‘Asia will be divided if India joins US patrols’ : Chinese Media

[C130]

we will see...

you know how easy it would be to mine up the passages from the India ocean to the South China Sea.

China wants to play games we can play games. they can have their little islands, but once war starts that passage for Global shipping will be stopped it means they are F-ed. good luck getting your shipping and warships through that gauntlet.

they will deny us some access to the SCS and we'll deny them total access to the Indian Ocean in return

 

[Desertfalcon]

China can and will do what it is in national interest. India at present is not interested in your game plan.

Fine, because what is in China's national interest is in having India, and the other states with a stake in the SCS, to bend over and take it. They are making that clear to you if you will listen.

 

[Echo_419]

Your loss. The US will not allow China to control the SCS by any means. Right now, we are taking the diplomatic route as much as possible. But even if China cannot gain complete control of the SCS, China can still harass the smaller countries into submission, leaving a path all the way to the Indian Ocean. Either India help US today, or pay a higher price tomorrow.

I somewhat agree.Beijing after winning SCS will concentrate all its power on its dispute with New Delhi.It is in our national interest to ensure a balance of influence in SCS

 

[PurpleButcher]

you know how easy it would be to mine up the passages from the India ocean to the South China Sea.

China wants to play games we can play games. they can have their little islands, but once war starts that passage for Global shipping will be stopped it means they are F-ed. good luck getting your shipping and warships through that gauntlet.

they will deny us some access to the SCS and we'll deny them total access to the Indian Ocean in return

For this very reason CPEC is important to china, economically not that much but strategically very important.

 

[C130]

For this very reason CPEC is important to china, economically not that much but strategically very important.

moving goods all the way across China and through Pakistan will be more expensive and time consuming than using it's own ports on the east coast.

CPEC is wonderful idea , but China couldn't rely solely on that to move it's goods and receive goods if a blockade was to be enforced

while the U.S can receive goods from the Pacific and Atlantic, cutting China off from Indian ocean would be catastrophic to it's economy and war machine

 

[randomradio]

Fine, because what is in China's national interest is in having India, and the other states with a stake in the SCS, to bend over and take it. They are making that clear to you if you will listen.

There is an almost constant IN presence in the SCS. Also, India is working on a joint mechanism with countries like Vietnam, Malaysia and Singapore for joint patrol, mainly recce. A lot of cooperation is geared towards Vietnam. Various agreements have been signed, both defence cooperation and strategic partnership.

The issue with cooperation with the US is there is a lack of trust between the two countries in a lot of spheres, especially defence exchanges. It started from the 60s when CIA lied to the Indian govt about Chinese air power buildup in 62, followed by backing the Pakistanis in the 65, 71 and 84 wars.

The situation has been made worse by the US throwing India under the bus in order to strike a deal with Afghanistan and terrorists in Pakistan. The two countries don't see eye to eye on the China front because US wants to cooperate with India in the east, but are working on policies that are extremely detrimental to India in the west, like forcing India out on Pakistan's interest in the Afghanistan talks. The US has worked out a deal with Pakistan in which US territories will no longer come under terrorist attacks, but those same terrorists can attack anybody else, including India, and the US has agreed to do nothing about it. If this trust deficit is to be resolved, the US has to go the extra mile.

Otoh, India doesn't have the same problems the US has. India doesn't even have a proper govt policy towards growth like China does and is still managing near 8% growth, in the midst of a global slowdown. The same reforms China managed through the 80s, India is doing today. And India's relations with China is very strong today. So India's not under the same type of pressure the US is in. There is a vast difference between an economy like the US, which has practically peaked when it comes to robust growth, and economies like India or China where a $20T economy still makes the two countries middle income countries. You can unite North America and Europe and still not challenge India's or China's individual potential. When it comes to countering China, India can benefit more from countries that are around China more than the US itself. Especially over the next 10-15 years when each of these countries would have grown enough to have built pretty powerful navies and air forces of their own, rivaling Japan and Korea, if not more, particularly Indonesia, Vietnam and Malaysia. Basically, US's fangs are going to become less and less intimidating compared to today, while ASEAN's fangs are going to start growing.

The situation is very different from what you have been picturing.

 

[Desertfalcon]

The situation is very different from what you have been picturing.

Oh, I don't think so. The United States has very close strategic ties with many of the countries of in the SCS region, (including many of the same ones that India does.), and are building new strategic alliances with countries like Vietnam, Singapore, etc. I think you misunderstood my views toward such a partnership with India. I think American efforts at building such a partnership are totally misguided so in that, you and I are much more in agreement that you think. India does not want it and America would be fools for pursing it. I posted that just recently...

IRIN to hold joint military drills with Indian Navy | Page 3

As I said there, it's better to be honest with each other about it than pretend that any such partnership could ever be a "good fit" for India or America.

 

[PurpleButcher]

moving goods all the way across China and through Pakistan will be more expensive and time consuming than using it's own ports on the east coast.

CPEC is wonderful idea , but China couldn't rely solely on that to move it's goods and receive goods if a blockade was to be enforced

while the U.S can receive goods from the Pacific and Atlantic, cutting China off from Indian ocean would be catastrophic to it's economy and war machine

Exactly.... it will be expensive but an alternative which can be used in case of a naval blockade to meet emergency requirements while global economic shock forces US to back down.

