ARMY-2015 starts in Moscow. Gen Raheel Sharif present with a strong delegation

[Tipu7]

I pray we see this in our inventory soon.

I know we are never ever going to get the t-14 Armata but one can dream cant he ?

perhaps Hinds. nothing else

 

[Zarvan]

perhaps Hinds. nothing else

New reports suggest both MI-35 and MI-28

 

[kaonalpha]

New reports suggest both MI-35 and MI-28

Hope another report comes about Mi 26T and T 15 and Urol MRAP and pantsir

 

[Donatello]

Well that was possible if we were extra smart,,, but at that time, Pakistan was a new state, the leadership was lacking and perhaps we thought the the world will be a fair place so didn't tried to play over smart
Anyway, I do agree that Pakistan alliance with Russia makes much more sense and believe me or not, the world map would have been different if that was the case, at least the world geo political situation would have been totally different.
Anyway, better late than never, still it is high time that we improve our trade and strategic relations with Russia, i am not asking to cut off ties with the west but lets play smart now and have good relations with both blocks. I hope this can be done and will be done in years to come (sooner now)

F-16 saga of 1980s and 1990s is how we shot ourselves in the foot, because we were too blind.....we learnt the hard way.

 

[IceCold]

I think that I have clearly stated that neither Russia or India are going to replace each other as its not zero sum game.

Mature countries don't throw a hissy fit everytime their allies transact with their opponents. I am yet to see any tantrums from Indian Govt regarding your dealings with Russian nor do i expect to see one.

India should be ok as long as economical and defense ties don't negatively effect India's conventional and non-conventional capabilities to deal with Pakistan. Anything Russians sell to Pakistan to help them better deal with terrorists and other malcontents operating within are in-fact most welcome.

Are you not contradicting your self? See both the highlighted parts. In one you say "Mature countries dont throw a hissy fit everytime their allies transact with their opponents" and than you say this

"India should be ok as long as economical and defense ties dont negatively effect India's conventional and non conventional capabilities to deal with Pakistan"

Well apparently India is either not ok at all or it isnt as mature as you might want to believe and is throwing hissy fits every now and than.

India wasnt happy about the RD-93 being sold to Pakistan and did try to block the deal but never the less Russians went ahead with the sale.

India isnt apparently happy about about the Mi-28 deal either and has shared its concerns with the Russians but Russians are still ok with the sale.

Point being that India is upset with her primary supplier of arms for warming up with its long time rival and lifting of arms embargo on Pakistan.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Exactly...but there is a difference between history and past mistakes.

No need to do matam about history by saying "past mistakes'

Commies hated Pakistani guts. They wanted to prop up leftists in Afghanistan and India to pressure and ultimately destroy Pakistan.

Tali do hathon say bajti hai.

Russia made lots of mistakes from 1940s to 1990s. No wonder the regime collapsed.

Now they have changed their stance, and Pakistan is responding positively.

 

[Spectre]

Are you not contradicting your self? See both the highlighted parts. In one you say "Mature countries dont throw a hissy fit everytime their allies transact with their opponents" and than you say this

"India should be ok as long as economical and defense ties dont negatively effect India's conventional and non conventional capabilities to deal with Pakistan"

Well apparently India is either not ok at all or it isnt as mature as you might want to believe and is throwing hissy fits every now and than.

India wasnt happy about the RD-93 being sold to Pakistan and did try to block the deal but never the less Russians went ahead with the sale.

India isnt apparently happy about about the Mi-28 deal either and has shared its concerns with the Russians but Russians are still ok with the sale.

Point being that India is upset with her primary supplier of arms for warming up with its long time rival and lifting of arms embargo on Pakistan.

Any country would be concerned if their allies supply their opponents some tech or hardware which could alter the status quo or strategic balance. How would you feel if China sells us their J-31 or J-20 jets or their latest missiles? Non strategic purchases shouldn't make a difference like gunships or last gen engines.

I would be grateful if you could show me an official response by MEA or MoD spokesmen expressing concerns over Russian sale of Mi-28 to Pak. Please spare me the blogs or unverified quotes from so called analysts.

Thanks

 

[Imran Khan]

I pray we see this in our inventory soon.

I know we are never ever going to get the t-14 Armata but one can dream cant he ?

bhai its mean we are gonna purchase whole russian army ?

 

[xyxmt]

Bhai Jaan,

Please khuda ka khauf karo. yeh kiya style hai

"fell in the lap" smacks of utter disregard of the situation of that time.

