Arunachal in China? That is not the reality, says PM Manmohan Singh

[ephone]

Some correction's my friend,on record Tibet had accepted that Arunachal belong to India and India had full controll over it,so ur point fall flat over the matter,why China should have it claim over Arunachal.




Here u have an another misconception that India is all about hinduism,I am not bringing points on this topic because it will be way off topic and will attract some unwanted attraction from religious trolls,anyway even just like what u assume,arunachal have its connection with hinduism,such as the 14th century Malinithan temple at the foot of the Siang hills(which precedes ur Quing dynasty by a good time).



Do u really believe leaving the territory by China was a honest gesture,seems more accountability was in ur words before that,actualy to avoid further conflict.

Avoiding further conflict is not a nice gesture even after we completely crashed your army... even after Nehru wanted to evacuate Delhi???

Do you think then Chairman Mao is so scared of India retaliation so that we withdrew?

If that was the case, there should not be any Korean war in the 50s or Border Conflict with USSR over Zhenbao (treasure) Island in the Northeast in the late 60s? There won't be hundreds of thousands of Chinese Army into Vietnam to help Northern Vietnam to fight the US during the 60s either.

The most important reason is that China does not want to have a complete breakdown of relationship with India since both are important Third World Country and Non-Alliance movement. Mao did not want to be taken advantage by his supposed imperialist countries like US and the west.

 

[gubbi]

It doesn't. Since it assume that India clung on to the NAM up until recently.

It still is. NAM does play a role in India's foreign policy, end of cold-war not withstanding.
Link:

The end of the Cold War left the Nonaligned Movement without its original raison d'être, and its membership became deeply divided over international disputes, strategy, and organization. During the 1992 Jakarta summit, India took a middle position between countries favoring confrontation with developed nations on international economic issues, such as Malaysia, and those that favored a more cooperative approach, such as Indonesia. Although New Delhi played a minor role compared with Kuala Lumpur and Jakarta on most issues facing the summit, India formulated the Nonaligned Movement position opposing developed countries' linkage of foreign aid to human rights criteria.

 

[ephone]

Arunachal will never be a part of China, Its India's..

YouTube - Bulletin # 1 - Dalai Lama receives warm welcome in Tawang Nov. 09 '09

YouTube - Dalai Lama can go anywhere in India: Arunachal CM

They dont want to be a part of China, back off.

Is it hard to find someone to denounce China? Aren't many who want to jump on the bandwagon since money will follow after that?

Even Dalai Lama will do that, let alone this guy. Given more money, Dalai Lama even will say Tibet is always and historically part of India since the 1st century.

 

[Dharmocol]

Avoiding further conflict is not a nice gesture even after we completely crashed your army... even after Nehru wanted to evacuate Delhi???

Do you think then Chairman Mao is so scared of India retaliation so that we withdrew?

Now this is off topic,I thought I can have some serious debate with u,but u r turning like the other Chinese guys,nehru would have evacuated Delhi or Mumbai is what u must have waited for and observed.

Or Mao was scared or not is not something that concern me.

If that was the case, there should not be any Korean war in the 50s or Border Conflict with USSR over Zhenbao (treasure) Island in the Northeast in the late 60s? There won't be hundreds of thousands of Chinese Army into Vietnam to help Northern Vietnam to fight the US during the 60s either.

The most important reason is that China does not want to have a complete breakdown of relationship with India since both are important Third World Country and Non-Alliance movement. Mao did not want to be taken advantage by his supposed imperialist countries like US and the west.

Again some offtopic points,the third Indo China war or the Sino Vietnam war had shown the world some defects of PLA's long term conflict policies,most in ur country beleive that was a victory of China but the archives of history show something else,anyway this points r not related with what we r talking and i dont think can be compared with 1962 war.

Any way good night.

 

[ephone]

I did not brought that point earlier because I do not considered it worthy,I just mentioned it as an example not for the sake of deliberation,that India does not means Hinduism or a land can not be claimed according to religious values.

