Army Operation In Swat

[bhangra12345]

Here is the irony, when the government refused to do the same at the LM, because they were not sure how many hundreds of innocent students were inside and would suffer, they weer criticized from here to Timbuctoo for not doing so - now that they are using that tactic, they are being criticized for "causing suffering to the innocent people".

Make up your minds people, if it was ok in the case of LM, then it should be alright now. If you do not support it now, then admit that the action the GoP took at LM was completely appropriate.

Of course nothing is absolute - what may have worked in the LM, may be not be a good idea here. Only the people on the ground know what steps to take. While the blockade may cause suffering, so will a protracted conflict - causing pain in the short term may very likely cause fewer casualties, military and civilian, than allowing the militants to remain supplied (it would be illogical to think that weapons will not find their way in with the food supplies).

Stopping food to a confined location, where the population can at best be in hundreds and a confined location is different from blockading a complete district of its food, dont you think?

LM, a small mosque in the centre of the capital city which can be blockaded by having people all round the city and where you know that you can have access if you want within 4 hours anywhere inside, is different from a district, or you think there is no difference at all.

Let me tell you the foolish ness of this episode. What will happen is the women and children will move out of the area as refugees to another district in the area, but the children have only one future for them, become unruly elements without any education for them, in short no future.

then the whole of fence sitters and some who were actually with Pakistan intially actually turn completely against Pakistan, they will start contributing infact their whole stores to the militants and these militants will become the heroes with the villians being Pakistan. and yes, because of the food ban, they will start raiding the villages and towns nearby the borders of swat which means you have just increased the conflict territory in a jiffy.

If you want to break Pakistan into pieces, frankly even India couldnt have come up with a better idea, congratulations to you and all these thinkers.

Ever wondered why even Israel stopped short of exercising this option on Palestine?

 

[IceCold]

How do you plan to stop only the Moulana Saheb to not get his 7 tea spoons without capturing him?

Because a total food blockade is being imposed which includes sugar too. And if you happen to read a few posts above yours where a member quoted mulana's spokeperson about threatning sucide attacks if this blockade isnt lifted suggesting that it is indeed working as planed.

 

[bhangra12345]

Because a total food blockade is being imposed which includes sugar too. And if you happen to read a few posts above yours where a member quoted mulana's spokeperson about threatning sucide attacks if this blockade isnt lifted suggesting that it is indeed working as planed.

Probably you dont understand the meaning of the word "ONLY"

 

[bhangra12345]

It is called 'Resource control'!

It was practised in Vietnam.

It is said to be effective in ensuring that no extra population is in the zone i.e. the terrorists. However, more often than not, it has not been very successful, even though it is a useful tool.

Salim sir,

It is a very effective tool, I have no doubts about that.

but I notice a small but a significance difference, all those "resource controllers" never called that area as their homeland and never intended to make it as such. whereas Pakistan and Swat do not fall under this scenario.

Ofcourse, the only option I see after the completion of this strategy (after 5-10 years) is, after this will be swamping of Swat with different "development" strategies, whose sole aim will be move Punjabis and Sindhis to this location and thus complete a demographic change. Without this step, Swat will remain a problem area for eternity.

 

[IceCold]

Stopping food to a confined location, where the population can at best be in hundreds and a confined location is different from blockading a complete district of its food, dont you think?

LM, a small mosque in the centre of the capital city which can be blockaded by having people all round the city and where you know that you can have access if you want within 4 hours anywhere inside, is different from a district, or you think there is no difference at all.

Let me tell you the foolish ness of this episode. What will happen is the women and children will move out of the area as refugees to another district in the area, but the children have only one future for them, become unruly elements without any education for them, in short no future.

then the whole of fence sitters and some who were actually with Pakistan intially actually turn completely against Pakistan, they will start contributing infact their whole stores to the militants and these militants will become the heroes with the villians being Pakistan. and yes, because of the food ban, they will start raiding the villages and towns nearby the borders of swat which means you have just increased the conflict territory in a jiffy.

