Arming India

[Major Shaitan Singh]

An earlier picture of the INS Sindhukirti, the 'Dry Dock Queen' stripped and rusted at HSL

NEW DELHI: This is the biggest news coming out of the government-owned Hindustan Shipyard Limited (HSL) in a very long time. The Kilo class submarine, INS Sindhukirti, has been undocked after over eight years in dry dock for repair and refit. This earned this Kilo-class submarine the mocking sobriquet of the ‘Dry Dock Queen', and HSL an unenviable reputation.

INS Sindhukirti was finally floated on Nov. 4 , 2014. The shipyard still has to work on the submarine's water-tight integrity and finish the equipment refit before it hits sea trials. The Navy reckons that the process will take at least another year before the submarine is back in service. This means that the INS Sindhukirti would have been in one single refit for an astounding 10 years before becoming operational again, marking the longest dry docking of any Indian in-service naval vessel.

The Navy has budgeted close to Rs.800 crore (Rs.8 billion/$130 million) for this mid-life refit involving repair of the outer hull and replacement of sonars, sensors, machinery, operations and fire control systems.

The Russians have taken between 24 and 28 months for similar mid-life refits on six other Indian Navy Kilo class submarines at approximately the same cost. The Russian yard is reported to have deployed a 200-strong workforce round-the-clock to deliver the upgrades in these time frames. HSL's output was, obviously, glacial.

HSL has not produced any warship. The only other time it took on a major military refit project was for the long decommissioned Foxtrot class submarines. Incidentally, that refit was delayed too. It was given the Sindhukirti refit contract with the stated objective of developing indigenous capability. The Navy was not too happy that an important project was handed to an out-of-work public sector shipyard to keep it going. The Navy was unhappy with patronage for public sector getting precedence over operational availability of a frontline submarine for a decade.

At the moment, HSL is making Bollard Pull Tugs and Inshore Patrol Vessels, besides working on the Sindhukirti. It has declared the value of its production as Rs.104.88 crore (Rs. 1.05 billion/$17 million) for the current fiscal (April-September). Value of production for previous years has been declared as Rs 564.04 crore (Rs 5.65 billion/$92 million), Rs.483.84 crore (Rs.4.84 billion/$79 million) and Rs.453.40 crore (Rs.4.54 billion/$74 million) for the years 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 respectively.

The Indian Navy's submarine force levels are in free fall due to obsolescence and accidents. It needs at least 18 conventional submarines. Not a single new conventional submarine has been added to the fleet in the last 15 years.

At the moment, the Indian Navy is down to eight Kilos (INS Sindhurakshak was lost in an internal explosion on Aug. 14, 2013), four HDWs, and a solitary Akula-class SSN on lease from Russia.

A recent report of the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) disclosed that the operational availability of submarines is down to fewer than 50 per cent due to ageing and the proportional increase in time for repairs and refit.

The scheduled phase-out of the Kilo class submarines beginning 2015 makes the picture look even more desperate. It's that of a depleted, ageing fleet tripping from one life extension to another.

In his annual press conference on Dec 3, 2014, Indian Navy chief R.K. Dhowan appeared to suggest that there would be no further delay on the Scorpenes, the first of which would be handed over in September 2016. Six Scorpenes are on order with the Mumbai-based Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL) with assistance rendered by French DCNS.

The Project 75 (I) tender (RFP in defense parlance) for the second line of the post-Scorpene submarines is still some distance away, as the defense establishment will take its time evaluating the capability of Indian shipyards for the ‘Buy and Make' (Indian) venture under the Defense Procurement Procedure. The grapevine has it that the Navy leadership's preference for the German alternative will have to stand the test of stretched timelines.

Arming India

 

[axisofevil]

The Russians have taken between 24 and 28 months for similar mid-life refits on six other Indian Navy Kilo class submarines at approximately the same cost. The Russian yard is reported to have deployed a 200-strong workforce round-the-clock to deliver the upgrades in these time frames. HSL's output was, obviously, glacial.



I pointed this out yrs ago, how other countries incorporate using a workforce that works 24-7. Indian defence does not do that to my knowledge for any critical projects. How the f-k can we compete if we cannot even think

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

The Russians have taken between 24 and 28 months for similar mid-life refits on six other Indian Navy Kilo class submarines at approximately the same cost. The Russian yard is reported to have deployed a 200-strong workforce round-the-clock to deliver the upgrades in these time frames. HSL's output was, obviously, glacial.



I pointed this out yrs ago, how other countries incorporate using a workforce that works 24-7. Indian defence does not do that to my knowledge for any critical projects. How the f-k can we compete if we cannot even think

when you don't know the inside knowledge ... then don't comment......

Moreover , most of the Indian people also don't understand what this Submarine has gone through ..... and what purpose it was ripped open for..

Do Indians work on 10-min shift？

Some people don't have knowledge of the whole project....

