DESERT FIGHTER
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Yes im the same guy.... and arent u the same who showed a 1960s phased out british 108 MMor small howitzer cum mortar on a MBP chasis as a SPG?
Artillery gun purchase stalled again
- Thread starter CONNAN
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Yes im the same guy.... and arent u the same who showed a 1960s phased out british 108 MMor small howitzer cum mortar on a MBP chasis as a SPG?
Mogambo
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Punj Lloyd is STKs Indian partner for the 155 mm gun, explains Patrick Choy, STKs international marketing chief. STK will rely on them for logistics and engineering support during the trials; and if STK is awarded the contract, we will manufacture a substantial part of the gun at Punj Lloyds facilities near Gwalior.
Singapore gun arrives today; stage set for artillery trials
The Hindu Business Line : Mahindra-BAE unveils upgraded artillery gun; to bid for defence contracts
Mahindra Executive: BAE JV Plans To Build New Plant For Artillery Guns - Mahindra Ltd Gossip
Army is against the fms route as we don't get any technology transfer through that.
gogbot
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That is all good, But IA is the One that has to make use of the opportunity.
They traditionally take very rigid positions on weapons acquisitions.
Unwilling to adapt with the changing field.
In the ideal situation yes, Our artillery situation is far from Ideal
jha
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Broadsword: BAE-Mahindras apprehend retendering for 155 mm towed guns: "Rs 8000 cr artillery gun tender might fail again"
A crew of seven Punj Lloyd gunners fire the Singapore Technologies IFH-2000 gun. STK has requested for range time in Pokhran to calibrate their gun with the Indian ammunition that will be used in trials.
STK crews load their gun into an aircraft to be flown out for trials. STK has offered India an upgraded FH-2000, the first production 52 calibre, 155 mm gun in military service anywhere.
After 8 years of tenders and trials, the armys search for an artillery gun --- its most critical weakness --- remains mired in uncertainty. The Central Bureau of Investigation continues to probe Singapore Technologies Kinetic (STK), one of the two companies vying to sell India a modern 155 millimeter towed howitzer, even though no charges have been brought against STK after 18 months of investigation. And with the CBI recommending the formal blacklisting of STK, its rival --- UK-headquartered BAE Systems, in partnership with the Mahindras --- fears that the tender might be scrapped and the process begun anew.
Brigadier Khutab Hai, CEO of the Mahindra Groups Defence Land Systems India --- which will manufacture some 55% of BAE Systems FH-77B-05 howitzer if it is chosen for the Indian Army --- told Business Standard, If STK is blacklisted, I apprehend that the MoD might entirely scrap the tender for towed howitzers, on the grounds that there is now just a single vendor. But, remember, three companies had bid in this tender: Rheinmetall; STK and BAE Systems. Even if the other two are eliminated for various reasons, this was never a single vendor situation.
German gun maker, Rheinmetall, had been eliminated after the MoD had discovered, during technical evaluation of the bids, that it was partnering banned South African company, Denel. STK ran into problems with the May 09 arrest of Sudipta Ghosh, former chairman of Indias Ordnance Factories Board (OFB), for allegedly demanding and accepting illegal gratification from foreign companies, including STK. And BAE Systems itself is in a delicate position: its FH-77B-05 howitzer is built by Bofors, which is now a part of BAE Systems after a series of mergers and takeovers.
At stake in this tender, which was issued in 2008, is an order worth US $1.8 billion (Rs 8000 crores) for the outright supply of 400 towed guns; and the licensed production in India of another 1180 guns. If the MoD imposes even the minimum offset requirement of 30%, that would translate into US $540 million (Rs 2400 crores) worth of manufacture within India.
MoD sources tell Business Standard that, if a fresh tender were to be issued today, at least two other guns --- one Russian and the other Slovak --- would enter the fray.
For now, both guns in the fray --- STKs Indian Field Howitzer-2000, or IFH-2000; and the BAE Systems FH-77-05 --- are in the Pokhran Field Firing Ranges, in Rajasthan, for trials. Despite its ban on STK, the MoD has allowed the IFH-2000 to participate in trials, with the award of any contract being conditional on the CBI clearing STKs name.