If you want to break Pakistan into pieces, frankly even India couldnt have come up with a better idea, congratulations to you and all these thinkers.

Ever wondered why even Israel stopped short of exercising this option on Palestine?

very touchy! i'll have to admit. Seems india is getting what it finally wanted to break pakistan. You guys must be very happy and content. But reality is way different then you presumed. Before this conflict ever began, hundred of thousands of people had migrated to safe places one thing, secondly the majority of the population there lived their lives on the money that was earned by tourism. Since after mulana sb held swat hostage, all that tourism was over and this means no money for the local population. People of swat were waiting all along for the government to take measures to stop this mulana and they were upset as to why government is delaying the military operation. This means that your theory about locals getting against the government doesnt apply since they were even more eager to get the operation started.
As for israel, i think it has on number of occasions put a number of different blockades on palestine. Besides different places have different circumstances. You cant compare the two. And because palestine is a seperate country, israel has to face a lot of opposition from the rest of the world excerising such options, though israel still does, either restricting movement or seizing accounts, putting political palestine leaders in jail and sort of things. These all come under the roof of blockades. Or does it not?

 

[IceCold]

One more thing i forget to mention is that all whose who have migrated, army is providing them with all the basic necessities of life i.e food shelter. So who's better army whos not only flushing the militants out so that people could return to their normal life and peace could be restored but providing them with shelter or the militants who are forcing the people to give them a part of their income and who are the main reason people of swat are facing these circumstances.

 

[bhangra12345]

very touchy! i'll have to admit. Seems india is getting what it finally wanted to break pakistan. You guys must be very happy and content. But reality is way different then you presumed. Before this conflict ever began, hundred of thousands of people had migrated to safe places one thing, secondly the majority of the population there lived their lives on the money that was earned by tourism. Since after mulana sb held swat hostage, all that tourism was over and this means no money for the local population. People of swat were waiting all along for the government to take measures to stop this mulana and they were upset as to why government is delaying the military operation. This means that your theory about locals getting against the government doesnt apply since they were even more eager to get the operation started.

You really dont see the difference do you? did I ever say anything about the whole operation? What I said was against this particular blockade.

hundreds of thousands migrated? ok, but now you have forced EVERYONE to become refugees. This makes a big difference.

As for israel, i think it has on number of occasions put a number of different blockades on palestine. Besides different places have different circumstances. You cant compare the two. And because palestine is a seperate country, israel has to face a lot of opposition from the rest of the world excerising such options, though israel still does, either restricting movement or seizing accounts, putting political palestine leaders in jail and sort of things. These all come under the roof of blockades. Or does it not?

Yes, situation is different and infact far worse for Israel, but it never blockaded food. ponder on it? Restricting money, movement, leaders but never food, even during the phases of complete economic blockade.

What was the reactions by Palestine to various blockade and why would an individual reaction either in Palestine or Swat be different?

 

[bhangra12345]

One more thing i forget to mention is that all whose who have migrated, army is providing them with all the basic necessities of life i.e food shelter. So who's better army whos not only flushing the militants out so that people could return to their normal life and peace could be restored but providing them with shelter or the militants who are forcing the people to give them a part of their income and who are the main reason people of swat are facing these circumstances.

Become a forced refugee in those camps and then talk to me of enjoying it.

What "normal" life are you talking about? You have just made all the people come out of their land and after a few years you expect them to start from where they left, and then expect to thank you for that?

 

[IceCold]

Become a forced refugee in those camps and then talk to me of enjoying it.

Army is not the one rather its the miltans that forced. Keep the difference.

What "normal" life are you talking about? You have just made all the people come out of their land and after a few years you expect them to start from where they left, and then expect to thank you for that?

