Asw Carrier /Helicopter Carrier in PN.

[TOPGUN]

Guys i know we have talked about something close to this before! about no need for a Aircraft Carrier but wat about a Asw Carrier if not then a Helicpoter Carrier would be nice something we could handel i saw some pic's of the french navy and us Marines have them as well. I think it could enhance or Navy it could be used as for Sub opps and a mobile station for or navy ssg's wat do you guys think ? its just a thought saw some pic's so i came up with the thought i mean with some projects in place like the Gawder project we need to enhance our navy a bit more after these years its getting some where in a slow process . I was also looking at INS Jalashwa that India bought from US former U.N. Navy Trenton its a Amphibious Transport Dock why can't we get someything like this ? share your view plzz guys thx.

 

[JK!]

I don't think a large scale LPH is what Pakistan needs but I like the idea of the smaller assault ships like the Albion class in service with the Royal Navy. I think they could be useful for peacekeeping operations.

 

[TOPGUN]

Totally agree yes something like that it could be used for special opps,sub opps and for our ssg's and yes even peace keeping .

 

[fatman17]

I don't think a large scale LPH is what Pakistan needs but I like the idea of the smaller assault ships like the Albion class in service with the Royal Navy. I think they could be useful for peacekeeping operations.

come on guys lets be realistic! it just dosnt make good sense

 

[TOPGUN]

come on guys lets be realistic! it just dosnt make good sense

And why not Fatman ? can you give me realastic answer to that why dont agree thx boss! good day

 

[fatman17]

And why not Fatman ? can you give me realastic answer to that why dont agree thx boss! good day

Topgun - i want to ask a question with a question? what is the strategic doctrine of the PN?.the answer in hidden somewhere in it.

 

[TOPGUN]

Topgun - i want to ask a question with a question? what is the strategic doctrine of the PN?.the answer in hidden somewhere in it.

Right buddy lol thx !!

 

[Energon]

A Helicopter carrier cannot be used against an equitable or a more powerful adversary in an offensive operation without a fixed wing complement to safeguard the airspace. Such ships in the time of war are usually a part of a CBG.
The PN as of now does not seem to have the funds or the training for such operations; and in the absence of weaker coastal adversaries a ship of this sort will only be relegated to humanitarian missions. Humanitarian missions are undoubtedly an important operational component of today's naval forces; however there aren't too many developing nations who can afford to buy large ships that are expensive to maintain for this sole purpose. Hence, its just not cost effective for the PN to acquire such a vessel.

 

[TOPGUN]

Then if not these then wat is it that we need in PN and in the near future to safeguard or land ?

 

[fatman17]

Then if not these then wat is it that we need in PN and in the near future to safeguard or land ?

well lets see what we have and in the pipeline

surface
6 amazon class frigates
4 sword class frigates - by 2013

3 minehunters
various types of FAC - chinese (10) and Turkish (3) equipped with ASMs.
oil tankers (2)

sub-surface
3 agosta 2B
3 merlins - by 2012

air
10 PC-3s ASW
6 SeaKings ASW
F-27s maritime reconn.
3 PC-3 with Hawkeye - 2000 - by 2010

air-support
Mirage III/V - Exocet ASMs
JF-17s - Exocet ASMs or Harpoon ASMs (?) - by 2010

what we could use is a few destroyers.

for a Navy which has to defend our southern shores and our EEZs and ensure our sea lanes remain open, it seems ok.

quality over quantity!

 

[z9-ec]

In addition to fatman17's list;

SSN, Naval babur and VLS.

All of which are being addressed.

Thats all we need.

 

[zeeshuisb]

What we need is a LHD+Helicopter carrier+Command and control ship for our marines and navy for force projection Like the DCNS Mistral LHD. it must be a new LHD which can support the navy for the next 30 years. not like indian aircraft carrier which is not even an aircraft carrier but an amphibious assault ship. 30-40 years old ship with a dozen or more old sea harrier onboard. its better to operate an air squadren for naval support for the coastal defense instead of a 30-50 years old steel of Virat or Admiral Gorshkov class

 

[Tomahawk]

PN should look for some small or medium size aircraft carrier, like Britian will soon decommission its Invincible Class Aircraft Carriers, the first of wihich will be taken out of service in 2010.
But if PN plans to get that, extensive re-fits and upgradation of combat systems (like installation of some modern SAM System) need to be carried out so that this ship can serve PN for atleast 20 ~ 25 years; and for this we need finance. But at first Pakistan needs to put its case strongly through proactive diplomacy.
Invincible Class Aircraft Carrier is still better than INS Viraat (former HMS Hermes R12) which is also of British origin Centaur Class.
In the present scenario, sooner or later PN have to seriously think to have one small to medium size aircraft carrier or they might already have started working on that.

