What's new

Army hunts for lethal assault rifle, junks DRDO's Excalibur!!

ravinderpalrulez

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
156
Reaction score
0
Country
India
Location
India
Highlights
•Army in search for more lethal weapon, junks rifle offered by the DRDO-Ordnance Factory Board combine.
•Decision taken to go for 7.62x51mm rifles with a higher kill probability and accuracy

NEW DELHI: Army has launched a fresh hunt for a new-generation assault rifle all over again. Rejecting the 5.56x45mm calibre Excalibur rifle offered by the DRDO-Ordnance Factory Board combine, the force has now decided to go in for a 7.62x51mm gun with "higher kill probability and stopping power".
In the race to acquire high-end weapon systems, from submarines and fighters to howitzers and helicopters, basic weaponry and protective gear for ordinary foot-soldiers often do not get the requisite attention and push by the brass.
But the Army says it means business this time, shrugging aside failed attempts to acquire new rifles over the last decade.
The RFI (request for information) for the new 7.62mm assault rifles is going to be issued soon to elicit responses from around the globe. "The GSQRs (general staff qualitative requirements) or technical parameters for the rifles will then be formulated before the actual tender is floated to invite bids," said a source.
It was in April that the Army commanders' conference first discussed whether the force required a 7.62mm rifle that "killed" or a 5.56mm rifle that "incapacitated" enemy soldiers, as was then reported by TOI.
"The decision has now been taken to go for 7.62x51mm rifles with a higher kill probability and accuracy at an enhanced effective range of 500-metre," said the source.
The military wisdom till now was that the 5.56mm rifle was better for conventional war because it generally injured an enemy soldier, tying down at least two of his colleagues to carry him in the battlefield. Conversely, the 7.62mm rifle was better for counter-insurgency since terrorists had to be killed at the first instance, eliminating the risk of "suicide bombing".
Soldiers largely use the 7.62mm AK-47 rifles for counter-insurgency operations in Kashmir and the northeast, even though the infantry is saddled with the indigenous glitch-prone 5.56mm INSAS (Indian small arms system) rifles.
The fully-automatic Excalibur, which fires 5.56x45mm ammunition, is a much-improved version of INSAS rifle that entered service in 1994-1995. But the Army now wants 7.62mm rifles for greater lethality.
The Army's overambitious experiment to induct rifles with interchangeable barrels, with a 5.56x45mm primary barrel for conventional warfare and a 7.62x39mm secondary one for counter-terrorism, miserably flopped last year.
As was first reported by TOI in May last year, the proposed mega project was junked since the rifles on offer by armament firms like Colt (US), Beretta (Italy), Ceska (Czech) and Israel Weapon Industries were not found cost-effective or suitable after extensive trials.
Under the project, 65,000 rifles were to be directly acquired from the selected vendor to equip the 120 infantry battalions deployed on the western and eastern fronts. The OFB was to then subsequently manufacture over 1,13,000 such rifles after getting transfer of technology from the foreign company .
Source- toi
 
.
The Army's overambitious experiment to induct rifles with interchangeable barrels, with a 5.56x45mm primary barrel for conventional warfare and a 7.62x39mm secondary one for counter-terrorism, miserably flopped last year.
So no MCIWS it seems.
 
. .
Highlights
•Army in search for more lethal weapon, junks rifle offered by the DRDO-Ordnance Factory Board combine.
•Decision taken to go for 7.62x51mm rifles with a higher kill probability and accuracy

NEW DELHI: Army has launched a fresh hunt for a new-generation assault rifle all over again. Rejecting the 5.56x45mm calibre Excalibur rifle offered by the DRDO-Ordnance Factory Board combine, the force has now decided to go in for a 7.62x51mm gun with "higher kill probability and stopping power".
In the race to acquire high-end weapon systems, from submarines and fighters to howitzers and helicopters, basic weaponry and protective gear for ordinary foot-soldiers often do not get the requisite attention and push by the brass.
But the Army says it means business this time, shrugging aside failed attempts to acquire new rifles over the last decade.
The RFI (request for information) for the new 7.62mm assault rifles is going to be issued soon to elicit responses from around the globe. "The GSQRs (general staff qualitative requirements) or technical parameters for the rifles will then be formulated before the actual tender is floated to invite bids," said a source.
It was in April that the Army commanders' conference first discussed whether the force required a 7.62mm rifle that "killed" or a 5.56mm rifle that "incapacitated" enemy soldiers, as was then reported by TOI.
"The decision has now been taken to go for 7.62x51mm rifles with a higher kill probability and accuracy at an enhanced effective range of 500-metre," said the source.
The military wisdom till now was that the 5.56mm rifle was better for conventional war because it generally injured an enemy soldier, tying down at least two of his colleagues to carry him in the battlefield. Conversely, the 7.62mm rifle was better for counter-insurgency since terrorists had to be killed at the first instance, eliminating the risk of "suicide bombing".
Soldiers largely use the 7.62mm AK-47 rifles for counter-insurgency operations in Kashmir and the northeast, even though the infantry is saddled with the indigenous glitch-prone 5.56mm INSAS (Indian small arms system) rifles.
The fully-automatic Excalibur, which fires 5.56x45mm ammunition, is a much-improved version of INSAS rifle that entered service in 1994-1995. But the Army now wants 7.62mm rifles for greater lethality.
The Army's overambitious experiment to induct rifles with interchangeable barrels, with a 5.56x45mm primary barrel for conventional warfare and a 7.62x39mm secondary one for counter-terrorism, miserably flopped last year.
As was first reported by TOI in May last year, the proposed mega project was junked since the rifles on offer by armament firms like Colt (US), Beretta (Italy), Ceska (Czech) and Israel Weapon Industries were not found cost-effective or suitable after extensive trials.
Under the project, 65,000 rifles were to be directly acquired from the selected vendor to equip the 120 infantry battalions deployed on the western and eastern fronts. The OFB was to then subsequently manufacture over 1,13,000 such rifles after getting transfer of technology from the foreign company .
Source- toi
I knew it from day that you will not for that local Ex caliber