Sorry to see.

thats how we talk in our daily life dont we?
dont we hear our "leadership" saying on national TV "wo us ke thaly lug gya hay" aur "us ne us ki le li"

 

[araz]

Bhai Jaan,

Please khuda ka khauf karo. yeh kiya style hai

"fell in the lap" smacks of utter disregard of the situation of that time.

Sorry to see.

I think the Liaquat Ali Khan incident was the beginning of our affair with the West. We should have given priority to a tour already planned and told the US to wait. This would have been alright but we went diving into US only to find that the price required for the goodies offered was not worth the visit and not only did Liaquat Ali Khan lose the opportunity but also his life in the bargain. Once the army usurped the crown it was a lot more easier for the West and US to croon to Pakistan and make it forget all chances of staying non aligned. Whether the other way would have been any better is not something I can conjecture about but the principle is you don't annoy the local boss to establish friendship with the boss of the different neighbourhood. By Zia's time things had gone too far and Pakistan would have had serious issues with its autonomy if the Russian plan to usurp Afghanistan had worked. Even now we need to have a balanced relationship with all parties which is something that the army has finally taken on board.
Araz

 

[Arsalan]

F-16 saga of 1980s and 1990s is how we shot ourselves in the foot, because we were too blind.....we learnt the hard way.

I hope you are right...... that we learned!!

 

[OrionHunter]

I know we are never ever going to get the t-14 Armata but one can dream cant he ?

You will! Wait till the Chinese procure it first from Russia, then you will get it from China. Like the JFs, they will give you two for the price of one!

It's just a matter of time!

 

[Jaanbaz]

strange comment.

West gives us stuff as part of their strategic interests since 1947.
For most of our existence and until the demise of Communist Russia, we are kicked in the back by commies.

Naturally we had to ally with the West.

Please remember history.

Lol only because we decided to side with the Ahle Kitab(Christains) against Atheists(Russia). Seriously Who the f*** draws up our foreign policy?

 

[FaujHistorian]

I think the Liaquat Ali Khan incident was the beginning of our affair with the West. We should have given priority to a tour already planned and told the US to wait. This would have been alright but we went diving into US only to find that the price required for the goodies offered was not worth the visit and not only did Liaquat Ali Khan lose the opportunity but also his life in the bargain. Once the army usurped the crown it was a lot more easier for the West and US to croon to Pakistan and make it forget all chances of staying non aligned. Whether the other way would have been any better is not something I can conjecture about but the principle is you don't annoy the local boss to establish friendship with the boss of the different neighbourhood. By Zia's time things had gone too far and Pakistan would have had serious issues with its autonomy if the Russian plan to usurp Afghanistan had worked. Even now we need to have a balanced relationship with all parties which is something that the army has finally taken on board.
Araz

Araz Bhai

LAK wan't alone (and not dumb either) in making these decisions.

What most of our leftie thinkers ignore that Pakistan in general and Punjab+KPK in particular were tuned into the great game from 1830s.

The whole Russian philosophy was anti Punjab+KPK for a long long long time.

Blaming LAK is simply ignoring our history and especially Russian history's part that dealt with our region.

It is time we get out of conspiracy theories.

Thanks.

Lol only because we decided to side with the Ahle Kitab(Christains) against Atheists(Russia). Seriously Who the f*** draws up our foreign policy?

God vs. Commies was just one of the many slogans.

it wasn't used by Pakistanis only.

I think you are short changing yourself with your line of reasoning.

 

[IceCold]

Any country would be concerned if their allies supply their opponents some tech or hardware which could alter the status quo or strategic balance. How would you feel if China sells us their J-31 or J-20 jets or their latest missiles? Non strategic purchases shouldn't make a difference like gunships or last gen engines.

I would be grateful if you could show me an official response by MEA or MoD spokesmen expressing concerns over Russian sale of Mi-28 to Pak. Please spare me the blogs or unverified quotes from so called analysts.

Thanks

But than again India has shown concerns over the same. Its not like Pakistan is going for PAKFA or Akula.

No blog but from Janes.

India unhappy at Russia's Mi-35 sale to Pakistan - IHS Jane's 360

If janes is not good enough perhaps an Indian source

Delhi winces as Russia plans to sell Mi-35s to Pakistan | Daily Mail Online

I dont think i need to show a source over RD-93 fiasco as its well documented here. You can search.