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Attack on PNS Mehran Base - PAF Faisal Base

The idea is to tolerate the terrorists, the odd antagonistic or cynical Indian, The Questioning American and the uber secularist.
Ill admit it hasnt worked out well lately ...
especially with the badd-lagam hyper half baked Islamic revolutionists here.. whom I consider more deadly than the uber secularists, the "anti-Pakistan" elements-that-shall-not-be-named and others.
Those characters I know and can make a distinction with, they stand separate.. these guys are being brainwashed to become the "aasteen ka saanp" for this country.. and the religion.

Problem lies with equal opportunity, when I started on this forum, I came here for CWC and then got stuck with the forum as it provides wider platform to discuss.

I have noticed since, that the forum has been deteriorating slowly; there are couple of actions that I can suggest.

- There is a need to check and prohibit clones from same IP. Internet Café can contact management of forum, and seek permission to be allowed to have multiple connections.

- If the connecting IP is from outside Pakistan, default flag of that country should automatically be selected for “location” flag and should not be allowed to change.

Other than this, I totally agree with your badd-lagam hyper half baked Islamic revolutionists and badd-lagam hyper half baked uber secularists.

Pakistan was never meant to be for any of these, and should be cleansed of them!!
 
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S2,

Welcome to the board----been a longtime.

We are in the process of watching the begining of the end game.

My assessment of Kiyani was not favourable from day one----I deemed him to be a very poor leader of men right from the begining. Quiet men---men who don't talk much are either hiding their incompetence by not speaking---or hiding their deceit by not talking much. When you compare him to generals like Schawrzkopf, Tommy Franks, Mcrystal, Collin Powell, Gen Musharraf---you can feel and see the difference right away----all these were leaders of men who could talk and express themselves in front of a public forum very convincingly---all these were also men of action. You saw something in them that was predictable---like regular people.

With Kiyani there is too much deceit in the air----.

Okay---now---looking at the reaction---or I would say, non reaction---a timely non reaction by pak millitary and pak politicians---I believe that pakistani public can start wrapping up whatever is left of the country----. Today the country's leadership and the public is as lost as the king and the muslim army of Baghdad during the mongol invasion and siege of the nations capitol---baghdad.

The mongol armies were advancing throughtout the kindgom of baghdad ----and the muslims were arguing the grammatical intricacies of Qura'an---whether it is grammatiocvally male or is it a female----if they were not not arguing about that then they were arguing about the direction of ka'aba----if it was 2* to the right or 2* to the left.

My children----you all have read those historical facts about your muslim heritage---the geart defeats that your ancestors had and what they were doing during those defeats----isn't it so interesting and fascination to see yourself live through those times in reality----isn't it truly amazing that now you are doing the same thing that your fore fathers did 700 years---800 years---900 years or a 1000 years ago. So, tell me now---what do you feel when you are living and passing through this time warp---I would like to know the truth from some of you---.


Doesn't this amaze you that you and I are gouing to be a part of the history from 500 years from now---and our fore children---if there are any alive would be treading the same stuff about us---repeating the same mistakes that others made centuries ago.

Well---congratulations to you all----you are going to be an integral part of the history---so pucker up and -----!


But if you want some salvation-----then here is a suggestion-----



Pakistan chose to be at these cross roads that it is on today out of sheer ignorance, arrogance, lack of knowledge in understanding the mindset of the terrorists and the fundamentalists---mostly those who were nationless, or kicked out their countries.

With as much enthusiaism as pakistan wants to stick its head in the sand, the taliban want to pull it out of the muck with an equal amount of zeal, excitement and candor. Whereas the pakistanis want to hide their faces from facing the truth that is looking them right in the eyes, the taliban keep bringing the mirror right in front of them.

The pakistanis are fooling themselves into believing that, no, it is not the taliban---it is not the muslims who are doing this----the taliban keep on harping that yes it is them who are doing these acts of terror---yes they are the so called muslims who are doing it to the pakistanis---their brethren in belief and faith.

It has been long overdue, but today's actions have brought daylight to the issue in a newer and different manner. The taliban have gone on an all out assault on the integrity of pakistan and its very existence.

To counter that--- pakistan needs to do something equally radical. It is an absolute neccessity and it is imperative that pakistan install a homeland seurity department and and install an anti terror CZAR to oversee this department.