  • AA
    Army hunts for lethal assault rifle, junks DRDO's Excalibur
53027863.cms
HIGHLIGHTS
  • Army in search for more lethal weapon, junks rifle offered by the DRDO-Ordnance Factory Board combine.
  • Decision taken to go for 7.62x51mm rifles with a higher kill probability and accuracy
NEW DELHI: Army has launched a fresh hunt for a new-generation assault rifle all over again. Rejecting the 5.56x45mm calibre Excalibur rifle offered by the DRDO-Ordnance Factory Board combine, the force has now decided to go in for a 7.62x51mm gun with "higher kill probability and stopping power".

In the race to acquire high-end weapon systems, from submarines and fighters to howitzers and helicopters, basic weaponry and protective gear for ordinary foot-soldiers often do not get the requisite attention and push by the brass.

But the Army says it means business this time, shrugging aside failed attempts to acquire new rifles over the last decade.

The RFI (request for information) for the new 7.62mm assault rifles is going to be issued soon to elicit responses from around the globe. "The GSQRs (general staff qualitative requirements) or technical parameters for the rifles will then be formulated before the actual tender is floated to invite bids," said a source.

It was in April that the Army commanders' conference first discussed whether the force required a 7.62mm rifle that "killed" or a 5.56mm rifle that "incapacitated" enemy soldiers, as was then reported by TOI.

"The decision has now been taken to go for 7.62x51mm rifles with a higher kill probability and accuracy at an enhanced effective range of 500-metre," said the source.

The military wisdom till now was that the 5.56mm rifle was better for conventional war because it generally injured an enemy soldier, tying down at least two of his colleagues to carry him in the battlefield. Conversely, the 7.62mm rifle was better for counter-insurgency since terrorists had to be killed at the first instance, eliminating the risk of "suicide bombing".

Soldiers largely use the 7.62mm AK-47 rifles for counter-insurgency operations in Kashmir and the northeast, even though the infantry is saddled with the indigenous glitch-prone 5.56mm INSAS (Indian small arms system) rifles.

The fully-automatic Excalibur, which fires 5.56x45mm ammunition, is a much-improved version of INSAS rifle that entered service in 1994-1995. But the Army now wants 7.62mm rifles for greater lethality.

The Army's overambitious experiment to induct rifles with interchangeable barrels, with a 5.56x45mm primary barrel for conventional warfare and a 7.62x39mm secondary one for counter-terrorism, miserably flopped last year.

As was first reported by TOI in May last year, the proposed mega project was junked since the rifles on offer by armament firms like Colt (US), Beretta (Italy), Ceska (Czech) and Israel Weapon Industries were not found cost-effective or suitable after extensive trials.

Under the project, 65,000 rifles were to be directly acquired from the selected vendor to equip the 120 infantry battalions deployed on the western and eastern fronts. The OFB was to then subsequently manufacture over 1,13,000 such rifles after getting transfer of technology from the foreign company .

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Arm...unks-DRDOs-Excalibur/articleshow/53027875.cms
 
.
Galil ACE 52, would make sense
 
.
[QUOTE/]
Source- toi

The GQRsS (general staff qualitative requirements) changed for a 7.62x51mm gun



The RFI (request for information) for the new 7.62mm assault rifles is going to be issued soon to elicit responses from around the globe. "The GQRsS (general staff qualitative requirements) or technical parameters for the rifles will then be formulated before the actual tender is floated to invite bids," said a source.

The military wisdom till now was that the 5.56mm rifle was better for conventional war because it generally injured an enemy soldier, tying down at least two of his colleagues to carry him in the battlefield.

Conversely, the 7.62mm rifle was better for counter-insurgency since terrorists had to be killed at the first instance, eliminating the risk of "suicide bombing".

As was first reported by TOI in May last year, the proposed mega project was junked since the rifles on offer by armament firms like Colt (US), Beretta (Italy), Ceska (Czech) and Israel Weapon Industries were not found cost-effective or suitable after extensive trials.
[/QUOTE]


Again Prestitutes at work. Indigenous products haters at the best.

