Army looks for advanced armoured personnel carriers

[adatta]

Army looks for advanced armoured personnel carriers
TNN 11 November 2009, 02:58am IST

NEW DELHI: Dazzled by American eight-wheeled Stryker combat vehicles during last month's `Yudh Abhyas' Indo-US wargames, the Army has launched

its own hunt for armoured personal carriers (APCs).

A global RFI (request for information) has been issued by Army's additional directorate general of weapons and equipment for procuring the wheeled APCs. The plan is to acquire at least 100 APCs, to be followed by indigenous production after transfer of technology to an Indian firm.

At present, Army operates over 1,500 APCs or infantry combat vehicles called BMP-I and BMP-II, which can carry around 10 soldiers each, in its 26 mechanised infantry battalions.

It wants the new APCs to be `air-portable' in IAF's heavy-lift aircraft and `sea-portable' in Navy's amphibious `landing ship tanks', apart from having advanced weaponry, night-fighting capabilities and NBC (nuclear, chemical and biological) protection.

Army's hunt for advanced APCs comes soon after the Yudh Abhyas wargames at Babina during which US, eager to grab a major chunk of the lucrative Indian arms market, showcased its high-tech weaponry like the Stryker APCs as well as the Javelin anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs).

Incidentally, as reported earlier, this was the largest overseas deployment of the Strykers after Iraq and Afghanistan, coming as the American soldiers did with 17 Stryker APCs.

Costing around $1.5 million apiece, the Strykers come equipped with advanced weapons, CBRN (chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear) protection and C4I (command, control, communications, computers and intelligence) systems.

 

[amunhotep]

The best APC in the world is the BMP-T of russia, the stryker is one of the costliest APCs in the world with no ability to defeat tanks , whereas the BMP-T armament can effectively defeat both lightly armored ground and aerial targets and heavily armored tank-type ground targets.Its main armament consists of the 30mm 2A42 automatic gun and coaxially-mounted AG-30 or AGS-17A grenade launcher stabilized in two planes, and the Kornet ATGM system provided with a semiautomatic jamproof laser-guided system.

 

[adatta]

well good info by amun...it's good that we are now balancing both US and Russia quite effectively in our favour...and we could choose the best from all the options available... also depends how much TOT one considers...

 

[sudhir007]

well good info by amun...it's good that we are now balancing both US and Russia quite effectively in our favour...and we could choose the best from all the options available... also depends how much TOT one considers...

yes you r ryt but now India arm force and political leader in the mood to buy usa weapon.

 

[Im_a_bud_bud]

lol, it's still buy buy buy for us ay? I bet the indigenous one coming later is still going to be another Tejas or Arjun.

 

[sancho]

The plan is to acquire at least 100 APCs, to be followed by indigenous production after transfer of technology to an Indian firm.

Man, what a stupid idea again! It will simply be a licence production, what about Abhay IFV and why not go for a co-development? Also there are better options than the Stryker, like the Patria AMV that even the USMC is evaluating now!

The best APC in the world is the BMP-T of russia, the stryker is one of the costliest APCs in the world with no ability to defeat tanks , whereas the BMP-T armament can effectively defeat both lightly armored ground and aerial targets and heavily armored tank-type ground targets.Its main armament consists of the 30mm 2A42 automatic gun and coaxially-mounted AG-30 or AGS-17A grenade launcher stabilized in two planes, and the Kornet ATGM system provided with a semiautomatic jamproof laser-guided system.

Look at the requirement!

It wants the new APCs to be `air-portable' in IAF's heavy-lift aircraft and `sea-portable' in Navy's amphibious `landing ship tanks', apart from having advanced weaponry, night-fighting capabilities and NBC (nuclear, chemical and biological) protection.

Especially the air and sea-portable points hints on light wheeled APCs, also most APCs today have anti tank missiles and can be armed with different kind of weapons including 105 to 120mm guns.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Both BMP-T of Russia and Abhay IFV of the DRDO are tracked APCs. The army is specifically looking for a wheeled APC probably to serve a different purpose. The above posted report is absolute garbage. The army has just released the RFI and after going through it, it appears that the army is open for all options. Here is the full RFI.

Oct 2009

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION FROM VENDORS FOR WHEELED ARMOURED PERSONAL CARRIER​

1. The Indian Army is desirous of procuring Wheeled Armoured
Personal Carrier for employing in United Nation Missions.
2. It is requested that information may specifically be provided in reply
to this Request for Information (RFI) :-
(a) Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) status of the
equipment.
(b) Names of the firms (if any) that have been authorised by the
OEM to deal with the Indian MoD.
(c) Willingness of the firm to provide the equipment for trials on
‘No Cost No Commitment’ basis.
(d) Level of technology that the firm would be willing to transfer
to a firm that will be nominated by Indian MoD.
(e) Willingness of the firm to accept the offset clauses as
enshrined in the DPP-2006.
(f) Willingness of the firm to participate in the procurement
process in accordance with DPP 2008.
3. A questionnaire giving specific inputs for the proposed equipment is
given as Appendix ‘A’.