The hot-weather trials, which were to begin in May, have been progressively delayed since STK has requested for time to calibrate its gun with the Indian ammunition that will be used in the trials. In February, the trials had been postponed to May after the STK IFH-2000 had met with an accident while being loaded on an aircraft for transportation to India.
Despite not having filed a charge sheet against STK, the CBI insists it has strong evidence. On 30th June 10, while charge sheeting Ghosh, the CBI announced that a Letter Rogatory (an official questionnaire for obtaining evidence in trans-national investigations) has been issued by the Special Judge, CBI, Kolkata, to the Central Authority in the Republic of Singapore. The said LR is pending execution."
The CEO of STK, Brigadier General Patrick Choy, tells Business Standard, STK has, from the beginning, cooperated fully with the investigation. When requested by the CBI last year, I came to Delhi and answered their questions. Last year, we invited the CBI to Singapore for an investigation, and to audit our books if they liked. That offer still holds.
The Indian Armys artillery modernisation plan has remained stalled, for various reasons, for over two decades. The armys 180-odd artillery gun regiments --- each having 18 guns --- have not received any new weaponry since the Bofors gun was bought in the late 1980s.
The selection of a suitable 155 mm, 52-calibre towed howitzer to fill this gap began in summer 2002, when the MoD began evaluating three guns from BAE Systems; Israeli firm, Soltam; and South African company, Denel. Five rounds of trials, conducted in 2002; 2003; 2004; and 2006; reached no conclusion: while Denel was blacklisted for corruption in Sep 05; the other two guns did not meet the armys standards. Following this failure, the current tender was issued in 2008.
A crew of seven Punj Lloyd gunners fire the Singapore Technologies IFH-2000 gun. STK has requested for range time in Pokhran to calibrate their gun with the Indian ammunition that will be used in trials.
STK crews load their gun into an aircraft to be flown out for trials. STK has offered India an upgraded FH-2000, the first production 52 calibre, 155 mm gun in military service anywhere.
After 8 years of tenders and trials, the armys search for an artillery gun --- its most critical weakness --- remains mired in uncertainty. The Central Bureau of Investigation continues to probe Singapore Technologies Kinetic (STK), one of the two companies vying to sell India a modern 155 millimeter towed howitzer, even though no charges have been brought against STK after 18 months of investigation. And with the CBI recommending the formal blacklisting of STK, its rival --- UK-headquartered BAE Systems, in partnership with the Mahindras --- fears that the tender might be scrapped and the process begun anew.
Brigadier Khutab Hai, CEO of the Mahindra Groups Defence Land Systems India --- which will manufacture some 55% of BAE Systems FH-77B-05 howitzer if it is chosen for the Indian Army --- told Business Standard, If STK is blacklisted, I apprehend that the MoD might entirely scrap the tender for towed howitzers, on the grounds that there is now just a single vendor. But, remember, three companies had bid in this tender: Rheinmetall; STK and BAE Systems. Even if the other two are eliminated for various reasons, this was never a single vendor situation.
German gun maker, Rheinmetall, had been eliminated after the MoD had discovered, during technical evaluation of the bids, that it was partnering banned South African company, Denel. STK ran into problems with the May 09 arrest of Sudipta Ghosh, former chairman of Indias Ordnance Factories Board (OFB), for allegedly demanding and accepting illegal gratification from foreign companies, including STK. And BAE Systems itself is in a delicate position: its FH-77B-05 howitzer is built by Bofors, which is now a part of BAE Systems after a series of mergers and takeovers.
At stake in this tender, which was issued in 2008, is an order worth US $1.8 billion (Rs 8000 crores) for the outright supply of 400 towed guns; and the licensed production in India of another 1180 guns. If the MoD imposes even the minimum offset requirement of 30%, that would translate into US $540 million (Rs 2400 crores) worth of manufacture within India.
MoD sources tell Business Standard that, if a fresh tender were to be issued today, at least two other guns --- one Russian and the other Slovak --- would enter the fray.
For now, both guns in the fray --- STKs Indian Field Howitzer-2000, or IFH-2000; and the BAE Systems FH-77-05 --- are in the Pokhran Field Firing Ranges, in Rajasthan, for trials. Despite its ban on STK, the MoD has allowed the IFH-2000 to participate in trials, with the award of any contract being conditional on the CBI clearing STKs name.
