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Arunachal in China? That is not the reality, says PM Manmohan Singh

hopefully with time, china can get better at managing its public image and developing its soft power. :tup:

You see, we Chinese do not care what outsiders think. If we have done well enough, why should I care what others think?

Do I prefer the current China or the past China so bad but with good image?

Of course the current one. The current China is much better than the image the west wants you to see.

To solve the mystery, you can simply pay a visit and you will be so astonished that how many lies you were told before.
 
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An interesting observation.

Have you taken into consideration that there are two tracts under dispute, and that until recently, China was willing to do a kind of swap - concessions on Arunachal Pradesh, in return for complete agreement with China's line on Aksai Chin?

In case this sounds unfair or asymmetric, have you taken into consideration that in Arunachal Pradesh, India had declared her version of the border to be the McMahon Line, which declared itself to be the watershed between Tibet and Assam? In many places, the McMahon Line, which was merely a line drawn on a map while the three sets of representatives were sitting in Simla, was drawn in ignorance of ground conditions NORTH of the watershed, that is, in Tibetan territory. When our troops went to take up their positions right up to the McMahon Line, they found that in certain cases, they were forced to take position on the downward slope towards Tibet.

Would you seriously object to the border in Arunachal Pradesh being along a jointly-surveyed watershed line, even if it means giving up a couple of acres of barren hilltop?

On the other hand, you may also be aware that the detailed boundary line in Aksai Chin was never part of the peace treaty, was never surveyed, and was never put onto a map by mutual consent? There were no less than three variations of the border declared (unilaterally every time) by the British, in their role as suzerain power over Jammu & Kashmir, a different role from their role as sovereigns, the owners in possession, in Arunachal Pradesh.

One extreme version, drawn by a British official who wanted to curry favour with the Jammu court, actually placed the border along the Kuen Lun mountain range; this was the extreme case, and a quick look at the map will convince you that it was pretty extreme. Actually, laughable.

The standard British version, the one adopted by India on Nehru's instructions to avoid the embarrassment of a border dispute over a border marked 'undemarcated', was a fanciful line which had no logic behind it. In fact, the Indian Army's best line of defence, the Karakorum Range, runs in a logical fashion, and more or less straight north-west to south-east, well behind the British line.

These areas were not surveyed and were not demarcated largely because they were uninhabited. Aksai Chin is a cold desert; nobody lives there, at any moment there are only nomadic herders in transit to be found there. Younghusband, for instance, has detailed conditions for the area from his personal observations during his voyage through the area (this is subject to verification, as I am stating this from memory). Nobody from either side doubted that the Karakorum Pass and the lake Pangong Tso were on the border, and spread on both sides equally. These were the fixed points; all the rest was open desert. We have no earthly use for it, the Ladakhis don't go there, there is nothing to be done there.

After this, do you understand why your remarks do not seem to serve our own best interests?

It's strange, Mother nature has apparent drawn a natural borders for us, and we still can't work anything out.
 
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Are you saying that China actually wants the land?

If you ask me the Chinese are just trying to prolong it, because the longer the dispute exists the more leverage China has over India. But for some reason Indian leaders are also trying to prolong the settlement, and that is something I do not completely understand.

I can list sources saying that India will not enter negotiations, do you have anything similar for China?
 
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Joe, why do you think GOI is hesitating from negotiations. From what you have expressed here, looks like giving up some hard-to-defend land, fortifying the easy to defend areas and resolving the border issue once and for all is a win-win

Could it be that at this point if GOI gives up land, it would look like bowing to Chinese pressure. Maybe the govt. wants to achieve a relative parity with PRC and then negotiate as equals? Although that may take years/decades
 
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Under Yuan and Qing Dynasty. When Kublai Khan decided that he would inherit the de facto ruler of mainland China and want him to be recognized as the de facto heaven-granted next line ruler of China.

Read some history before opening mouth.

At your attitude, I hope you are in the front line if there will be any conflict. You can teach our PLA some lessons.

Yes, Indo-Greek kingdoms also called themselves the ruler of India even converted to Shivism and Buddhism, but you know damn well they are foreigners.

Look at this guy even put an elephant on his coin symbolizing the conquest of northern India for a time, they are foreigners. You know damn well the Hans thought the northern tribals are Barbadian and not equal.

1579432397708054.jpg
 
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sardar saab like most indians should re-visit and re-analyze meaning of the word ''integral''


by the way, i'd be interested to know what are the current ''realities''
 
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Yes, Indo-Greek kingdoms also called themselves the ruler of India even converted to Shivism and Buddhism, but you know damn well they are foreigners.

Look at this guy even put an elephant on his coin symbolizing the conquest of northern India for a time, they are foreigners. You know damn well the Hans thought the northern tribals are Barbadian and not equal.

1579432397708054.jpg

Currently Mongolian (Yuan) Minority are in Mongolian autonomous region while Machurian (Qing) minority are most in Northeastern China and Beijing. They are part of Chinese and they are not foreigners.

For your Indo-Greek, I have no idea where they are now.
 
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Currently Mongolian (Yuan) Minority are in Mongolian autonomous region while Machurian (Qing) minority are most in Northeastern China and Beijing. They are part of Chinese and they are not foreigners.

For your Indo-Greek, I have no idea where they are now.

Yes, in todays time Mongols and Machurian have integrated into Chinese society. Just like today there are Timurids, Arabs, Greeks, etc hybrids that walk around India and call themselves "Indians".


ephone & liquid, get a room ladies

Nope, dont claim a whole state of India..
 
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Yes, in todays time Mongols and Machurian have integrated into Chinese society. Just like today there are Timurids, Arabs, Greeks, etc hybrids that walk around India and call themselves "Indians".


First, they are foreigners. Wow, now they are Indians. Exactly what are they?
 
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Yes, in todays time Mongols and Machurian have integrated into Chinese society. Just like today there are Timurids, Arabs, Greeks, etc hybrids that walk around India and call themselves "Indians".


First, they are foreigners. Wow, now they are Indians. Exactly what are they?

Just like how Mongols and Machus invaded China and know call themselves "Chinese". There are people that invaded India, even converting to Hindu sects and integrated themselves to the population. And walk around India calling themselves "Indians".
 
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Just like how Mongols and Machus invaded China and know call themselves "Chinese". There are people that invaded India, even converting to Hindu sects and integrated themselves to the population. And walk around India calling themselves "Indians".

So back to your post, what is your point by raising those indo-greek paragraph???

What is your problem with Yuan and Qing's control over Tibet???

Both Mongolian and Manchurian are all part of Chinese already and it seems that you also understand your indo-greek to India analogy.
 
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