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Army Aviation lacks helicopters: Parliament Standing Committee on Defence

If and If the Airforce concentrates on maintaining Air Superiority and the Army is given full CAS role then you will also see a lot less friendly kills.Now with our system we need to have a Joint Chief who will acts as a medium for the flow of informations on various operations so that all the assets are properly used and there are no friendly kills as well..which we dont have as yet.

Our system needs to change a lot and needs to follow the US on this.We firstly need a JSOC.Ours is a situation where one SF is over burdened and the others is not seeing the action a Special Forces needs to see.We need tobalance it out.

Secondly the fly boys need to be convinced that their role should be to maintain Air Superiority and CAS role should be given to the Army.The Army and the Air Force would hence be able to function in a better way.

Imagine a Army commander having his Armoured Corps officers,Infantry officers,Artillery officers,Sappers and Air Wing(like i proposed) on one table and jointly planning for an offensive.It will make things a lot easier.

BTW buddy i heard that the Hinds are under Army control but the Air force just takes care of them..is it true?

I totally agree with you but the question remains will the top-brass of IA and IAF see it this way and move to this end?


+ and yeah the Hinds are under IA operational control but flown and maintained by IAF pilots- the best compromise the two sides could reach on this matter.
 
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Nothing new very old story.

The question is when MMS and antony will move their butt??
They can't move their a$$es without the permission of the bureaucracy who rule the roost in India because our politicians are clueless. What the PM proposes, the bureaucracy disposes!! That sucks to hell and high heaven. An example is the direction given by the PM seconded by the DM and FM to the Babus to rustle up an expert committee on grievances of veterans, pay parity with the bureaucracy, One Rank One Pension etc, in 2007.

The babus coolly stonewalled the issue and put it in cold storage! On 20 Apr 2012, a letter was written by the cabinet secretary saying that such a committee is not required!!!!! WTF is going on? Do these buggers even listen to the PM of the country? Nope!

See? The babus rule the country. Because our politicians are clueless, disinterested and busy politicking that they have no time for governance. They have outsourced it to our useless, corrupt and inefficient babus!

Any wonder then at the direction India is heading toward? It's South all the way!
 
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+ and yeah the Hinds are under IA operational control but flown and maintained by IAF pilots- the best compromise the two sides could reach on this matter.

Thats weird man..Why doesnt the Air Force transfer the Helis to the Army.The pilots can be a part of the Army in turns till the time the Army has sufficent pilots(of Hinds).

I totally agree with you but the question remains will the top-brass of IA and IAF see it this way and move to this end?

They have to do it for the sake of the country.Egos shouldnt come in between the interests of the nation.I heard someone say that "How can the Army guys learn the way of flying..its for us to do"..Thats not a good thing.Even if they dont then the AF needs to train them.

On the other hand the Army needs to create good oppurtunities for the Aviators in the Army as they dont get good promotion oppurtunities and in the end quit to either join their parent battalion or to leave for a corporate job.
 
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So a new committee will be formed to look into this matter and this will go on and on and on.. Solution is there and plans are there since the time of Gen. Sunderjee and Rajiv Gandhi.. But No lazy @SS politician in last 26 years bothered to look at it. And the result s for everybody to see.

What a pity state of affairs that the force which stands infront of Army Guns has so meagre resources.. It pains me whenever a General says that they will fight with whatever they have..
 
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Thats weird man..Why doesnt the Air Force transfer the Helis to the Army.The pilots can be a part of the Army in turns till the time the Army has sufficent pilots(of Hinds).
The main problem apart from egos is air space management which is now the prerogative of the Air Force and not the Army. Creating conditions for local air superiority within which attack/recce helicopters can operate unhindered is the responsibility of the Air Force. Therefore, if the Army is equipped with such helicopters, it would create a massive problem in coordination of air assets.

That's the crunch issue. And until an effective air space management doctrine is evolved, it would be extremely difficult to change the status quo.
 
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Thats weird man..Why doesnt the Air Force transfer the Helis to the Army.The pilots can be a part of the Army in turns till the time the Army has sufficent pilots(of Hinds).

It's not a question of pilots, if IA needed to fly those Hinds they easily could but it is a question of doctrine and inter-service rivalry.
 
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What's new in this? The IA is supposed to have at least a 110 Dhruvs, 114 LCHs and 385 LOHs (197 foreign, rest HAL LUH). Even if HAL ramps up at thrice the speed, we will need another full 10 years to get all this stuff in.
 
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They can't move their a$$es without the permission of the bureaucracy who rule the roost in India because our politicians are clueless. What the PM proposes, the bureaucracy disposes!! That sucks to hell and high heaven. An example is the direction given by the PM seconded by the DM and FM to the Babus to rustle up an expert committee on grievances of veterans, pay parity with the bureaucracy, One Rank One Pension etc, in 2007.

The babus coolly stonewalled the issue and put it in cold storage! On 20 Apr 2012, a letter was written by the cabinet secretary saying that such a committee is not required!!!!! WTF is going on? Do these buggers even listen to the PM of the country? Nope!

See? The babus rule the country. Because our politicians are clueless, disinterested and busy politicking that they have no time for governance. They have outsourced it to our useless, corrupt and inefficient babus!

Any wonder then at the direction India is heading toward? It's South all the way!


Bhai,

1. Babus needs spanking and trashing and its the job of politicians should i draw a picture how much babus fear politicians like Mayawati, Indira Gandhi etc. Their words are babu's command and they do the work in no time.