The hot-weather trials, which were to begin in May, have been progressively delayed since STK has requested for time to calibrate its gun with the Indian ammunition that will be used in the trials. In February, the trials had been postponed to May after the STK IFH-2000 had met with an accident while being loaded on an aircraft for transportation to India.
Despite not having filed a charge sheet against STK, the CBI insists it has strong evidence. On 30th June 10, while charge sheeting Ghosh, the CBI announced that a Letter Rogatory (an official questionnaire for obtaining evidence in trans-national investigations) has been issued by the Special Judge, CBI, Kolkata, to the Central Authority in the Republic of Singapore. The said LR is pending execution."
The CEO of STK, Brigadier General Patrick Choy, tells Business Standard, STK has, from the beginning, cooperated fully with the investigation. When requested by the CBI last year, I came to Delhi and answered their questions. Last year, we invited the CBI to Singapore for an investigation, and to audit our books if they liked. That offer still holds.
The Indian Armys artillery modernisation plan has remained stalled, for various reasons, for over two decades. The armys 180-odd artillery gun regiments --- each having 18 guns --- have not received any new weaponry since the Bofors gun was bought in the late 1980s.
The selection of a suitable 155 mm, 52-calibre towed howitzer to fill this gap began in summer 2002, when the MoD began evaluating three guns from BAE Systems; Israeli firm, Soltam; and South African company, Denel. Five rounds of trials, conducted in 2002; 2003; 2004; and 2006; reached no conclusion: while Denel was blacklisted for corruption in Sep 05; the other two guns did not meet the armys standards. Following this failure, the current tender was issued in 2008.
Hulk
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Last I heard CBI reports to PM not IA.
Dash
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Its still reporting to PM.
Anyways, the kick backs are more in IA, corruption is more in IA than IN and IAF. While they are building their fort smoothly, IA is yet to put a strong foundation.
Tshering22
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Oh come on man! not again!
nForce
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The Indian Army needs something like this--->
Archer FH77 BW L52 Self-Propelled Howitzer, Sweden
Crew 3 or 4
Overall Length 14.1m
Width 3.0m
Height 3.3m
Height with Lemur 4.0m
System Weight 33,500kg
Engine Power 340hp
BAE Systems Bofors in Karlskoga, Sweden, has developed the FH77 BW L52 self-propelled howitzer, a 155mm howitzer on a 6×6 chassis. The howitzer has a range of 40km using current standard ammunition and 60km with the M982 Excalibur rounds. The howitzer can also fire the Bonus top attack rounds developed by Bofors and Giat (now Nexter).
Archer is the name of the complete system with the 77BW L52 self-propelled howitzer and ammunition resupply and support vehicles.
The self-propelled howitzer is fully autonomous and can be used in traditional warfare fire support as well as in modern international peace-keeping and peace enforcement missions.
In 2003 Försvarets Materielverk (FMV), the Swedish defence acquisition agency, awarded a development contract to Bofors (now BAE Systems Bofors) to build two demonstrator howitzers. The prototype FH77 BW L52 self-propelled howitzers entered firing trials in Sweden in 2005 and 2006.
In September 2006, the FMV placed a contract for detailed design work on Archer and, in January 2007, a contract for the next development phase. The Swedish Army has a requirement for 24 systems (two battalions). Following In September 2008, the Swedish government approved the final development and procurement of the Archer artillery system.
In November 2008, Sweden and Norway signed a co-operative agreement for the development of the Archer system and, in January 2009, awarded BAE Systems a contract to complete development of the artillery system. A final prototype is scheduled for completion by September 2009, which is expected to be followed by a contract for 48 systems 24 for Sweden and 24 for Norway. Archer is planned to enter service in 2011.
The Archer system is a development of the earlier155mm towed FH77 L39, of which more than 700 were produced and are in service with the Swedish, Nigerian and Indian armed forces.
Vehicle
The vehicle platform is a modification of the Volvo A30D 6×6 articulated all-terrain hauler vehicle. The vehicle cabin and engine compartment are fully armoured and the cab is fitted with bullet and fragmentation-proof windows. The cabin seats up to four personnel. The howitzer is operated by three or four crew.