 

[Endeavour]

Your loss. The US will not allow China to control the SCS by any means. Right now, we are taking the diplomatic route as much as possible. But even if China cannot gain complete control of the SCS, China can still harass the smaller countries into submission, leaving a path all the way to the Indian Ocean. Either India help US today, or pay a higher price tomorrow.

Its laughable to say US needs indias help.

US is capable on itself to teach a china lesson in SCS`. I dont understand why US wants india in this game though.

 

[Piper]

Oh, I don't think so. The United States has very close strategic ties with many of the countries of in the SCS region, (including many of the same ones that India does.), and are building new strategic alliances with countries like Vietnam, Singapore, etc. I think you misunderstood my views toward such a partnership with India. I think American efforts at building such a partnership are totally misguided so in that, you and I are much more in agreement that you think. India does not want it and America would be fools for pursing it. I posted that just recently...

IRIN to hold joint military drills with Indian Navy | Page 3

As I said there, it's better to be honest with each other about it than pretend that any such partnership could ever be a "good fit" for India or America.

I respectfully disagree, India has great latent potential and similar values to that of American System.

It is but obvious that US- American relationship is a multidimensional and cannot be held hostage to single issue. Just like we have allies like Pakistan, India has freedom to build relationship with countries who are not at the best of terms with us. That said there are lot of areas where we see future alignments and co-operation with India.

Only thing which I wish is that India were a bit more mature in their foreign policy engagements. Their single mindedness with Pakistan greatly limits the role they can play in Global Arena

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Your loss. The US will not allow China to control the SCS by any means. Right now, we are taking the diplomatic route as much as possible. But even if China cannot gain complete control of the SCS, China can still harass the smaller countries into submission, leaving a path all the way to the Indian Ocean. Either India help US today, or pay a higher price tomorrow.

Both India and USA have denied joint patrols

India and U.S. deny plans for joint patrols - The Hindu

 

[Desertfalcon]

I respectfully disagree, India has great latent potential and similar values to that of American System.

We just aren't going to see eye to eye on that one. India does not want a close relationship with America. They don't really need one and despite the fact that they may have democratic values, (And I would remind you that so does Pakistan.), Indian strategic interest in so many areas is in real conflict with American interest. The topic of this thread is a perfect example of that. I think it's better in the long run for India and the United States to be honest about that fact.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Oh come on as if US needs Indian help in containing China in SCS, besides China can and will do what it is in national interest. India at present is not interested in your game plan. The only question is why should we patrol in SCS so far away from home? We have much to lose than what we gain.

Its laughable to say US needs indias help.

US is capable on itself to teach a china lesson in SCS`. I dont understand why US wants india in this game though.

You are missing the point @gambit is making.

If India stays in the Indian Ocean we fight a defensive war with Chinese. Defensive wars are very risky for the defender, given its on their homeland the conflict takes place and aggressor has nothing to lose.

The only way to prevent China from making way to IO is to take the fight to SCS and ensure Chinese fight a defensive war in SCS

Our lack of intention to challenge Chinese will be seen as a lack of capability and make Chinese even more hegemonic.

For example, when Chinese assisted Pakistan's nuclear capability, we Indians did nothing similar in Chinese neighbourhood,

Basking on this lack of response from India and perceived success Chinese went on to nuclear submarine docking in Sri Lanka. While things have gone in India's favor with regime change in Sri Lanka.

Chinese have already made their move, ball is in India's court.

 

[911]

Either India help US today, or pay a higher price tomorrow.

 

[Abingdonboy]

SOURCE: Asian age

Any move by India to join the US Navy to jointly patrol the disputed South China Sea will be against its national interest, would divide Asian countries and further escalate regional tensions, a state-run Chinese daily said on Friday.

The Chinese media’s reaction came after it was reported in January that the US and India had talked about launching joint naval patrols in the South China Sea for safeguarding freedom of navigation. But India clarified there would be no such patrols and the US also subsequently denied having any such plan.

“Military collaboration between Washington and New Delhi has been heating up in recent years. Nonetheless, the only purpose of the latter to conduct bilateral naval patrols with the former without its interests being hurt is to meet the demand of the largest world power,” an article in the state-run Global Times said on Friday.

“In this way, the US can include India as a ‘vassal state’ like Japan and Australia, which will damage India’s dignity and deter its pursuit to become a great power,” it said.

Playing up India’s concerns over the US’s move to sell F-16 fighters to Pakistan, the article said “even though New Delhi obeys Washington, it’s not likely that it will see the desired return”.

“The White House’s sale of fighter planes to Pakistan provides the latest example,” it said.

“India once mulled over deepening its military cooperation with the US in hope that the latter would cancel the endorsement for its perennial regional rival. But the US has its strategic needs by the sale of weapons and has never changed minds despite India’s long-running objection,” it said.

Playing down reports that India may join joint patrols with the US in the South China Sea where Beijing is locked in a major confrontation, the article said any such move by India would divide Asian countries.

If New Delhi chooses to follow in US’ footsteps, it means the country is taking part in US’ “pivot to Asia” strategy and adopting a major strategic shift, the report said. “This move will inevitably divide Asian nations into two camps.”

1) India will never conduct joint patrols outside of a UN mandate
2) China can't keep pushing India/the region and expect no reaction

Chinese ships,submarines continue to prowl around Andamans