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Attack on security convoy in NW; 12 soldiers martyred

Salute to the brave mens and their families.
These coward bastards terrorist must be wiped out....these aren't Muslims and are backed by anti Pakistan forces (Raw, Mossad maybe CIA).
The only thing that came in my mind is that these talibans and anti Pakistani forces will never win against us, because we love our country and we love Islam, they will never scare us with these coward acts.:angry:

Pakistan will be the winner, we will made it like we did it in the past!!:bounce:

Pak-Armed Forces and Pakistan Zindabad!:pakistan:
 
Very sad news, May Allah give them Janat Firdus, Ameen.

I have seen many times army trucks carrying army jawans in mountain areas of NWFP on different news chennals , all these areas are very dangrous , our army have APC , Why PA not using them?
 
Ok!
Well i can see some emotions around and that is something very natural. 12 brave souls dieing without any guud reason, perhaps military's own lapse. i can understand that how some members here have accused senior officers and commanders, one, for not planning the move properly, two, not providing the troops with better protection. i dont shed away the factor of lapse or may be i should use a better word; bad luck from this incident but again i would like to clarify certain things so as to make the worthy members understand our limitations, difficulties and short comings.

Someone PMed me about this incident and asked about the fact that why we dont use hardened vehicles/IED proof vehicles during move. Well the answer is that all the factors are taken into consideration as regards to the enemy before any move is planned, but when it comes to protection against an ambush we, rather everyone simply lacks it! When i say everyone lacks it i mean that there is nothing completely immune to ambushes, nor can these lethal blows can be completely countered. Yes there are drills and procedures to fore-see, counter and repulse ambushes but then the luck, initiative, surprise, selection of time and location is with the enemy. Very set and deliberate SOPs and aniti-ambush drills are taught and practiced in the military but it is because of the nature of such attacks that these are nearly impossible to counter. This is the THE most favored tactics used in guerrilla warfare an d is the most difficult to counter.

Now as for purchasing IED-Proof vehicles and providing hardened vehicles i would say that for countering the IEDs we do have 'something' in our kitty and we do make use of it frequently but it ofcourse is cumbersome and risky so its use has to be planned judicially! Second, as for the bomb proof sorta equipment, the last time i checked a similar vehicle online it costed minimum $1 Million a piece for the US forces, now keeping in view the requirement that we have of such vehicles, to buy these we need something more than money!


MK very rightly pointed out that why there was no aerial recce ahead of the convoy move, yes that's a valid point as we do make use of such tactics in ambush prone areas. Now why wouldnt the helis were employed here, truly i am not sure, but what i know is that Sir Kiyani has made it amply clear to commanders at all levels that lapse would not be tolerated. This quote is not in relevance to the current law enforcement operation, but was thoroughly clarified when he took over the command. So if someone says that it was a lapse on the part of the military then i would politely beg to differ as this would not be the case as getting a man killed for nothing is the most criminal thing a commander can do and utmost care is taken to avoid such repetitions. Now why the aerial recce was not provided, well what i can make out of the situation is that as either the area was already cleared by own forces and the route was kinda considered safe or may be the priority of air employment did not justify the use of helis in this case. As use of air is again a very important aspect of our military and its employment is made on merit and priorities. Priorities i would omit but i can assure that NOW the Pakistan Army dont shy of making use of air power, so there has to be guud reason why the helis were not used which i am not aware of.

Keeping in view the terrain where own forces are operating it is safe to say that there is an ambush site after every kilometer, now carrying out the drills and counter measures would require a very judicious use of judgment, experience, and enemy situation, therefore one cannot stop at every ambush site and look for the bastards. Now it may seem stupid when i say this, but really things are VERY fluid and difficult on ground. Mind that the heaviest casualties in Iraq and Afghansitan that the Occupation Forces have suffered were due to these ambushes!!