How did you come to this conclusion? Army wasnt the one who's asking the people of swat to give them a part of their imcome. army is not the one that move around the area with guns to threaten people and all the tourism that people of swat lived their lives on stoped. Few years you must be kidding me. This shows how lack of knowlege you have about the situation. A few days and all the militants will be flushed out, and it wouldnt take more then a few months for the people to get back to their normal life.They dont need to thank anyone for that, army is doing their job, to safeguard pakistan and its people.
People of pakistan are not stupid, they know whats being going on thanks to the awareness thats being given to them in all aspects. They all know whos in favour of them and whos not. And that is the reason no matter what these indian backed elements do they are unable to get the support of the masses.

 

[khan5036]

Mr Bhangra

Looks like you could NOT understand the message in my posts.

Mainly my views and your views are the same.

When I said ''Well the common sense here is that is Swat populated totally by militants?'', it means I was asking guys who are in favour of starving people that do they think Swat's population is comprised of only militants? And then I asked them if Govt. is claiming that militants are less than 1000, who else lives in Swat? Ofcourse rest are only peaceful lot and then I further asked them that ofcourse people in Swat also need food, as do people in any other area need, regardless of whether a Maualana needs 7 teaspoons or a poor person needs tea without milk.

SO I hope Mr Bhangra now you will understand what I meant, but as I live in the UK, I may have adopted a bit of English Sarcastic ways for people who talk not a sense sometimes ( I do not mean you at all).

I agree that people are doing militancy in Swat, BUT there is NO POINT in starving whole SWAT, would they starve the Presidence in Lal Mosque problem?

Thanks

 

[khan5036]

By the way, for Ice cold, please read this BBC News regrading the Govt.'s Refugee Camps, Thanks a lot.

BBCUrdu.com

 

[khan5036]

I am originally from Swat, to make it short ALWAYS NIP THE Problem IN THE BUD, I always say in the start even a police SHO could sort out all this problem in Swat (The very start of FM Radio), but we can NOT simply say that MMA Govt. kep their eyes closed.

Everyone knows the main rule is the federal rule in Pakistan.

Well Maulana Fazal did act few silly things, stopping girls from going to school, stopping polio teams, etc. etc.

 

[khan5036]

Plus Maulana Fazal DOES NOT have any right to maintain a parallel Govt. in Swat, it is NOT his right!!

 

[JF-17 Thunder]

Swat under curfew as migration continues
Sunday, November 25, 2007

Staff Report

MINGORA: The local administration declared a 24-hour curfew in Swat on Saturday to be observed from 2pm on Saturday to 2pm on Sunday (today).

Almost all business and commercial centres, government and private schools and other offices remained closed in Mingora, and roads remained deserted.

Security forces, on the other hand, continued pounding Taliban positions in the troubled area on Saturday night. However, there were no reports of casualties from the firing.

Pedestrians injured: Locals said three pedestrians were injured in shelling by gunship helicopters in the Serai Manglor area of the district. An official statement here said a number of militants were killed as their positions were targeted with artillery and mortar fire northeast of the Manglawar, Jatkot and Najia Top areas.

The statement said the local administration had decided to accommodate displaced people from affected areas into government schools. The evacuees are currently living in various hotels of the city. The statement said life remained peaceful in Mingora and offices remained open during the day.

Meanwhile, residents said evacuees continued arriving in Mingora from Kabal and Matta tehsils. Most of the people, they said, had walked to the city.


Daily Times

 

[JF-17 Thunder]

Soldier injured in Mir Ali rocket attack
Sunday, November 25, 2007

MIRANSHAH: A soldier was injured when a rocket fired at the Khajori checkpost landed in the Army Fort in the Mir Ali subdivision here on Saturday, official sources told Daily Times.

Separately, militants fired 25 to 30 rockets at an army camp in the Mir Ali area, causing no damage. Security forces retaliated and an artillery shell landed in a mosque, killing Maazullah Khan and injuring three others.

People from five villages – Haider Khel, Mosakay, Hurmuz, Sokhel and Api – in the Mir Ali area are shifting to safer places. staff report


Daily Times