The anti terror czar would have the same authority as indian General Brar had during the blue star operation. There would also be a sort of emergency enforced in the country----there would be a seperate wing incharge of dealing with security and anti terror activities. that same organization would also be in charge of the anti terrorist courts---which will prosecute and pass judgements at an expedited pace and the executions of the culprits will be carried out on a fast track basis.

The initial 30---90 days would be a massive cleanup operation wherein the anti terrorist forces will strike at any and every religious organization with any links to taliban, al qaeda or any other fanatic group. Their leadership will be taken out and neutralized in a similiar manner as it would have been taken out under the rule of any muslim KHALIFA.

The reason I am talking about the Khalifa / Khilafat is due to the fact that the pakistanis want Khialafat, but they don't have any clue as to what the Caliphs did to the insurgents or they have conveniently forgotten. The pakistanis praise that period in that islamic history as a great period of law and order.


Our history tells us that most of our Caliphs were ruthless against any insurrection, insurgency, religious fanaticism and religious hegemony.

The rules of engagement will be similiar to what the great khalifas of islam enforced aganist any insurrection and any terrorist anctivities against the state.

As a matter of fact, it would be in the benefit of the state to call up on a previuos example of isurrection and terrorist activity in the past history of the islamic states, find similiarities and act accordingly in an expedited and fastrack manner and show the people how it was crushed by the state, just to give legitimacy to its actions.

Islamic history, british history or the history of any nation breathing on the face of this earth----each and every free nation had its fair share of terrorists and insurgents who wanted to force their agendas on the state. They stretched the patience of the state thin in each and every state and nation---only the successful nations with built in character of strength, courage, vitality and perseverence to survive fought of these ruthless killers and murderers.

Pakistan had the choice and options open to it to nip it in the bud and kill the monster right at its infancy---you innocent fools---only fooling yourself into a make-belief----you nurtured it and it grew up into a monster and it is ready to consume you, devouver you and destroy you. It is high time that you take a stand to protect your integrity and honor and do something to stand up as a proud and free nation. Otherwise you will be slaughtered into a piecemeal---either in groups or one by one.

There is no escaping the jaws of the monster that we have created---only way possible is to show it the jaws of the state.

I can agree with most of what you are saying... however I should remind you that Imam Ali managed to convince 2000 Kharajis thru dialogue... We have never had any serious attempt towards dialogue (while guess what our enemies ARE engaging with them in dialogue)... and the reason why we cant talk to them to seek a way out is because we are guilty of war crimes too... There can be no talks as long as we allow drone strikes... once they are stopped, people who have been wronged can be convinced to come to table and discuss with us....

Don't count on a peace deal with Taliban - CNN.com

btw... I am getting some info that we have possibly lost some of our assets within the Afghan Taliban and they are now considering the Pakistani establishment as a legit target for attack... including both Army and Gov...

this is what happens when you have no justice... ultimately the few friends we have, we will lose them all... and someone is worried about the Caliphate isolating Pakistan from the rest of the world... as if we are not isolated already... what a joke (this one is nt directed at you Mastan)
 
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Dear Guest01 (were you recently banned from here?)

Since you have nt read anything on Islam (obviously) I dont think I ll waste my time with you...

As for plans and agendas... i have personally quoted numerous books and blueprints for the future on the forum... Pakistan can be a superpower if people were to study our material carefully and implement it... Now that does nt go well with some people in New Delhi and Washington D.C does it? :)

Don't you get the point? One does not need to read the history of Islam because this is not an theological discussion. The very fact that the Islamist narrative identifies a nation as a vestige of a religion is what is leading Pakistan to all this mess. Have you not even realized that? I wonder how else were you really diffferentiating between the Islamists and the Liberals all this while!! Good luck with your books and blueprints for super duper wooper hooper power.

And re the banning part, why do you ask. Did you ask for it?
 
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Mastankhan sir, nice words. In my view, and its just that, this ttp taliban s*** would have been taken care of in its entirety during these last few operations against them under gen. Kiyani. What's making this task nearly impossible is presence of US in the region. US presence gives legitimacy to taliban movement due to anti-US sentiments in Pak. Same people then see Pak army's action against taliban illegitimate, and also Pak army as US hired. So you can make the best anti-terror dept in Pakistan, it won't be much effective until and unless they see a legitimate reason.

