweedish etc offerings which are superior in range and stealth for the same weight class

 

[Penguin]

http://poderiomilitar-jesus.blogspot.nl/2015_12_28_archive.html
http://defense-studies.blogspot.nl/2015/12/submarine-bids-now-in-australian-panel.html?m=1
http://www.kaskus.co.id/thread/5666...ds-now-in-australian-panel-begins-evaluation/

Best range and weapons load...

 

[Spectre]

http://poderiomilitar-jesus.blogspot.nl/2015_12_28_archive.html
http://defense-studies.blogspot.nl/2015/12/submarine-bids-now-in-australian-panel.html?m=1
http://www.kaskus.co.id/thread/5666...ds-now-in-australian-panel-begins-evaluation/

Best range and weapons load...

Any comparative offering from Russian or Chinese?

 

[Penguin]

http://gentleseas.blogspot.nl/2015/11/final-responses-for-cep-due-in-ten-days.html

Any comparative offering from Russian or Chinese?

No. Russian Lada is too small (Type 218SG size) and their Kilo is more like basic Soryu. Likewise type 039 and 039A/041.

Do you think that this version of Barracuda would have been selected if there were no geo-political considerations or apprehensions about Japanese capability? Purely on technical specifications proposed (as none of the subs including conventional barracuda short fin are currently in service) which would you have selected?

Also are there any Russian/British/Sweedish etc offerings which are superior in range and stealth for the same weight class

I think the article outlines the reasons for this choice pretty well. There is much to be said for a scaled back SSN. It is clear that the selection isn't just about technical merits though, but also about jobs in Australia and maintaining a base of submarine knowledge in Australian industry. So, a company that focusses exclusively on technical merit doesn't understand what the competition is about. Soyu or a SuperSoryu (which would equal the 216 in range) isn't an inferior sub. However, I'm not convinced that it is superior to the other two, particularly the French one. Of the three, the German proposal is the least mature (has yet to be developed) while the first SSN Barracuda is expected to commission at the end of 2017. Soryu is of course in service with JMSDF. That counts for something too.

The Brits have no offerings. The Russian Lada is too small, and the Kilo too old. The newest Swedish boats under development (A-26) are half the required dislacement. So, no.

 

[MKC]

http://poderiomilitar-jesus.blogspot.nl/2015_12_28_archive.html
http://defense-studies.blogspot.nl/2015/12/submarine-bids-now-in-australian-panel.html?m=1
http://www.kaskus.co.id/thread/5666...ds-now-in-australian-panel-begins-evaluation/

Best range and weapons load...

How many VLS these submarines have?
Also number of torpedos...

 

[Penguin]

How many VLS these submarines have?
Also number of torpedos...

They don't have VLS and the number of weapons carried is on one of the graphics.

 

[MKC]

They don't have VLS and the number of weapons carried is on one of the graphics.

My knowledge about subsurface warfare is too low & I couldn't find any good source to increase my knowledge.
Can you tell me what is the advantage of having this much displacement as submarines less than half size have a decent number of weapons like Amur class & Scorpenes class.
Also, I read somewhere Amur class can have 16 torpedos+10 VLS for AShM/Land attack missiles.
Also as wikipedia Type 216 have VLS.

 

[Audio]

Possibly wikipedia refers to "vertical multipurpose lock"? Although there are other graphics also from HDW that don't appear to show this system.

 

[Penguin]

My knowledge about subsurface warfare is too low & I couldn't find any good source to increase my knowledge.
Can you tell me what is the advantage of having this much displacement as submarines less than half size have a decent number of weapons like Amur class & Scorpenes class.
Also, I read somewhere Amur class can have 16 torpedos+10 VLS for AShM/Land attack missiles.
Also as wikipedia Type 216 have VLS.

If you want you can fit VLS to nearly any sub you want. Size gives you greater weapons carrying capability and longer endurance (more room for stores and fuel, more room for batteries, more room for AIP etc).

 

[bidonv]

By:www.channelnewsasia.com

French PM says all Australian submarines to be built in Australia

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said on Monday he was committed to building all of a new Australian submarine fleet in Australia, apparently contradicting the French contractor who said last week the deal would create jobs in France.
CANBERRA: French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said on Monday he was committed to building all of a new Australian submarine fleet in Australia, apparently contradicting the French contractor who said last week the deal would create jobs in France.

Valls stopped off in Australia while headed to New Zealand for a scheduled visit, just days after Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said France had beaten out Japan and Germany for the AUS$50 billion (£26.01 billion) contract.

Valls said he would personally oversee the drafting of the contract, one of the world's biggest defence deals, between France's state-owned naval contractor DCNS Group and Australia over the next few months.

"We would like to conclude as soon as possible this contract," Valls told reporters through an interpreter after meeting Turnbull.

"We will now deliver on all of our commitments .. the choice of the Australian contract was to have the 12 submarines built in Australia and that was the basis of our agreement."

Comments by DCNS chief Hervé Guillou last week that the deal would create about 4,000 jobs in French shipyards caused consternation in Australia, where the contract was heavily sold as a local build.

The deal will likely play a critical role in Australia's general election due on July 2, with it expected to shore up support for the ruling Liberal Party-led coalition in the state of South Australia where the bulk of benefits will flow.

The victory for DCNS underscored France's strengths in developing a compelling military-industrial bid, and was a blow for Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's push to develop defence export capabilities as part of his security agenda.

Japan, with its Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries boat, had been seen as the early frontrunner, but their inexperience in global defence deals and an initial reluctance to say they would build in Australia saw them slip behind DCNS and Germany's ThyssenKrupp AG.

"Right from the beginning it was supposed to be a partnership that would create jobs right from the beginning, so it is a win-win partnership," Valls said.

DCNS' share of the overall contract to build 12 submarines will amount to about 8 billion euros (£6.28 billion), according to sources with knowledge of the deal.

Turnbull said the potential to transition the fleet into a nuclear-powered one was not a factor in the decision.

Australia is increasing defence spending, seeking to protect interests in the Asia-Pacific as the United States and its allies grapple with China's rising power....................See more

 

[BoQ77]

Japanese companies tend to keep high tech jobs within Japan.

 

[Super Falcon]

Who said India getting barracuda after mother of all deals become mother of all orphanages most countries are now don't want to waste money and time on ur deals and top of it u ask them for bribes so profit for countries to sell u weapons is very low

Why all ur defence deals has attached bribes

Augesta westaland helicopter deal
Tehlka in 2000
Bofors deal in 80s

 

[Taygibay]

"apparently contradicting the French contractor who said last week the deal would create jobs in France."

That's not true. Yes, DCNS boss mentioned the hulls for the first 2 to be made in France
because it might be necessary to respect the schedule due to lead time in gearing up the
Aussie shipyards ... and yes, Valls as national boss disregarded such thing in his assertion.

But the end choice will rest with/in Canberra.

And it will create close to those 4,000 in any case. The adaptation of the nuke design, new
engines integration, collaboration with American war system makers and ensuing integration,
Oz specifics of the fleet, etc, this will require more than a handful of engineers in any case!


Have a good day Bidonv and keep those news pieces coming, mate, Tay.