Read my post, do I mention anywhere saying India is all about Hinduism?

I raise my point simply because you say territory connection is associated with culture. Isn't there is a large paragraph of yours (or your Indian Member) saying South Tibet (AP) has this or that kind of people, most of them are not culturally Tibetan except one type of people, most are associated with Bhutan and etc???

My point on the contrary is about historical control, let alone China claim and control over Tibet is continuous historically and thus over South Tibet (AP) through Tibet.

 

[ephone]

Now this is off topic,I thought I can have some serious debate with u,but u r turning like the other Chinese guys,nehru would have evacuated Delhi or Mumbai is what u must have waited for and observed.

Or Mao was scared or not is not something that concern me.



Again some offtopic points,the third Indo China war or the Sino Vietnam war had shown the world some defects of PLA's long term conflict policies,most in ur country beleive that was a victory of China but the archives of history show something else,anyway this points r not related with what we r talking and i dont think can be compared with 1962 war.

Any way good night.

First, you do not even read my posts carefully. I am talking about the war that China has helped Northern Vietnam to fight US during the 60s.

The point is that China's withdrew has nothing to do with that we might be afraid of India retaliation or India army power.

The China-Vietnam conflict is during the late 70s and early 80s. Honestly, you can ask any Vietnam people and see whether Vietnam has won the war honestly? BTW, it has nothing to do with the discussion and I did not even raised this. It is all due to your misunderstanding of my post.

 

[ephone]

The shimla accord itself,The tibetian govt went ahead with it and declared arunachal as a part of british India,putting ur assumption's to rest that Tibet considered Arunachal as its part,so China have reason's to claim it.

You see. You come back to those notorious McMahon Line again, which was never recognized by China Central Government.

Dalai Lama secretly tried to break deals with Britain by signing it while seeking independence. He never got it while whatever he signed never got recognized.

Using your past colony master's (the british) secret deals with Dalai Lama as your evidence?

If India do recognize everything British has signed, why do you abolish so many treaties they have signed by saying they are unequal treaties??? Isn't that conflicting???

Even during the weakest time (1914 is our Beiyang Republic time), the central government would not even recognize it, you think China will recognize it now?

 

[ephone]

The shimla accord itself,The tibetian govt went ahead with it and declared arunachal as a part of british India,putting ur assumption's to rest that Tibet considered Arunachal as its part,so China have reason's to claim it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simla_Accord_(1914)

China refused to accept the Accord and their plenipotentiary, Ivan Chen, withdrew on 3 July 1914. After his withdrawal the British and Tibetan plenipotentiaries attached a note denying China any privileges under the Accord and sealed it as a bilateral agreement on the same day.


So Dalai Lama and British wanted to get it done and their way of doing thing is like: What you can do about it???

So we show the British and Dalai Lama what we can do about it by taking back Tibet, taking Back Hong Kong.

If that supposed accord is recognized, how could all countries in the world recognize Tibet is integral part of China? Does it automatically mean such accord is useless???[/B]

In the late 1950s, the McMahon Line became a source tension between China and India.[22] China contends that Tibet was never an independent state and so it could not sign a treaty on behalf of China to delineate an international frontier,[23] and considers the treaty an unequal treaty unilaterally imposed by the United Kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simla_Accord_(1914)

Even your past master has discarded it already.

2008 British policy change

Until 2008 the British Government's position remained the same that China held suzerainty over Tibet but not full sovereignty. It was the only state still to hold this view.[26] David Miliband, the British Foreign Secretary, described the old position as an anachronism originating in the geopolitics of the early 20th century.[27] Britain revised this view on 29 October 2008, when it recognised Chinese sovereignty over Tibet by issuing a statement on its website.[nb 5]The Economist stated that although the British Foreign Office's website does not use the word sovereignty, officials at the Foreign Office said "it means that, as far as Britain is concerned, 'Tibet is part of China. Full stop.'"[26]

The British Government sees their new stances as an updating of their position, while some others have viewed it as a major shift in the British position.[nb 6] Tibetologist Robert Barnett thinks that the decision has wider implications. India’s claim to a part of its northeast territories, for example, is largely based on the same agreements — notes exchanged during the Simla convention of 1914, which set the boundary between India and Tibet — that the British appear to have just discarded.