The cabin is fitted with a door each side and a circular roof hatch.
Weapon systems
The main weapon is the 155mm 52-calibre gun. The gun uses the proven design of the cradle and recoil system from the current generation FH 77B towed field howitzer.
The weapon is equipped with a fire control system, laying system and inertial navigation and a muzzle velocity radar. Data from the radar is downloaded to the onboard computerised fire control system. However Archer can use other remote weapon stations on the market.
A remote weapon system, comprising a day and night sight with a 7.62mm general-purpose machine gun, is installed on the roof of the cab. BAE Systems Bofors has developed the Lemur family of gyro-stabilised, fragment-protected, electro-optical sights and remotely controlled (RC) weapon systems. The Lemur machine gun can be aimed and fired from inside the armour-protected cabin.
Ammunition
The vehicle carries 20 150mm projectiles in the fully automatic magazine and an additional 20 projectiles for reload. The howitzer can use NATO modular charges or Bofors Uniflex 2 modular charges.
The Uniflex 2IM modular charge system consists of two sizes of combustible charge cases; one full-size and one half-size case, both filled with the same type of insensitive guanylurea dinitramide (GuDN) propellant. The modular charge system allows several increments of charge to be available and increases the gun system's multiple rounds simultaneous impact (MRSI) capability and good range overlap between the increments.
With BAE Bofors / Nexter Bonus rounds the range is 35km. The range of the gun is extended to 60km with the precision-guided Raytheon / Bofors XM982 Excalibur round. The Excalibur shell is corrected in flight towards a pre-programmed trajectory by a GPS guidance system.
Deployment
The system is operated by three or four crew members who are protected in combat by being under armour. The armoured platform provides protection against 7.62mm rounds, armour penetration rounds, 6kg mines (level 2 STANAG 4569) and has NBC protection for the crew.
The system is designed for high strategic, operational and tactical mobility. The vehicle can reach road-speeds of up to 70km/h, is capable of traversing snow up to a depth of 100cm, is rail transportable and can be air-transportable in the new A400M aircraft. A large hydraulically operated stabiliser is installed in the rear of the chassis and is lowered with the vehicle in the selected firing position.
The gun elevation and traverse ranges are 0° to +70° and -75° to +75°. The initial deployment time and the redeployment times are each less than 30 seconds.
The system provides precision strike firepower and high sustained firepower for support and for deep firing operations with more than 25t of ammunition per gun and 24-hour operation.
The howitzer has a continuous fire rate of 75 rounds an hour, an intensive fire rate of 20 rounds (i.e. a full magazine) in 2.5 minutes, and a salvo fire rate of three rounds in 15 seconds. The MRSI capability, multiple round simultaneous impact, is up to six rounds. Direct-sighting can be used for target ranges up to 2,000m.
Archer FH77 BW L52 Self-Propelled Howitzer, Sweden
Crew 3 or 4
Overall Length 14.1m
Width 3.0m
Height 3.3m
Height with Lemur 4.0m
System Weight 33,500kg
Engine Power 340hp
BAE Systems Bofors in Karlskoga, Sweden, has developed the FH77 BW L52 self-propelled howitzer, a 155mm howitzer on a 6×6 chassis. The howitzer has a range of 40km using current standard ammunition and 60km with the M982 Excalibur rounds. The howitzer can also fire the Bonus top attack rounds developed by Bofors and Giat (now Nexter).
Archer is the name of the complete system with the 77BW L52 self-propelled howitzer and ammunition resupply and support vehicles.
The self-propelled howitzer is fully autonomous and can be used in traditional warfare fire support as well as in modern international peace-keeping and peace enforcement missions.
In 2003 Försvarets Materielverk (FMV), the Swedish defence acquisition agency, awarded a development contract to Bofors (now BAE Systems Bofors) to build two demonstrator howitzers. The prototype FH77 BW L52 self-propelled howitzers entered firing trials in Sweden in 2005 and 2006.
In September 2006, the FMV placed a contract for detailed design work on Archer and, in January 2007, a contract for the next development phase. The Swedish Army has a requirement for 24 systems (two battalions). Following In September 2008, the Swedish government approved the final development and procurement of the Archer artillery system.