Head line should have been -
"The GQRsS (general staff qualitative requirements) changed for a 7.62x51mm gun"

Quotes from above article sums it up.
 
Last edited:
.
BS news.There are already some 36k rifles in order book.And even if they famously change the requirement again, then there is a govt who will make their life miserable.
My sources said that MP next focus is Army brats and tame down their love for phoren maal.
 
.
BS news.There are already some 36k rifles in order book.And even if they famously change the requirement again, then there is a govt who will make their life miserable.
My sources said that MP next focus is Army brats and tame down their love for phoren maal.
No their requirements make logical sense if they are fighting with terrorists. Earlier they thought injuring enemy is more logical as it require two more to carry them off the field, but suicidal terrorists need to be eliminated to minimize casualties..
 
.
BS news.There are already some 36k rifles in order book.And even if they famously change the requirement again, then there is a govt who will make their life miserable.
My sources said that MP next focus is Army brats and tame down their love for phoren maal.

my thoughts exactly making them develop a lower requirement and then changing it is hardly a fair way of doing things. But if 36K rifles are already ordered, the program is already a success. I don't like money going outside. I think the IA should have asked for a parallel program if they thought the new requirements would meet the needs better.
 
.
Excalibur had been rejected by the CAPFs which went in for X95s, MP series and AKs in order to provide the basic assault rifle for their troops. Only the present chief was in favour of 'make in india' after completion of trials.

Good. We have only INSAS rifles now as personal weapon for our regular units .. a walkover for our neighbours if they decide to move in.

my thoughts exactly making them develop a lower requirement and then changing it is hardly a fair way of doing things. But if 36K rifles are already ordered, the program is already a success. I don't like money going outside. I think the IA should have asked for a parallel program if they thought the new requirements would meet the needs better.

Agreed.

But I don't like our using junk either ..... INSAS SUCKs in high altitude and CI grid ops.

The problem of order is Chief's not anyone else. He tried to ram down a make in india weapon which has been rejected even by the CAPFs and these are organisations which have MoHA who look after their interests as IPS-IAS lobby dominates these organisations and ministries.

When people who are directly benefited from sucking up ditched Excalibur, what sense does it make to have it in IA other than a hope for a gubernatorial position?
 
.
Excalibur had been rejected by the CAPFs which went in for X95s, MP series and AKs in order to provide the basic assault rifle for their troops. Only the present chief was in favour of 'make in india' after completion of trials.

Good. We have only INSAS rifles now as personal weapon for our regular units .. a walkover for our neighbours if they decide to move in.



Agreed.

But I don't like our using junk either ..... INSAS SUCKs in high altitude and CI grid ops.

The problem of order is Chief's not anyone else. He tried to ram down a make in india weapon which has been rejected even by the CAPFs and these are organisations which have MoHA who look after their interests as IPS-IAS lobby dominates these organisations and ministries.

When people who are directly benefited from sucking up ditched Excalibur, what sense does it make to have it in IA other than a hope for a gubernatorial position?

But Excalibur is an evolved version of Insas where a lot of problems have been solved.
 
.
But Excalibur is an evolved version of Insas where a lot of problems have been solved.

You think?

I remember the first INSAS ... damn good weapon .. would not jam in burst mode and its firing pin would sustain burst mode over long periods of time.

Come 2016 .... fire an INSAS over burst mode and probability of pin breaking is more like like than not, third round accuracy sucks at 100 yards (its sucks for everyone hence the 'double tap' technique) but for INSAS it is efficient in case you want to kill a person from heart attack rather than bullet.

And does the indian soldier trust it in CI grid? NO ... jam rate is too high for comfort.

What we see as first model is not what we get
 
.
my thoughts exactly making them develop a lower requirement and then changing it is hardly a fair way of doing things. But if 36K rifles are already ordered, the program is already a success. I don't like money going outside. I think the IA should have asked for a parallel program if they thought the new requirements would meet the needs better.
My point 7.62*51 rifle is a battle rifle not an assault rifile.You cannot feed more than 20bullets in normal cartridge unless you use box type which again too cumbersome.They want 7.62*51 for CI ,its fine but how IA going to adopt a low feed rifle in conventional war?
PS- I will wait for confirmation from reliable source and take this article from infamous rajat pandit with a pinch of salt.
 
.
What happened to MCIWS guys? Is it still under trials/development? It looked good.
 
.
Rifle Cartridge Cartridge weight Weight of loaded magazine 10 kg (22 lbs) ammo load
M14 7.62×51mm 393 grains (25.5 g) 20 rds @ 0.68 kg 14 mags / 280 rds
M16 5.56×45mm 183 grains (11.9 g) 20 rds @ 0.3 kg 33 mags / 660 rds
AK-47 7.62×39mm 281 grains (18.2 g) 30 rds @ 0.75 kg*[8] 13 mags / 390 rds
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom