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Army Air Defence firing exercise in Sonmiani

Thats because the AH-64 and by extension all Western attack helos are not gunships in the manner of Russian models such as the Mi-24, -28 and Ka-50 are in battlespace application. Western AHs fulfill support roles as armed battlespace recon (scouts) and tank hunters whearas Russian AHs are designed to suppress OPFOR armour and infantry complementing friendly assets. In OP IF above the Apaches were used as the primary assault vehicle-talk about incorrect usage! The AH-64 in its current Block III incarnation is more inclined towards Russian application with improved applique shielding and improved Longbow radar for NLOS Hellfire targeting which should deal with nasty situations like above by conferring first sight first shot for the AH gunner.

Ofcourse, but all the same. Those Apaches were armoured and were overwhelmed by AA ground fire, my point was that AAs are not as obsolete as one might think. And forgive my ignorance but, whats OPFOR armour and infantry? It is a little suprising to me to hear that western gunships are not designed for direct combat...take the Cobras for instance. And I was pretty sure all Apache gunships had armoured cockpits.:undecided:
 
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its good air defence only long range is little short and on they HQ-9 and MBDA-SPADA 2000 will soon finish this lack also

Guys when are we getting the MBDA-SPADA 2000 ? any pic's thx
 
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Guys when are we getting the MBDA-SPADA 2000 ? any pic's thx



MBDA spada 2000

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MBDA Spada 2000 Air Defence System for Pakistan Air Force
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Pakistan Air Force has ordered number of MBDA Spada 2000 air defence system to to meet the requirements of its low to medium air defence system.

It is likely that these systems will replace the long aged French Crotale air defence systems in Pakistan Air Force which have served well for the protection of Pakistan Air Space from enemy's intrusion.

Componenets of MBDA Spada 2000 were displayed in International Defence Exhibition, IDEAS in 2006 which attracted the attention of Pakistan defence staff.

MBDA Spada 2000 has been evaluating ever since and was in hard competition with Raytheon SL-AMRAAM and German Diehl BGT IRIS-t SL air defence systems.

Click to Enlarge

The Spada 2000 is an all-weather, day and night, highly automated, air defence system which has quick reaction time and requires very few operators to man the system.
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Pakistan has more than adequate coverage for low level air defence due to large number of MANPADs available to the units Anza MK1, MK2, MK3 which Pakistan produces locally.

Former Air Chief Kaleem Sadaat did mention Pakistan Air Force interest in the Spada 2000 air defence system in the past, however it was up until now limited to it.

The Spada 2000 is an all-weather, day and night, highly automated, air defence system which has quick reaction time and requires very few operators to man the system. The system can engage up to 4 targets simultaneously, and has the track range of 60KM while it can intercept a target at 25KM accurately.

Background Information about SPADA 2000
(Courtesy: MBDA)

Operational requirement
A system capable of protecting of vital assets from air attacks conducted in a dense ECM and clutter environment, including precision guided munitions and tactical missiles.

The MBDA solution
SPADA 2000 is a unique all weather solution for that mission. Its design comprises the following:

1. modular, flexible and open architecture for dispersed deployment of constituent units

2. high tactical mobility and aero-transportability, through extensive use of ISO Standard modules and special built-in devices for lifting and levelling

3. fast deployment and set-to-operate, thanks to the embedded mission planning, digital map loading and processing, automatic navigation and automatic system initialisation

4. enhanced firing power and engagement envelope to counter simultaneous attacks of targets in close formation

5. capable of integrating and of tactically co-ordinating existing light anti-air weapons, such as guns.

MAIN FEATURES and ADVANTAGES
The basic SPADA 2000 configuration consists of a Detection Centre and of 2 Firing Sections (expandable to 4). Up to 10 light anti-air weapons can be managed by the system in addition to its Firing Sections.

The Detection Centre is composed of a 3D volumetric air surveillance radar having a TWS capability of up to 100 air tracks, within its 60 km range, and of an Operation Centre

The Firing Section is composed of a tracking and illumination radar with its control unit and of two Missile Launchers, with 6 ready-to-fire ASPIDE 2000 missiles each.

The tracking and Illumination radar has an effective range of 40 km, while the ASPIDE 2000 missile has an intercept envelope of over 20 km.

Status of programme
The system is in service in Spain and Italy.
 
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AA guns are no match for the 4th generation jet-figheters, Pakistan should replace them with home made SAMs i.e. if they have any.

Not entirely true. AAA does what low/med altitude SAMs do. It keeps the aircraft flying higher and unable to carry out Air to Surface strikes at low altitudes. So the only aircraft that can effectively get the job done are aircraft equipped with targeting pods (which is something that is not available widely to the South Asian Airforces at least). In the future this may change but AAA for now has a role to play.
 
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Ofcourse, but all the same. Those Apaches were armoured and were overwhelmed by AA ground fire, my point was that AAs are not as obsolete as one might think. And forgive my ignorance but, whats OPFOR armour and infantry? It is a little suprising to me to hear that western gunships are not designed for direct combat...take the Cobras for instance. And I was pretty sure all Apache gunships had armoured cockpits.:undecided:

OPFOR - Opposing Forces
 
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Ofcourse, but all the same. Those Apaches were armoured and were overwhelmed by AA ground fire, my point was that AAs are not as obsolete as one might think. And forgive my ignorance but, whats OPFOR armour and infantry? It is a little suprising to me to hear that western gunships are not designed for direct combat...take the Cobras for instance. And I was pretty sure all Apache gunships had armoured cockpits.:undecided:

Not overwhelmed-rather they made a frontal assault v entrenched AAA leading to changes in US aerial assualt doctrine. I agree with you on the role of AAA in dealing with helicopters and even for use as anti infantry weapons as the Russians have in Grozny.

OPFOR=opposing forces.

Western AHs feature greater ballistic resistance around the cockpit and vital fuel lines (as in around the centreline pylons for stores) designed to resist up to 14.5mm Soviet. Fits in with the old Cold War doctine of being tank hunters where other scout helos such as the OH-58 etc would designate targets and the AHs would act as the shooter with Hellfires and TOWs, both helos using terrain to 'pop up', shoot and duck down out of OPFOR AA LOS. Soviet helos on the other hand are uparmoured all round to about 23mm (numerous egs of Hinds withstanding 23mm in Afghan)in addition to the ability to transport a squad of infantry which has the effect of making them slower, less fuel efficient (more drag, less power/lift) but able to perform "flying tank" duties as per WARPAC doctrine.
 
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Not entirely true. AAA does what low/med altitude SAMs do. It keeps the aircraft flying higher and unable to carry out Air to Surface strikes at low altitudes. So the only aircraft that can effectively get the job done are aircraft equipped with targeting pods (which is something that is not available widely to the South Asian Airforces at least). In the future this may change but AAA for now has a role to play.

i thought the new F-16s will be equipped with the Sniper TPs and the upgrades ones willalso have this capability!
 
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Pakistan Targets Air Combat
Needs To Protect Air Defense, C2 Early in War
By wendell minnick
Published: 14 July 2008

TAIPEI - The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has not seen serious air combat since the 1965 and 1971 wars with India, but the ability to defeat a massive Indian assault on its air defenses early in a war remains its primary mission.

In 1965, Pakistan successfully trumped India in air combat, but it was ill-prepared for the 1971 conflict in which India dominated the skies. Fears of losing another war, much less a nuclear war, are unthinkable, and the PAF is modernizing its air interdiction, air surveillance and reconnaissance, command and control, and honing its air delivery skills for nuclear weapons.

Air interdiction is the PAF's primary mission, but it has not ignored retaliatory strike missions, said Haris Khan of the Pakdef Military Consortium. The PAF has expanded modernization efforts to include "nuclear weapons delivery, support of ground operations, fleet protection/maritime strike, and search and rescue are secondary," he said.

The PAF believes the Indian Air Force will launch a massive assault on Pakistan's air defense and command-and-control hubs during the first wave of a war, said A.B. Mahapatra, director of the New Delhi-based Centre for Asian Strategic Studies - India.

The Indian Air Force's primary mission is to neutralize Pakistan's nuclear option, he said.

"Thus, PAF is enhancing its air combat profile to encounter such future challenges," Mahapatra said.

The PAF's interdiction efforts include new and refurbished Lockheed Martin F-16s, now on order, and JF-17 Thunder fighters, built by Pakistan with Chinese assistance, now being manufactured.

In June 2006, the PAF ordered 18 F-16 C/D Block 52M fighters along with an option to procure another 18. A midlife upgrade will augment its existing fleet of 40 F-16 A/B Block 15s, along with buying 20 more F-16 A/B models via the Excessive Defense Articles program.

The F-16s will not be outfitted with nuclear weapons, but question marks remain for the JF-17. Known as the Chengdu J-10 Vigorous Dragon, the JF-17 will replace about 450 aging Nanchang A-5C Fantans, Dassault Mirage III/Vs and Chengdu F-7P Skybolts in the air-to-air combat and ground-support roles.

"The replacement will not be matched by an exact number, but initial reports indicate between 250 and 300 aircraft will be purchased by PAF," Khan said.

Khan said the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex is conducting flight evaluations of prototype aircraft "fitted with the Chinese-built NRIET KLJ-10 radar" and "Chinese-designed SD-10/PL-12 active-homing medium-range air-to-air missile."

The first 50 JF-17s will be outfitted with Chinese avionics, radar and missiles. But under an agreement with France in February, newer JF-17s will be outfitted with MBDA Mica air-to-air missiles and Thales RC 400 multimission radars.

The Russian-built RD-93 turbofan engine outfitting the JF-17 will have to be replaced due to pressure from India on Russia. Khan said the Chinese-built WS-13 Taishan engine is the most likely replacement.

There are unconfirmed reports, Khan said, that the PAF has ordered four aerial refueling tankers, possibly the Ukrainian-built Il-76.

Tentative UAV Plans

PAF also is improving its surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities.

"Pakistan uses UAVs for surveillance and is keen to augment the reconnaissance capabilities to a new height," with plans to procure up to 60 UAVs by 2010, Mahapatra said.

The Army has ordered the Luna short-range UAV from Germany and the Italian-built Galileo Falco UAV.

"An agreement was also signed in July of 2006 between the PAF and Turkey to jointly manufacture a UAV, which will meet the requirements of both air forces. The PAF UAV program is still in its adolescent stage, but they acknowledge the significance of the program for its future war plans," Khan said.

In April, the first of five Saab 2000 turboprop aircraft equipped with the Saab-Ericsson Erieye Airborne Early Warning & Command (AEW&C) system was rolled out during a ceremony in Sweden. Delivery to Pakistan is expected in mid-2009. Khan said there are discussions with China to co-develop an AEW&C aircraft designated as ZDK03 modeled on the Shaanxi Y-8F-400.

"PAF has mapped a very detailed and comprehensive plan for an early warning system to cover Pakistan's airspace with both airborne platforms and a ground-based radar network," he said.

Pakistan will integrate this plan with ground-based radar, including the U.S.-supplied AN/TPS-77 and Chinese-supplied JYL-1, JL3D-90A and JY-11 D air surveillance radars.

Khan points to other efforts, including a 2006 test of the Czech Vera passive radar system and an order for a number of MBDA Aspide/Spada 2000 low- to medium-altitude air defense batteries.

"These missiles are supposed to replace Thales Defence Systems Crotale. PAF is actively looking to purchase a high-altitude missile air defense system," with the Chinese-built FT-2000 as the front-runner, Khan said.

In the 1965 and 1971 wars with India, Pakistan successfully attacked ground targets, including high-value targets, within 200 miles of Pakistan's border.

Khan said in any future conflict with India, "I believe PAF will employ similar tactics," but with more intensity on high-value targets.

"PAF would, in the first instance, be tasked with countering India's planned advance into Pakistani territory by seeking to prevent the Indian Air Force from achieving local tactical air superiority," he said. "At the same time, it would be required to strike surface-to-surface missile launchers, if these can be identified. It would also be called upon to provide air cover for the strike corps in their limited advance to occupy Indian territory." ■
E-mail: wminnick@defensenews.com.

Pakistan Targets Air Combat - Defense News

A slightly old but relevant article about future plans of PAF.
 
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i thought the new F-16s will be equipped with the Sniper TPs and the upgrades ones willalso have this capability!

Sir,

You are right. Sniper XR pods have been ordered and will be used on both the new and the MLU aircraft.

However my point was simply to point out that the bulk of inventory at least currently does not have this capability. In the future, I think most will but until then and even beyond, AAA will continue to be a threat.
 
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A selam

Why Pakistan had buy Spada ? it have only 20 Km Range too engage the Target or not ?

can some plz explain ?

thx a lot
 
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AA still play vital role in low flying attack helicopter or low flying planes or missiles. Pakistan acquired latest radar guided AA guns from sweden and China is been producing these guns for long time. Also very effective in mountain areas, where any attacking flying plane need to come little close to target object.
 
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