These kind of loses are bound to happen, but i can assure you that they are less as they could have actually been if opur miitary would not have been taking the appropitae measues in this ragrads. We are very much aware of such things and we do act accordingly, however there is nioting 100% in War! Things might not be clear if they come from news articles ansd reports and can mislead sometimes, but things are quite different on ground and no one knows them better than the ones operating on ground.

Lastly
Warren Zinn rightly says and i quote:

There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole. During an ambush, you're praying for everything and anything you can think of.

May the souls of the martyred get the highest place in heaven and may we succeed in our task ASAP! Ameen!
 
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lutenit colonel among the 12 martyr.
Allah bless their soul.
ALLAH O AKBAR
Pakistan army Zindabad
Pakistan paindabad
 
Hi,

Once the fog of war clearsaway---and the truth comes out---we will find out the incompetence of the highest level on this troop movement through a very narrow pass.

The sacrifices of the millitary men are not the issue over here---the issue over here is that so many of them are killed due to the incompetence of the higher ups.

There is definitely a problem with the mindset of the brigadiers and generals of pak army---I believe that they are still not sure about their roles----they are unable to understand the security threat posed by the taliban---they are unsure how to move in this difficult terrain. There is a lack of committment to the soldiers and junior officers from the senior staff---.

It seems like someone intentionally wants the soldiers and junior officers killed----I say junior officers ( lt, capt, major---because the junior officer in pak army leads from the front---the practise to which I totally disagree.

Pak army has the resource---it should have been used at critical junctures like this narrow pass---air recce should have been carried out well in advance and at the time of troop movement.

Some general would have made the staement----"kucch nahin hota---chaloo cahloo troops ko move karo"----nothing will happen---come on move the troops.

The news that I am reading---the one that agnostic muslim posted on another page---I swear---the performance of pak millitary mindset is absolutely pathetic---the intelligence gathering---eavesdropping---keeping an eye from up in the air on taliban movement---it does not gives a very bright picture of pak army in motion----as a matter of fact---if you disect the news---you will be shocked at the level of incompetence showed.
 
RIP Soldiers.
May God bless you with success in this operation!
 
may allah bless our shaheeds.
It just proves non of these bastard talibans are friends. They act as friends to get time and money . But strike when it suits them.
KILL THEM ALL. NO EXCEPTIONS
 
washingtonpost.com

Deadly Ambush Could Indicate Threat to Pakistan's Army

By Joshua Partlow
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, June 30, 2009

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, June 29 -- The Pakistani military is at war with the Taliban, but the ambush that killed 16 soldiers in the tribal region of North Waziristan on Sunday was still somewhat unexpected.

"There is no operation which was either planned or being conducted in North Waziristan," Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, a Pakistani military spokesman, told reporters Monday. "This attack was completely unprovoked."

The Taliban assault on an army convoy passing through the village of Inzar Kas was one of the deadliest incidents for the military during its two-month-old offensive against the insurgents. But to some analysts, it also served as a warning of a bigger threat -- the possibility that disparate Taliban factions might be closing ranks to battle the army in Pakistan.

The group that has asserted responsibility for Sunday's ambush is led by Hafiz Gul Bahadur, one of the many militant commanders in Pakistan and Afghanistan who fight -- sometimes against each other -- under the banner of the Taliban. In early 2008, Bahadur's group struck a peace deal with the local administration in North Waziristan, a mountainous tribal region along the Afghan border where the Pakistani government exerts little control. But a spokesman for his group announced Monday that because of U.S. drone bombings and Pakistani military activity, that peace has been shattered.

"We will carry out attacks on the security forces," Hamdullah Hamdi told reporters.

The failure of the accord in North Waziristan is a blow to the government as it plans a major operation in neighboring South Waziristan, home of Baitullah Mehsud, Pakistan's main Taliban foe and the man blamed for multiple suicide bombings and the assassination of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto. The region to the north is important because military strategists expect to use it as a transit route for ground troops and supplies.

Bahadur's call to arms followed another announcement by a formerly pro-government Taliban commander in South Waziristan, Maulvi Nazir, who last week warned that his fighters intend to target the military in response to its offensive and the drone strikes.

"These two, Maulvi Nazir and Hafiz Gul Bahadur, they were focused on Afghanistan," said Mahmood Shah, a security analyst and retired Pakistani army brigadier with experience in the northwestern tribal areas. "What we've heard is they've called back their fighters from Afghanistan and are bringing them to Pakistan."

Earlier last week, the government suffered yet another setback to its efforts to turn other fighters against Mehsud, when Taliban commander Qari Zainuddin, an enemy of Mehsud's, was killed by one of his own security guards.

"It was too naive to think he could defeat Baitullah Mehsud," Shah said of Zainuddin.

The string of developments suggests that the government's new efforts to take on Mehsud in South Waziristan could prove more challenging than its recent push into the Swat Valley, where military officials say they have nearly regained the territory from the Taliban. For the past two weeks, aircraft have strafed Mehsud's territory in preparation for a ground assault against his thousands of followers.

"The militants' attacks on military convoys and installations in North Waziristan are part of a well-thought-out Taliban strategy to expand the war to other territories from South Waziristan, where the army is currently operating," said Talat Masood, a defense analyst and retired general. "We will see more such attacks in coming days."

Special correspondents Haq Nawaz Khan and Shaiq Hussain contributed to this report.
 
"These two, Maulvi Nazir and Hafiz Gul Bahadur, they were focused on Afghanistan," said Mahmood Shah, a security analyst and retired Pakistani army brigadier with experience in the northwestern tribal areas. "What we've heard is they've called back their fighters from Afghanistan and are bringing them to Pakistan."

I guess this means these good Taliban are now BAD Taliban..

Is this where I say 'I Told you so', but why bother too many believe too often there is such a thing as a good taliban in Pakistan..
Good luck with your blind belief in this good and bad rhetoric.
 
As for the deal, I’m sorry, but to attack a Pakistani army convey, without a deceleration of war by Bahdur, shows he is a fu*cking coward, someone who contravened Islam’s highest ideals [breaking a truce] and should be killed. Enough of these peace deals with these animals.

Good Taliban my ***!

It is beyond belief, that aerial escorts were not being used in conjunction with the convey, especially since Gul Bahdur’s men had already launched a prior ambush a few days earlier. What were people expecting, a change of heart from him?
 
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It is beyond belief, that aerial escorts were not being used in conjunction with the convey,

How many aerial assets do we have? Are they enough to provide escorts to every single convoy in FATA and Swat, especially with active operations in Swat and Waziristan (albeit Waziristan has not seen a major ground offensive)?

I can't comment as a layman on whether there were lapses by the officers in charge of the convoy, but I do not automatically agree that it is possible for the PA to provide air support to all its convoys.

Corrections welcome however.
 
What are the chance whoever was commanding the convey or gave a clearance to convey ,won't see the court marshal ?
 
How many aerial assets do we have? Are they enough to provide escorts to every single convoy in FATA and Swat, especially with active operations in Swat and Waziristan (albeit Waziristan has not seen a major ground offensive)?

I can't comment as a layman on whether there were lapses by the officers in charge of the convoy, but I do not automatically agree that it is possible for the PA to provide air support to all its convoys.

Corrections welcome however.


I’m afraid the operational strength of the gunships is well under for the situation we face. Most assets have been designated to the Swat region and people were under the impression, this region was all peachy. I have heard many estimates with the lowest being just 15 operational cobra’s, with a high of 40. Our requests for more helicopters have been met with luke warm response by the US, they transferred five airlift copters a month back and no one else has bothered. This why it is imperative we make this priority number one and press forward the deal of the forty or so new choppers
 
What are the chance whoever was commanding the convey or gave a clearance to convey ,won't see the court marshal ?
The Lt Col in the convoy was killed. Do you want to court martial over his grave?
 
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