 

[axisofevil]

when you don't know the inside knowledge ... then don't comment......

Moreover , most of the Indian people also don't understand what this Submarine has gone through ..... and what purpose it was ripped open for..


Some people don't have knowledge of the whole project....

There is no 24-7 workforce that is employed in any defence sector in India. Do you know differently? I stand by my statement!


The article itself states Russia can do it quicker. Much quicker. We are refitting a 30yr sub! Sounds pretty damn smart. We allowed our subs to hit a critical low point when our Navy brass has been telling us this issue for DECADES>

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

There is no 24-7 workforce that is employed in any defence sector in India. Do you know differently? I stand by my statement!


The article itself states Russia can do it quicker. Much quicker. We are refitting a 30yr sub! Sounds pretty damn smart. We allowed our subs to hit a critical low point when our Navy brass has been telling us this issue for DECADES>

Problem is you people don't know the whole thing and you jumped into conclusion:-

A) Their is Suspect that " the mentioned SUB was Striped and used as RAT Lab for Nuclear SUB"

B) the Work done on SUB almost made it New.
The Sub was Dual Hull Sub and not Single Hull which PAK uses.

India is not rules by Military, But don't worry , india has plans :-

a) 2 Nuke Sub
2) 1 Nuke Sub leasing again from Russia
3) 3 Nuke Sub unde construction by 2020
6) 6 Sub under construction will be starting from 18 -20


BTW 2 nuke sub made the shortfall already...

Broadsword: Did Russia delay submarine overhaul to undermine Indian shipyard?

 

[axisofevil]

Problem is you people don't know the whole thing and you jumped into conclusion:-

A) Their is Suspect that " the mentioned SUB was Striped and used as RAT Lab for Nuclear SUB"

B) the Work done on SUB almost made it New.
The Sub was Dual Hull Sub and not Single Hull which PAK uses.

India is not rules by Military, But don't worry , india has plans :-

a) 2 Nuke Sub
2) 1 Nuke Sub leasing again from Russia
3) 3 Nuke Sub unde construction by 2020
6) 6 Sub under construction will be starting from 18 -20


BTW 2 nuke sub made the shortfall already...

View attachment 176845


Broadsword: Did Russia delay submarine overhaul to undermine Indian shipyard?

That's fine bro but my main point is that we do not operate a 24-7 work force which should be utilized especially for research purposes. It not only cuts down on the timeline to get equipment, it will aid in quicker testing.


We lost decades in maintaining our sub forces to adequate levels. This you cannot spin nor deny.

 

[Echo_419]

Do Indians work on 10-min shift？

That is in some shitty public sector orgs only in private orgs people work like there is no tommorrow but some public sector orgs do good work to like ISRO

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

That's fine bro but my main point is that we do not operate a 24-7 work force which should be utilized especially for research purposes. It not only cuts down on the timeline to get equipment, it will aid in quicker testing.


We lost decades in maintaining our sub forces to adequate levels. This you cannot spin nor deny.

we do not do work for 27x7 to achieve result , the and if you see India still has same level of SUB ..... this Sub has been repaired ( just like new)

If you see Chinese how long Chinese take to refurbished the AC? If they work 24x7 in 10 years to refurbished a AC , India made AC by working 12x5 days and still in less years.

So working 24x7 is not means you achieve your target / quality.

 

[axisofevil]

we do not do work for 27x7 to achieve result , the and if you see India still has same level of SUB ..... this Sub has been repaired ( just like new)

If you see Chinese how long Chinese take to refurbished the AC? If they work 24x7 in 10 years to refurbished a AC , India made AC by working 12x5 days and still in less years.

So working 24x7 is not means you achieve your target / quality.

Comparing the Chinese to India doesn't make sense. China has no experience building ACs. It's their first AC. You missed the point when you think working 24-7 has something to do with achieving quality. The issue is building platforms quickly. It is what China is known for. It allows you to build mulitple research platforms and test accordingly. If we take a notch or two above like China, you can quickly adapt prototypes after learning previous mistakes. This allows for quicker testing, compressing timeline, and bringing out a product quicker. You are bringing a design from drawing to testing muliple prototypes quicker than ever before.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Comparing the Chinese to India doesn't make sense. China has no experience building ACs. It's their first AC. You missed the point when you think working 24-7 has something to do with achieving quality. The issue is building platforms quickly. It is what China is known for. It allows you to build mulitple research platforms and test accordingly. If we take a notch or two above like China, you can quickly adapt prototypes after learning previous mistakes. This allows for quicker testing, compressing timeline, and bringing out a product quicker. You are bringing a design from drawing to testing muliple prototypes quicker than ever before.

A) If you have read this is first submarine also they are doing.
B) they made whole new sub , check the work done

talking , they only refurbishing the AC , India also don't have exp. of building AC but its building from scratch and still faster then refurbished one.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Theres whole a thread exist in the forum relating to same saga. Maybe it might worth taking a look.