Some Information and Pics regarding the Invincible Class Aircraft Carriers are given below:

AIRCRAFT

The Tailored Air Group (TAG) is composed of up to 24 aircraft including up to nine combined RAF/RN Joint Force Harrier GR7/GR9 aircraft. The Royal Navy FA2 Sea Harrier aircraft were progressively withdrawn from service from March 2004 and the last squadron was decommissioned in March 2006.

The TAG includes a mix of helicopters, depending on role: Sea King ASaC Mk 7 airborne early warning helicopters, Sea King and Chinook support helicopters and Merlin HM.1 anti-submarine helicopters.

The runway is about 170m long with a ski ramp set at 12°. In the hangar deck the aircraft are tethered to the floor using securing chains with tension clamps. Strachan and Henshaw have been contracted to install a replacement aircraft carrier lift system. Selex Sensors & Airborne Systems (formerly Galileo Avionica) was contracted to supply the SPN-720 precision approach radar for the landing of Harrier GR9 aircraft on Ark Royal and Illustrious in February 2005. The radar system, with a new TACAN (Tactical Air Navigation) system, entered service on the vessels in April 2008.

SENSORS

The BAE Systems Type 909 G/H-band fire control radar, which provided target tracking and illumination for the Sea Dart missile, has been removed from the three carriers. BAE Systems Type 996 surface search radar antennae is mounted very high on the tower between the two funnels. HMS Ark Royal has Type 992.

Both radars operate at E and F bands. BAE Systems Type 1022 air search radar operates at D band. HMS Invincible and Ark Royal are equipped with Kelvin Hughes Type 1006 navigation radar and HMS Illustrious has Type 1007, both operating at I band.
Qinetiq, with Babcock Design & Technology, has been awarded a contract to provide an advanced technology mast communications and radar mast for HMS Ark Royal. The sensors and antennas are housed within the structure, protected from the environment.

The sonar system is the hull-mounted Type 2016 active / passive search and attack sonar by Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar).

 

[IceCold]

PN should look for some small or medium size aircraft carrier, like Britian will soon decommission its Invincible Class Aircraft Carriers, the first of wihich will be taken out of service in 2010.
But if PN plans to get that, extensive re-fits and upgradation of combat systems (like installation of some modern SAM System) need to be carried out so that this ship can serve PN for atleast 20 ~ 25 years; and for this we need finance. But at first Pakistan needs to put its case strongly through proactive diplomacy.
Invincible Class Aircraft Carrier is still better than INS Viraat (former HMS Hermes R12) which is also of British origin Centaur Class.
In the present scenario, sooner or later PN have to seriously think to have one small to medium size aircraft carrier or they might already have started working on that.

Some Information and Pics regarding the Invincible Class Aircraft Carriers are given below:

AIRCRAFT

The Tailored Air Group (TAG) is composed of up to 24 aircraft including up to nine combined RAF/RN Joint Force Harrier GR7/GR9 aircraft. The Royal Navy FA2 Sea Harrier aircraft were progressively withdrawn from service from March 2004 and the last squadron was decommissioned in March 2006.

The TAG includes a mix of helicopters, depending on role: Sea King ASaC Mk 7 airborne early warning helicopters, Sea King and Chinook support helicopters and Merlin HM.1 anti-submarine helicopters.

The runway is about 170m long with a ski ramp set at 12°. In the hangar deck the aircraft are tethered to the floor using securing chains with tension clamps. Strachan and Henshaw have been contracted to install a replacement aircraft carrier lift system. Selex Sensors & Airborne Systems (formerly Galileo Avionica) was contracted to supply the SPN-720 precision approach radar for the landing of Harrier GR9 aircraft on Ark Royal and Illustrious in February 2005. The radar system, with a new TACAN (Tactical Air Navigation) system, entered service on the vessels in April 2008.

SENSORS

The BAE Systems Type 909 G/H-band fire control radar, which provided target tracking and illumination for the Sea Dart missile, has been removed from the three carriers. BAE Systems Type 996 surface search radar antennae is mounted very high on the tower between the two funnels. HMS Ark Royal has Type 992.

Both radars operate at E and F bands. BAE Systems Type 1022 air search radar operates at D band. HMS Invincible and Ark Royal are equipped with Kelvin Hughes Type 1006 navigation radar and HMS Illustrious has Type 1007, both operating at I band.
Qinetiq, with Babcock Design & Technology, has been awarded a contract to provide an advanced technology mast communications and radar mast for HMS Ark Royal. The sensors and antennas are housed within the structure, protected from the environment.

The sonar system is the hull-mounted Type 2016 active / passive search and attack sonar by Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar).

Aircraft carrier doesnt fit the PN doctrine who's primary purpose to protect the sea lanes of Pakistan. Besides maintaining a carrier will almost completely drain out PN resources which could otherwise be used for upgrading our frigates and subs. Moreover in an event of war, it will be very hard for the PN to protect its carrier from an assault due to the lack of strategic depth.

 

[zeeshuisb]

Yeah i agree with IceCold that pakistan does not need an aircraft carrier but it does need a couple of Force Projection Ships