If US leave tomorrow, taliban would loose their reason to fight along with theirlegitimacy among people, Pak forces can and will finish them off in matters of months.

Sensible man... thumbs up to you!!!
 
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Yes Pakistan is. All America has done is flushed out all the terrorists from Afghanistan and they have crossed the border in Pakistan. Its upto Pakistan, as to what it wants to do with these terrorists. And if you are going to tell me that Pakistan, the country which has one of the largest armies in the world doesn't have enough resources to pulverize these rag tag militia men, then its hard to buy. Why do you think America has to resort to drone attacks?

Thats what i am suggesting too, flush out all the terrorists from Pakistan, let them go where ever they want and then let the other governments deal with them. Our neighbours on all sides have very strong armies so they can take care of them easily. War on Terror is whole world's war, let some other countries bear "collateral" damage too, Pakistan can help by doing precision attacks to pulverize terrorists.

Thats actually a good idea, but would Pakistan take the responsibility next time a terrorist trained on its soils attacks some country? And America is partly to be blamed for the mess created in Afghanistan during the cold war, but Pakistan participated willingly. It wasn't forced to take part unlike this time. Pakistan itself was worried about the Soviet presence, and on top of that Pakistan gained a "bachelor pad" in the form of Afghanistan, where it did all its dirty works far away from home. Now the fruits of all those dirty deeds have walked into Pakistan, cause they don't have anywhere to go.

Terrorists were never trained on Pakistan's soil, they wouldn't want to come in a country where they have Army to deal with, in contrast to Pakistan, Afghanistan was the target for their training camps, everybody knows it, even your beloved LeT had training camps in Afghanistan and you know about them, don't you?

Pakistan didn't went in Soviet war willingly either, it was forced to join, like they have done it now.

Let me give you an information:

- Soviet war started in 1979, General Zia-ul-Huq became president in 1977, over throwing ZAB who was trying to create Islamic Bank.
- WoT started in 2001, General Prevaiz Musharraf became president in 1999, over throwing NS who did the Nuclear blasts.

2 year difference both times.. Coincidence? I highly doubt that.
 
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Found an interesting article in the Daily News of today. One may or may not agree with the writer's views, it provides some food for thought.


Fixing responsibility for PNS Mehran
Mosharraf Zaidi
Wednesday, May 25, 2011

A frank discussion about the inept, corrupt and callous political leadership in this country has its place. It just doesn’t have any place in this country right now. The PNS Mehran attack, along with the attack in Charsadda, and the two-pronged living nightmare of Osama Bin Laden residing in Pakistan, and the US invasion to kill him are just the most recent series of attacks that demonstrate that the primary public policy challenge in Pakistan today is national security.

There is little doubt that civilian governance is diseased. Corruption within the PPP government, a vision-impaired and DMG subservient PML N government in Punjab, a mediocre-acy in KP and Balochistan, and a patronage free-for-all between the MQM and the PPP in Sindh are all likely true.

Yet the corruption of the civilian governments in this country is not costing Pakistan the kind of blood and treasure that is being consumed by the current war on the people of Pakistan. Nor is the incompetence and stupidity of elected governments responsible for how this country has come to occupy the most uncomfortable title of the world’s most dangerous country.

Corrupt, visionless, amoral and inept civilian politicians are certainly contributors to the insecurity of ordinary life in Pakistan, and the insecurity that Pakistan inspires around the world. But they are passengers on this train. They can only be assigned tertiary responsibility for the environment that has allowed for events like the PNS Mehran attack to occur. The primary (and secondary) responsibility for Pakistan’s utter failure to counter and defeat the threats to its national security lies with the national security infrastructure of Pakistan – specifically, the Pakistan Army, the Pakistan Air Force, the Pakistan Navy and all associated and subservient organisations, including the Directorate for Inter Services Intelligence (ISI).