2. Babus always fear a strong and visionary leader that's why we need a strong and visionary leader not a weak PM.

3. Do you know why babus don't move because manmohan singh is their old buddy and all of his life and now as PM he supports and promots babus and babus and more babus.

4. I don't know u know that or not Manmohan Singh is himself a former babu. He was a govt. servant all of his life and after retirement narsimha rao and sonia uses a babu as puppet to do their pet work. :angel:
 
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The Army needs to have its own Air wing specially with the Strike corps.LCH+Apache+A 10 would be a deadly combination considering the strengths of our enemy.Our stratergy in a war would be that the Strike Corps would go deep in enemy territroy capturing as much land as possible.Now the region where the Strike Corps would be deployed is mostly plain and the enemy has good number of tanks.

In order that our Armoured forces keep moving without much resistance we would need weapons like CBU 105 which we already have plus platforms like Apache,LCH and A 10s will ensure that we can move more at a faster pace with less resistance for our Armoured forces thus having less casualties.

A 10s are a must for Strike Corps..not a problem if the defensive Corps dont have them.Apaches and LCH would be enough to hold their own.

I believe the purpose of the Air Force is to ensure Air Superioirity and CAS role should be given to the Army Aviation wing.When the Airfoce can have its Special Forces then why cant the Army have its own mini Air Force.


Usaf.thunderbolt2.750pix.jpg

Great pic,but we don't need more logistical nightmare.Batches of armed LCHs and transport aircraft will have to do for now.
 
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Great pic,but we don't need more logistical nightmare.Batches of armed LCHs and transport aircraft will have to do for now.

Transport a/c..How? LCH cant do the damage this bird can moreover our Air Force is the biggest logistical nightmare anyone can have.
 
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I think Army aviation should have atleast 300-400 Mi17V5(troop transport), 50-60 Mi26(transferring M777, air defence guns etc.) and 80 Mi28/Apache (For armored regiment)....In addition to this for high altitude areas, the requirement of 116 LCH is good...but considering most of our troubled borders are located in high altitudes, 100 more LCH might be good addition.

Waaaay too high numbers and why on earth do we need so many Mi 28 / Apaches, when we get LCH and already induct Rudras? Apaches have certain advantages, but that makes them basically more facourable for special or command missions, while Rudra and LCH will be cheaper but as capable in the fire support and anti tank roles in higher numbers, but more cost-effective.

It is wrong to simply say move all helicopters to IA aviation, because their aim should only be transporting troops and supporting them. Therefor Mi 17s, Rudras and LCHs should be under their control, while the transport of equipment, or other heavier loads should remain under IAF control, be it with their fixed wing fleet, or with heavy lift helicopters, that also jointly will be used in disaster relief roles.
Similarly, I do think that IAF should have control over the Apaches (that most likely wins the competition), because in any offensive action with combat helicopters, maybe also jointly with other IAF fighters, these most capable combat helicopters would be the prime choice, while in IA they have mainly escort and protection roles, jointly with IA ground forces.

So one has to point out clearly, in which roles IA aviation would be better suited with Mi 17s and combat helicopters and in which roles IAF still remains the better choice. If that is done and we can fix the ego problems of the forces, we could change the doctrine, but MoD does not seem to get inbetween them and IAF clearly don't want to lose their edge here.

Wrt CAS, we don't need A10 like fighters anymore, because the future is unmanned! With armed fixed and rotary drones we don't need dedicated manned fighters in this role anymore, because they can stay longer above the battlefield, can carry good weapon loads too. The more capable unmanned aircrafts will be, the more roles will be taken over by them and IAF should get a higher focus on that, instead of adding another type of fighter.
 
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Waaaay too high numbers and why on earth do we need so many Mi 28 / Apaches, when we get LCH and already induct Rudras? Apaches have certain advantages, but that makes them basically more facourable for special or command missions, while Rudra and LCH will be cheaper but as capable in the fire support and anti tank roles in higher numbers, but more cost-effective.

It is wrong to simply say move all helicopters to IA aviation, because their aim should only be transporting troops and supporting them. Therefor Mi 17s, Rudras and LCHs should be under their control, while the transport of equipment, or other heavier loads should remain under IAF control, be it with their fixed wing fleet, or with heavy lift helicopters, that also jointly will be used in disaster relief roles.
Similarly, I do think that IAF should have control over the Apaches (that most likely wins the competition), because in any offensive action with combat helicopters, maybe also jointly with other IAF fighters, these most capable combat helicopters would be the prime choice, while in IA they have mainly escort and protection roles, jointly with IA ground forces.

So one has to point out clearly, in which roles IA aviation would be better suited with Mi 17s and combat helicopters and in which roles IAF still remains the better choice. If that is done and we can fix the ego problems of the forces, we could change the doctrine, but MoD does not seem to get inbetween them and IAF clearly don't want to lose their edge
Wrt CAS, we don't need A10 like fighters anymore, because the future is unmanned! With armed fixed and rotary drones we don't need dedicated manned fighters in this role anymore, because they can stay longer above the battlefield, can carry good weapon loads too. The more capable unmanned aircrafts will be, the more roles will be taken over by them and IAF should get a higher focus on that, instead of adding another type of fighter.
I think Indian order of Apache will definately rise up to 80+. If LCH is further delayed then 100+ is also possible.
(IA should get 30+30 for east and west and IAF should get 40) plus using them in mix formations with LCH/Mi/Druv will be more effective and efficient
 
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^^ probably that's why they upgraded A 10 to A 10 C
 
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