Appendix ‘A’

QUESTIONNAIRE FOR INFORMATION FOR WHEELED ARMOURED PERSONAL CARRIER​

OPERATIONAL CHARACTERISTICS

Q1. What is the nomenclature of the equipment having the desired
configuration of a wheeled APC with the weapon platforms and sighting
systems as required?
Q2. A brief description of the equipment / system be provided including
number of wheels.
Q3. What are the major characteristics of the equipment.
Q4. Is the APC air portable and portable by LSTs in service with the Indian
Army?
Q5. What are the weapon systems fitted on the APC and what is their
calibre?
Q6. What are the STANAG protection criteria of the equipment against small
arms / direct firing weapons and mines / IEDs?
Q7. What is the strength of the crew and the capacity of carrying fully
equipped troops in the equipment?
Q8. At what maximum and minimum temperatures can the equipment
function?
Q9. Is the proposed equipment in service with any Army presently?
Q10. What is the time frame in which the 100 APC can be supplied after
placement of the order?

PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS

1. Mobility.

Q11. What are the dimensions of the equipment in the following aspects:-
(a) Weight.
(b) Height.
(c) Length.
(d) Ground Clearance.
Q12. What is the power to weight ratio of the engine?
Q13. What are the performance parameters in terms of:-
(a) On road speed.
(b) Cross country speed.
(c) Afloat speed.
Q14. What is the obstacle crossing capability in terms of:-
(a) Maximum gradient (Entry).
(b) Maximum gradient (Exit).
(c) Side slope.
(d) Vertical step.
(e) Trench width crossing.
(f) Ability to negotiate water current of 3-4 knots.
Q15. What is the cruising range of the equipment on plain road and cross
country?
Q16. What type of transmission system is fitted?
Q17. What is the type of suspension system in the equipment?
Q18. What navigation system is fitted in the APC?

2. Firepower.

Q19. (a) Does the turret have space for fitment of an ATGM system?
(b) Do you have an ATGM fitted on the turret;
(i) If Yes, what type / Generation.
(ii) If No, can an ATGM be fitted and integrated.
Q20. What is the caliber of the main weapon system in terms of:-
(a) Bore.
(b) Range. (AP, HE, Low flying helicopters)
(c) Is the weapon capable of traversing 3600?
(d) Can the weapon fire both in single shot and automatic mode?
Q21. Is there a coaxially fitted / mounted machine gun? What is the caliber?
Q22. Does the vehicle have an automatic grenade launcher? What is the
calibre of the weapon?
Q23. Does the Commander have a Panoramic Day and Night TI sight? Is it
capable of engaging low level helicopters?
Q24. Is the gunner sight a Day and Night TI sight?
Q25. What sight system is there for the driver for night and what is the range?
Q26. What are the features of the TI sight as per following parameters:-
(a) Does it provide hot and cold images?
(b) Does it have a dual axis independent stabilization?
(c) What is the operative range of infrared spectrum?
(d) What read out technology does the detector have?
(e) Range. Tk / Vehs Group of Pers
(i) Detection.
(ii) Recognition.
(iii) Identification.
(f) Field of View.
(i) Day.
(ii) Magnification.
(g) Thermal Imaging.
(i) Narrow.
(ii) Wide.
(iii) With electronic magnification.
(h) Does the sight operate on vehicle power supply?

3. Protection.

Q27. What is the level of protection against small arms AP ammunition?
Q28. What levels of STANAG protection does the vehicle offer against IEDs
and mines?
Q29. Is the vehicle capable of NBC protection? Does it have detectors?
Q30. What is the Instant Fire Detection and Suppression System (IFDSS)
fitted in the vehicle?

4. Communication.

Q31. Does the vehicle have internal and external communication facility?

OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE

Q32. Is a bore sighting equipment provided?
Q33. Are all spares and SMTs/STEs required for repairs provided?
Q34. Does all electronic equipment conform to ‘MIL GRADE’ specifications?
Q35. What all literature concerning the equipment will be provided during
trials and with each equipment once contracted?

MISC

Q36. Are you manufacturing Wheeled APC on your own or in collaboration
with other industrial partner – Provide relevant details.