This national security infrastructure or the Pakistan military has enjoyed overwhelming dominance in the three most important aspects of the nation’s affairs for the duration of Pakistan’s 63 year existence. First, it has enjoyed the uncontested ability to officially define right and wrong, good and bad, of what constitutes the national interest. Second, it has enjoyed the nearly uncontested right to determine Pakistan’s closest friends, and Pakistan’s staunchest enemies. Finally, and most importantly, it has enjoyed the largest share of Pakistan’s wealth – both financial flows and claims to land, with almost no accountability to anyone (save the recent rigour with which US authorities determine which of the army’s claims it deems worthy of payment, and which it does not). Each of these three aspects represent the most dire crises in the project to create and sustain a Pakistan consistent with the vision of its founders, with the values of its citizens (Muslim and non Muslim) and with the stature of the world’s sixth most populous nation.

Let’s look at the first aspect. To the great and abiding detriment of this country’s people, the military has used its power to determine the “national interest” largely to promote and sustain a regressive, incomprehensibly rigid and retrograde version of Islam across the social, political and economic spectrum. If you want to get a taste of what the military’s pursuit of such an Islam has produced, look no further than the Chicago trial of Tahawwur Rana. The key witness in that case is a drug-dealing, double agent named David Headley. The fact that a shady criminal like Headley may enjoy greater credibility than the ministry of information, the Pakistan foreign office and its embassies, and the ISPR should tell us all we need to know about the value of the military’s cynical use of Islam to promote and sustain Islamist groups to pursue Pakistan’s national security and foreign policy objectives.

The use of Islam of course, also flows from the second aspect, which is the military’s decision to respond to Indian hostility and contempt for Pakistan, with its own brand of antagonism and aggression. This failed approach, manifest in multiple military embarrassments, including the 1971 surrender and vivisection of the Pakistani homeland, and the enduringly feckless Kargil disaster of 1998, has brought Pakistan nothing but humiliation.

The military’s insistence on an India-centric national project has allowed for a massive gulf between Islamabad and both Kabul and Tehran, Pakistan’s two most important neighbours. The military has pursued a policy of leasing out its services and this country’s society to far-away countries, including China, Saudi Arabia, and most cynically the United States. Worst of all, it has done so with an abiding dishonesty – stirring up anti US sentiment at will. The Americans aren’t stupid. Washington DC doesn’t trust Pakistan at either the strategic or the tactical level. This is what happens when inorganic “strategic” relations are pursued for short-term fiscal and tactical gain, rather than long-term vision. Meanwhile, all the advantages that Pakistan enjoyed against India – its smaller size and ability to be nimbler, its decidedly more monolithic society (more so than India’s certainly), and its unique geostrategic and geopolitical position – have been wasted.

The final aspect, the uncontested access to money and land, is possibly the most damaging. While the rest of the developing world, including Bangladesh, the supposedly dysfunctional Siamese twin that was “surgically” separated from us in 1971, educate their children, and cultivate their industries – Pakistan has been bankrupting itself to buy shiny toys for the handsome boys. Steaming heaps of these toys, like the P3C Orions that could not resist a few RPGs, are proof that national security does not get built on the back of military hardware. The nuclear programme seems not to have dulled, but in fact have whetted military appetite for hardware that is too sophisticated to maintain without foreign assistance.

While Pakistan burns, it also begs for hand outs in Moscow, Beijing, Riyadh, Abu Dhabi, and once again, most cynically, in Washington DC. Meanwhile, India competes with China for global influence, gives grants to Afghanistan and loans to Bangladesh (and blocks EU trade concessions to Pakistan at will). The economic vice that Pakistan finds itself in is both a product of ineffective national security policy, but also a source of national insecurity. The military has been the pilot that has guided us to this deserted fiscal island. No matter how many depraved Dominique Strauss-Kahns this country convinces to give it loans, there are no rescue missions on the way. Pakistan is going to have to swim back to safety and civilisation by itself.

How does that process begin? The Pakistani military has a poor track record in strategic thinking, relationship management and in long-term resource planning. The military not only needs to begin to alter the balance of power on major decision-making, it must also urgently begin to induct civilian expertise on issues where it clearly has no real comparative advantage.

Even more immediate however is the need for the military to divorce itself from all kinds of politics. There can be no apologia for the kinds of speeches made by leaders of groups like the LeT or JuD, much less the actions they advocate. Whether religious zealots do the bidding of the military or mainstream politicians, it is wrong. It skews discourse and introduces unpredictable schisms into state and society. We may not know enough about PNS Mehran to say it was an inside job, but we know more than enough about Pakistan. The damage being done to this country is, without question, an inside job. It can only be fixed from within. Of Pakistanis, by Pakistanis, and for Pakistanis.



The writer advises governments, donors and NGOs on public policy. Mosharraf Zaidi


Fixing responsibility for PNS Mehran
 
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I feel really sorry for this unending violence in Pakistan and pay my respects to those fallen in line of duty for the country.
 
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Found an interesting article in the Daily News of today. One may or may not agree with the writer's views, it provides some food for thought.


Fixing responsibility for PNS Mehran
Mosharraf Zaidi
Wednesday, May 25, 2011

A frank discussion about the inept, corrupt and callous political leadership in this country has its place. It just doesn’t have any place in this country right now. The PNS Mehran attack, along with the attack in Charsadda, and the two-pronged living nightmare of Osama Bin Laden residing in Pakistan, and the US invasion to kill him are just the most recent series of attacks that demonstrate that the primary public policy challenge in Pakistan today is national security.

There is little doubt that civilian governance is diseased. Corruption within the PPP government, a vision-impaired and DMG subservient PML N government in Punjab, a mediocre-acy in KP and Balochistan, and a patronage free-for-all between the MQM and the PPP in Sindh are all likely true.

Yet the corruption of the civilian governments in this country is not costing Pakistan the kind of blood and treasure that is being consumed by the current war on the people of Pakistan. Nor is the incompetence and stupidity of elected governments responsible for how this country has come to occupy the most uncomfortable title of the world’s most dangerous country.

Corrupt, visionless, amoral and inept civilian politicians are certainly contributors to the insecurity of ordinary life in Pakistan, and the insecurity that Pakistan inspires around the world. But they are passengers on this train. They can only be assigned tertiary responsibility for the environment that has allowed for events like the PNS Mehran attack to occur. The primary (and secondary) responsibility for Pakistan’s utter failure to counter and defeat the threats to its national security lies with the national security infrastructure of Pakistan – specifically, the Pakistan Army, the Pakistan Air Force, the Pakistan Navy and all associated and subservient organisations, including the Directorate for Inter Services Intelligence (ISI).

This national security infrastructure or the Pakistan military has enjoyed overwhelming dominance in the three most important aspects of the nation’s affairs for the duration of Pakistan’s 63 year existence. First, it has enjoyed the uncontested ability to officially define right and wrong, good and bad, of what constitutes the national interest. Second, it has enjoyed the nearly uncontested right to determine Pakistan’s closest friends, and Pakistan’s staunchest enemies. Finally, and most importantly, it has enjoyed the largest share of Pakistan’s wealth – both financial flows and claims to land, with almost no accountability to anyone (save the recent rigour with which US authorities determine which of the army’s claims it deems worthy of payment, and which it does not). Each of these three aspects represent the most dire crises in the project to create and sustain a Pakistan consistent with the vision of its founders, with the values of its citizens (Muslim and non Muslim) and with the stature of the world’s sixth most populous nation.

Let’s look at the first aspect. To the great and abiding detriment of this country’s people, the military has used its power to determine the “national interest” largely to promote and sustain a regressive, incomprehensibly rigid and retrograde version of Islam across the social, political and economic spectrum. If you want to get a taste of what the military’s pursuit of such an Islam has produced, look no further than the Chicago trial of Tahawwur Rana. The key witness in that case is a drug-dealing, double agent named David Headley. The fact that a shady criminal like Headley may enjoy greater credibility than the ministry of information, the Pakistan foreign office and its embassies, and the ISPR should tell us all we need to know about the value of the military’s cynical use of Islam to promote and sustain Islamist groups to pursue Pakistan’s national security and foreign policy objectives.

The use of Islam of course, also flows from the second aspect, which is the military’s decision to respond to Indian hostility and contempt for Pakistan, with its own brand of antagonism and aggression. This failed approach, manifest in multiple military embarrassments, including the 1971 surrender and vivisection of the Pakistani homeland, and the enduringly feckless Kargil disaster of 1998, has brought Pakistan nothing but humiliation.

The military’s insistence on an India-centric national project has allowed for a massive gulf between Islamabad and both Kabul and Tehran, Pakistan’s two most important neighbours. The military has pursued a policy of leasing out its services and this country’s society to far-away countries, including China, Saudi Arabia, and most cynically the United States. Worst of all, it has done so with an abiding dishonesty – stirring up anti US sentiment at will. The Americans aren’t stupid. Washington DC doesn’t trust Pakistan at either the strategic or the tactical level. This is what happens when inorganic “strategic” relations are pursued for short-term fiscal and tactical gain, rather than long-term vision. Meanwhile, all the advantages that Pakistan enjoyed against India – its smaller size and ability to be nimbler, its decidedly more monolithic society (more so than India’s certainly), and its unique geostrategic and geopolitical position – have been wasted.

The final aspect, the uncontested access to money and land, is possibly the most damaging. While the rest of the developing world, including Bangladesh, the supposedly dysfunctional Siamese twin that was “surgically” separated from us in 1971, educate their children, and cultivate their industries – Pakistan has been bankrupting itself to buy shiny toys for the handsome boys. Steaming heaps of these toys, like the P3C Orions that could not resist a few RPGs, are proof that national security does not get built on the back of military hardware. The nuclear programme seems not to have dulled, but in fact have whetted military appetite for hardware that is too sophisticated to maintain without foreign assistance.

While Pakistan burns, it also begs for hand outs in Moscow, Beijing, Riyadh, Abu Dhabi, and once again, most cynically, in Washington DC. Meanwhile, India competes with China for global influence, gives grants to Afghanistan and loans to Bangladesh (and blocks EU trade concessions to Pakistan at will). The economic vice that Pakistan finds itself in is both a product of ineffective national security policy, but also a source of national insecurity. The military has been the pilot that has guided us to this deserted fiscal island. No matter how many depraved Dominique Strauss-Kahns this country convinces to give it loans, there are no rescue missions on the way. Pakistan is going to have to swim back to safety and civilisation by itself.

How does that process begin? The Pakistani military has a poor track record in strategic thinking, relationship management and in long-term resource planning. The military not only needs to begin to alter the balance of power on major decision-making, it must also urgently begin to induct civilian expertise on issues where it clearly has no real comparative advantage.

Even more immediate however is the need for the military to divorce itself from all kinds of politics. There can be no apologia for the kinds of speeches made by leaders of groups like the LeT or JuD, much less the actions they advocate. Whether religious zealots do the bidding of the military or mainstream politicians, it is wrong. It skews discourse and introduces unpredictable schisms into state and society. We may not know enough about PNS Mehran to say it was an inside job, but we know more than enough about Pakistan. The damage being done to this country is, without question, an inside job. It can only be fixed from within. Of Pakistanis, by Pakistanis, and for Pakistanis.



The writer advises governments, donors and NGOs on public policy. Mosharraf Zaidi


Fixing responsibility for PNS Mehran

Mostly a good representation of problems of Pakistan, but for those who can read in-between the lines, there are contradictions in the article itself.. e.g.

The key witness in that case is a drug-dealing, double agent named David Headley. The fact that a shady criminal like Headley may enjoy greater credibility than the ministry of information, the Pakistan foreign office and its embassies, and the ISPR should tell us all we need to know about the value of the military’s cynical use of Islam to promote and sustain Islamist groups to pursue Pakistan’s national security and foreign policy objectives.

Proves that, the global community is willing to listen to a drug dealer and value it more than a sovereign country shows weakness on the Political side of rulers, a side where foreign ministry hadn't had a clue of what to do and doesn't know how to tackle. On the other hand, FO is without any FM in recent times when country is going through tough times and is suppose to have the "strongest" FM right now.

It is all good to pinpoint deficiencies in PA, PAF and PN along with ISI, IB and MI, but one needs to remember that "face" of a government is political government itself, they are suppose to be "leading" the country, if they cannot, then hand over the control to Military and then the public can ask them by themselves.

If the democratic government wishes to continue with democracy then they have to take stand and fight for the right of Pakistani citizen inside and outside. President is CIC, so any order given by him is going to be taken "as it is" by all forces, if the higher ups of forces deny it, he can order the juniors to over throw them, as the highest authority in command, everyone will listen to him. (in perfect conditions)

Otherwise, i am afraid to say, within few more months, you'll see a blood bath on the streets when civilians take matters in their own hands, Civil war or as they call it "revolution" it seems will be eminent.
 
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Ironically some dellusional Pakistanis yearn for Khilafat but never in our history we were ever ruled by any Khalifa (apart from Sindh). And why is there a tendency among Pakistanis to talk about the historical events took place in places like Iraq or Syria in a way as if we were directly involved in them. When the Mongol invaded Baghdad we Muslims were doing this and when we Muslims ruled over Spain for 800 years.

We are unable to acheive anything worthy in any field but we have assumed that just being a Muslim it is our Allah's given right to own every achievement accomplished by other nations (Persians, Turks or Arabs) just because we are the follower of the same religion.

I guess you being a "Muslim" forgot there is no "nationality" in Islam.

By Islam's definition, we are ONE nation, otherwise, Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was an Arab, so should we not accept Islam??
 
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I think Pakistan must distinguish between terrorism and overt acts of war. This wasn't a civilian target by any means, so it can't be terrorists who did this...right? Someone help me out.

Also, very curious that the TTP can just out and out claim responsibility for any attack, without much proof or cross examination by authorities. As far as God knows, Pakistan could be at war with Mozambique. You must identify your targets better.
 
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I guess you being a "Muslim" forgot there is no "nationality" in Islam.

By Islam's definition, we are ONE nation, otherwise, Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was an Arab, so should we not accept Islam??

There is no Nationality in Islam, does that mean as a Muslim I can land in some Muslim country without any passport and dwell there as long as I like.

Recently Kuwait stopped visas, travel, tourism and trade with five Muslim nation including Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan.

What does that mean?

Are they Muslim and we are not, or are we Muslim and they are not?

We all follow Islam so why do we need to get Visa's to travel to their countries and vice versa.

The times of the Prophet (SAW) were different, then all the Muslim were under one rule and one government.

Now Muslims can be found all over the world and Islam teaches us to be faithful to the country we live in.
 
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and where does the American terrorists fit in your Khilafat model- what will the Caliph do to terrorists like Raymond Davis;

a) behead the useless American terrorist
b) have a cup of tea with the terrorist

I would also like to know, how your proposed model of Khilafat will deal with liberal fascists, american boot lickers and most importantly, will your Khilafat model enforce Islamic laws in the state.

Now lets see if you are really sincere or just using the name of Khilafat to propagate Americanized agenda.

You have to give it to him... at least he is not associating the Caliphate with dark ages... LOL

Many thanks Mastan for finally supporting the Caliphate... I salute you sir... ;)

---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ----------

and you Americans... stop blocking me from posting on this forum... I know what you are trying to do... back off...

Webmaster, Mods... please move this server out of America... many thanks
 
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Even the Arabs have abandoned the Caliphate idea. In fact many millions of Muslims helped the West bring the Ottomans to their knees finally, to the betterment of Turkey and many Arabs. It took the West of the backs off the Turks, you can't present yourself as such prime targets for dismantlement. It's akin to the Vatican city going out on heroic conquests. It's not logical and will meet to much fierce resistance.
 
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The idea is to tolerate the terrorists, the odd antagonistic or cynical Indian, The Questioning American and the uber secularist.
Ill admit it hasnt worked out well lately ...
especially with the badd-lagam hyper half baked Islamic revolutionists here.. whom I consider more deadly than the uber secularists, the "anti-Pakistan" elements-that-shall-not-be-named and others.
Those characters I know and can make a distinction with, they stand separate.. these guys are being brainwashed to become the "aasteen ka saanp" for this country.. and the religion.

The problem is all those people who keep their hyper inflated egos above the very sanctity of Islam, our dear Prophet Muhammad saw and this Pakistan the majority of whose people desire Islam...
 
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The problem is all those people who keep their hyper inflated egos above the very sanctity of Islam, our dear Prophet Muhammad saw and this Pakistan the majority of whose people desire Islam...

If they want Islam then give them Islam, run in the elections and get the people to vote for you, if they want Islam they will vote for you.

If you want to bring it by force, do it, bring it via force, if the people want Islam, they will support you.

Just end the damn thing already as things are getting worse by the minute.

This way I can finally decide if this country for me or not.
 
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