 

[CardSharp]

The British Government sees their new stances as an updating of their position, while some others have viewed it as a major shift in the British position.[nb 6] Tibetologist Robert Barnett thinks that the decision has wider implications. India’s claim to a part of its northeast territories, for example, is largely based on the same agreements — notes exchanged during the Simla convention of 1914, which set the boundary between India and Tibet — that the British appear to have just discarded.[/B]

This is interesting. Since the British were the main drafters of the Simla decree.

 

[ephone]

This is interesting. Since the British were the main drafters of the Simla decree.

Dalai Lama then wanted to get independence since Qing Dynasty was overturned which China would not allow it since Beiyang Republic have already took over China as the de facto Central Government.

So he broke the deal with British secretly and wanted to force China' central government to agree it. The representative Ivan Chen refused to do so.

The reason Britain wanted to rush to sign it so quickly was to avoid Russian into that region.

If that accord were recognized, Tibet would have been a separate country since that accord also tried to mark the border between Tibet and the rest of China.

India climbed onto that accord as if it is legit even though it has nothing to do with it. It was signed by British and Tibet, which China openly refused to recognize.

Even this issue is sent to court, China has far more support on her side. Well, I do not think it will be sent to the court anyway.

Probably another border conflict at most.

 

[below_freezing]

I feel bad for all the residents of occupied South Tibet, as they have to deal with crushing poverty, a country whose average HDI is lower than our poorest provinces, starvation, police brutality, disease, can't even say I hate Sonia Gandhi, etc.

Hopefully, we wil lliberate them from the crushing grip of the Indian Army.

 

[CardSharp]

Dalai Lama then wanted to get independence since Qing Dynasty was overturned which China would not allow it since Beiyang Republic have already took over China as the de facto Central Government.

So he broke the deal with British secretly and wanted to force China' central government to agree it. The representative Ivan Chen refused to do so.

The reason Britain wanted to rush to sign it so quickly was to avoid Russian into that region.

If that accord were recognized, Tibet would have been a separate country since that accord also tried to mark the border between Tibet and the rest of China.

India climbed onto that accord as if it is legit even though it has nothing to do with it. It was signed by British and Tibet, which China openly refused to recognize.

Even this issue is sent to court, China has far more support on her side. Well, I do not think it will be sent to the court anyway.

Probably another border conflict at most.

Here's an interesting scenario.

The Dalai Lama is keeping quiet for now about Tibet's own claims on Arunchal P. because he needs Indian support but if there is to be a settlement between China and the Tibetan exiles I wonder if these exiles would then press their claim against India.

 

[Abhishek_]

Here's an interesting scenario.

The Dalai Lama is keeping quiet for now about Tibet's own claims on Arunchal P. because he needs Indian support but if there is to be a settlement between China and the Tibetan exiles I wonder if these exiles would then press their claim against India.

this might be the reason why GOI is allowing DL to stay in India, mutual (albeit temporary) benefit

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I feel bad for all the residents of occupied South Tibet, as they have to deal with crushing poverty, a country whose average HDI is lower than our poorest provinces, starvation, police brutality, disease, can't even say I hate Sonia Gandhi, etc.

Hopefully, we wil lliberate them from the crushing grip of the Indian Army.

Ummm? Your fairytale? Arunachal Pradesh is and always will be a part of India. I cant believe you guys claim a whole state of India, back off.

The people there do not want to be a part of China. Crushing poverty these are things India will improve on with time, just like China did!! Just because China was at one time was in crippling poverty should they give Manchuria back to Japan? Back off.

 

[CardSharp]

this might be the reason why GOI is allowing DL to stay in India, mutual (albeit temporary) benefit

Just a thought. I heard it mentioned by a Tibetan scholar at a recorded conference for the Sino-India border issue.