 

[amunhotep]

Both BMP-T of Russia and Abhay IFV of the DRDO are tracked APCs. The army is specifically looking for a wheeled APC probably to serve a different purpose. The above posted report is absolute garbage. The army has just released the RFI and after going through it, it appears that the army is open for all options. Here is the full RFI.

i just went through the RFI & after going through it the APC that comes to mind is BMP-3 not stryker

the only advantage that stryker has that it is wheeled but the BMP-3 can be modified to a wheeled version as well

if not the BMP-T then atleast the BMP-3 should be looked at , i mean if there is no political reason behind it then there is no need to go for the stryker


The BMP-3 weighs the same as stryker so i guess that the BMP-3 is air-portable

from wiki

The BMP-3, nicknamed Troyka, is one of the most heavily armed infantry combat vehicles in service, fitted with a low velocity 2A70 100 mm rifled gun, which can fire conventional HE-Frag shells or 9M117 (AT-10 Stabber) ATGMs (40 rounds and 8 ATGM are carried), a 2A72 dual feed autocannon with 500 rounds and a rate of fire of 350 to 400 rpm, and a 7.62 mm machine gun with 2,000 rounds, all mounted coaxially in the turret. There are also two 7.62 mm bow machine guns, again with 2,000 rounds each. The BMP-3 is capable of engaging targets out to 5,000–6,000 meters with its ATGM weapon system 9K116-3 Basnya (with an approximately eighty percent probability of a hit[clarification needed] at that range). If the missile launcher is destroyed, missile guidance ceases and the missile may miss its target. The minimum engagement distance, flight time and vulnerability of launcher are typical of command-guided, rather than fire-and-forget, ATGM systems; most systems in service are command-guided

but i know the reason behind india going for the stryker kickbacks , I am sure in my mind that india has taken kickbacks from the americans for the stryker

otherwise why would india buy a substandard & yet costly APC like the STRYKER ???????????


=

 

[Screaming Skull]

i just went through the RFI & after going through it the APC that comes to mind is BMP-3 not stryker

the only advantage that stryker has that it is wheeled but the BMP-3 can be modified to a wheeled version as well

if not the BMP-T then atleast the BMP-3 should be looked at , i mean if there is no political reason behind it then there is no need to go for the stryker


The BMP-3 weighs the same as stryker so i guess that the BMP-3 is air-portable

from wiki



but i know the reason behind india going for the stryker kickbacks , I am sure in my mind that india has taken kickbacks from the americans for the stryker

otherwise why would india buy a substandard & yet costly APC like the STRYKER ???????????


=

Look you are assuming too much! The fact that the IA sent out an RFI is reason enough to believe that it intends to evaluate different systems competitively. The RFI was released on 10th Nov 2009 and within a day you are concluding that IA received kickbacks? Don’t base your opinions on a few sold out journalists. Whether the Stryker is a substandard system or not will be revealed after the IA has evaluated the bids from different OEMs. Until then hold on to your ponies and don’t accuse the IA for simply following set procedures.

 

[deckingraj]

but i know the reason behind india going for the stryker kickbacks , I am sure in my mind that india has taken kickbacks from the americans for the stryker

No comments on above post...It just plane rant

otherwise why would india buy a substandard & yet costly APC like the STRYKER ???????????

May i know on what basis you conclude that we are going for Stryker?? Not only you accused IA of kickbacks but also concluded that whole RFI is an eye-wash....

 

[gogbot]

Will this RFI, follow the NEW DPP ?

 

[favabeans]

I hope India will not try to develop this hardware on her own; if she does, who knows how many decades will go by before she even manages to produce a single prototype. By then, it will have been obsolete. The only solution is to buy directly from those who already have one ready to sell.

 

[ironman]

Both BMP-T of Russia and Abhay IFV of the DRDO are tracked APCs. The army is specifically looking for a wheeled APC probably to serve a different purpose. The above posted report is absolute garbage. The army has just released the RFI and after going through it, it appears that the army is open for all options. Here is the full RFI.

Yup... the question answered.

1. The Indian Army is desirous of procuring Wheeled Armoured
Personal Carrier for employing in United Nation Missions.

 

[sancho]

I wish we would join the swedes and BAE in the development of the SEP Modular Armoured Tactical System!

BAE Systems Hägglunds AB

Key features:

- modular design for up to 24 different roles on 3 different bases (tracked, 6x6 wheeled and 8x8 wheeled)
- light weight and air transportable (even in our new C130Js!)
- stealthy, due to low profile and noise reduction
- next gen techs like diesel-electric propuslion

It is clearly the best choice for an army, that want's more commonality to reduce costs and latest techs. IA could replace thousands of old wheeled and tracked APC/IFV at once and in the most cost-effective way!

Wheeled 6x6:



Wheeled 8x8:



Tracked:



Interior 1:



Interior 2:



Next gen co-developments like FGFA, MRTA, or this makes much more sense than simple licence production of foreign arms. We could replace old arms in big numbers, get way more ToT and involvement of our own industry and would need less time for the development.
The SEP project is stoped at the moment because Sweden don't have the money to develop it alone and a foreign partner is more then welcome.