In November 2008, Sweden and Norway signed a co-operative agreement for the development of the Archer system and, in January 2009, awarded BAE Systems a contract to complete development of the artillery system. A final prototype is scheduled for completion by September 2009, which is expected to be followed by a contract for 48 systems 24 for Sweden and 24 for Norway. Archer is planned to enter service in 2011.
The Archer system is a development of the earlier155mm towed FH77 L39, of which more than 700 were produced and are in service with the Swedish, Nigerian and Indian armed forces.
Vehicle
The vehicle platform is a modification of the Volvo A30D 6×6 articulated all-terrain hauler vehicle. The vehicle cabin and engine compartment are fully armoured and the cab is fitted with bullet and fragmentation-proof windows. The cabin seats up to four personnel. The howitzer is operated by three or four crew.
The cabin is fitted with a door each side and a circular roof hatch.
Weapon systems
The main weapon is the 155mm 52-calibre gun. The gun uses the proven design of the cradle and recoil system from the current generation FH 77B towed field howitzer.
The weapon is equipped with a fire control system, laying system and inertial navigation and a muzzle velocity radar. Data from the radar is downloaded to the onboard computerised fire control system. However Archer can use other remote weapon stations on the market.
A remote weapon system, comprising a day and night sight with a 7.62mm general-purpose machine gun, is installed on the roof of the cab. BAE Systems Bofors has developed the Lemur family of gyro-stabilised, fragment-protected, electro-optical sights and remotely controlled (RC) weapon systems. The Lemur machine gun can be aimed and fired from inside the armour-protected cabin.
Ammunition
The vehicle carries 20 150mm projectiles in the fully automatic magazine and an additional 20 projectiles for reload. The howitzer can use NATO modular charges or Bofors Uniflex 2 modular charges.
The Uniflex 2IM modular charge system consists of two sizes of combustible charge cases; one full-size and one half-size case, both filled with the same type of insensitive guanylurea dinitramide (GuDN) propellant. The modular charge system allows several increments of charge to be available and increases the gun system's multiple rounds simultaneous impact (MRSI) capability and good range overlap between the increments.
With BAE Bofors / Nexter Bonus rounds the range is 35km. The range of the gun is extended to 60km with the precision-guided Raytheon / Bofors XM982 Excalibur round. The Excalibur shell is corrected in flight towards a pre-programmed trajectory by a GPS guidance system.
Deployment
The system is operated by three or four crew members who are protected in combat by being under armour. The armoured platform provides protection against 7.62mm rounds, armour penetration rounds, 6kg mines (level 2 STANAG 4569) and has NBC protection for the crew.
The system is designed for high strategic, operational and tactical mobility. The vehicle can reach road-speeds of up to 70km/h, is capable of traversing snow up to a depth of 100cm, is rail transportable and can be air-transportable in the new A400M aircraft. A large hydraulically operated stabiliser is installed in the rear of the chassis and is lowered with the vehicle in the selected firing position.
The gun elevation and traverse ranges are 0° to +70° and -75° to +75°. The initial deployment time and the redeployment times are each less than 30 seconds.
The system provides precision strike firepower and high sustained firepower for support and for deep firing operations with more than 25t of ammunition per gun and 24-hour operation.
The howitzer has a continuous fire rate of 75 rounds an hour, an intensive fire rate of 20 rounds (i.e. a full magazine) in 2.5 minutes, and a salvo fire rate of three rounds in 15 seconds. The MRSI capability, multiple round simultaneous impact, is up to six rounds. Direct-sighting can be used for target ranges up to 2,000m.
DESERT FIGHTER
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No heavy arty was used... try light mortars maybe.
U were using all available resources for example ur bofors.
Anyways dont derail the thread...
Carry on with the topic.
sancho
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The problem is, this is only one part of the artillery modernisation right? IA also wants numbers of self propelled howitzers, 120mm mortars, tracked and wheeled tank destroyers and so on. The longer they need to evaluate, the longer they will need to evaluate the rest, not to mention the production of all those arms.
Can't understand why IA can't deal with it in a better way!
Can't understand why IA can't deal with it in a better way!
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