Arjun News & Discussions

[Logic note]

Its a big game of perception , DRDO or any Indian research establishment has to counter this perception of "west is the best" .

The 14th report of the Balasaheb Vikhe Patil-headed parliamentary standing committee on defence has vindicated THE WEEK's reports (Feb. 19, 2006 and February 18, 2007) that the services are as much to blame for Defence Research and Development Organisation's project delay. The committee has noted that many of DRDO's difficulties are caused by the changing of the qualitative requirements (QR) by the services midstream, and the long and extended trials by them. Said a DRDO scientist to THE WEEK: "When it comes to imported systems, the services are willing to dilute their QR if the supplier can bring down the price. Why can't they extend the same concession to systems developed by our own scientists?"

The committee, too, has criticised the services' phoren craze. "...indigenously developed product is subjected to prolonged and exhaustive trial and evaluation, whereas imported products are not subjected to the same evaluation, but are readily accepted...," it noted.

 

[Logic note]

DRDO products compared to Israeli products .

the Barak had a 50% rate of failure since tests conducted between 1994- or 1996-2000 as per a note sent by the then Scientific advisor, Dr. Kalam to the defence ministry. Even after purchasing the Barak, the Navy has admitted to 2 failures in its own tests (one of which was witnessed by PM Dr. Manmohan Singh). Now, in contrast during the period of 2003-2006 the Trishul has had exactly 14 successful tests out of 20, but still the IAF/Navy refused to accept it.

 

[BATMAN]

Army re-evaluating battle tank Arjun
Gulf Times – Qatar’s top-selling English daily newspaper - India

“We are currently re-evaluating the Arjun but will have to wait for the summer trials (in May-June) to find out if the defects we had pointed out have truly been rectified,” a senior army officer said.

AGAIN?

 

[KENT]

Army re-evaluating battle tank Arjun
Gulf Times – Qatar’s top-selling English daily newspaper - India



AGAIN?

Yes chap it is again! afterall it is Indian Army who will going to used it.

 

[ejaz007]

Instead of reevaluating Arjun wouldn't it be better to design another tank. The experience gained from Arjun could be useful.

 

[KENT]

Instead of reevaluating Arjun wouldn't it be better to design another tank. The experience gained from Arjun could be useful.

It would be much better to learn how to walk before trying to run.

Unless and until in a particuler project, you don't endure the period of facing technical glitches as well dedicating competence in solving those technical glitches, you can't become versatile and hardcore in terms of experience of building challenging engineering marvels. This is exactly what India is doing right now with Arjun.

DRDO has already embarked upon design all new MBT apart from Arjun like MBT Karna as well as Arjun Mk-II.

 

[ak56]

It would be much better to learn how to walk before trying to run.

Unless and until in a particuler project, you don't endure the period of facing technical glitches as well dedicating competence in solving those technical glitches, you can't become versatile and hardcore in terms of experience of building challenging engineering marvels. This is exactly what India is doing right now with Arjun.

DRDO has already embarked upon design all new MBT apart from Arjun like MBT Karna as well as Arjun Mk-II.

Arjun or Karna- both will be destroyed by our superior Al-Khalids in a real war scenario. Then guys like you will shut up their bloody mouths.

 

[BATMAN]

DRDO has already embarked upon design all new MBT apart from Arjun like MBT Karna as well as Arjun Mk-II.

Very impressive!
I knew only one Arjun, can you tell us more about those new projects?
Will those be indigenous attempts as before? What are the allocated budgets? Difference in specifications?

 

[Titanium]

Developers of MBT for the last 30 years and producing T-72 for how long....and a so-called software prowess to boot......is looking for FCS:
March 17, 2008

India Requests Proposals for Tank Fire-Control Systems

By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI

NEW DELHI — The Indian Army in mid-February asked industry for proposals as it prepares to buy 1,000 thermal-imaging fire-control systems for its T-72 tanks.

A request for bids is expected later this year, as the need is urgent, one Indian Army official said. Army officials want the vendors — Sagem and Thales, France; Elbit, Israel; Bumar, Poland; and Rosoboronexport, Russia — to supply various kinds of information about their products, including physical, operational and maintenance characteristics, such as weight and gun elevation, azimuth and positioning.

Other questions are: Does the gunner sight have a stabilized head mirror, thermal sight, day optical channel, laser rangefinder? Is the sight independently physically stabilized in both planes? What is accuracy of sight in milliradians? What is the operative range of the infrared spectrum of the thermal imager camera?

The officials also want to know how the systems work when their computers fail: How do operators manually zero the readings, find the range and target speed, adjust for variation in muzzle velocity, and more?

The purchase will be part of India’s more-than-$1 billion effort to upgrade its 1,200 operational T-72 M1s, which were purchased from the former Soviet Union or produced in India under license. Other planned improvements include night-fighting systems, nuclear-biological-chemical protection, radios, fire-detectionand-suppression gear, gyros and laser-warning systems.

The Army must also buy foreign tanks in the next five to seven years to shore up its dwindling inventory, a senior Indian Defence Ministry official said.

In December, Army officials confirmed a $1.2 billion-plus order for 347 T-90 tanks from Russia. India already owns 310 T-90s. The Army will retire about onethird of its 3,000 total tanks by 2009 or 2010: Vijayantas, T-55s and about 400 older T-72s.

 

[baqai]

i have seen people both from our (Pakistan) and Indian side going for each other throats when it comes to jf-17 or LCA or Argun or any other product which respective country is trying to develop.

If we step out of our typical "we are enemies" mind frame than we have to accept the fact that both the countries regardless of success or failure of the project will end up having valuable and precious EXPERIENCE which unfortunately none of the western nations were willing to share with us.

So Arjun or LCA might be failure today and being Pakistani that doesn't really give me a very big grin, the experience Indians will gain from their attempts which will be utilized to further develop any other projects however is something which will worry me

just my 2 cents other might differ from my POV

 

[blain2]

Valid point Baqai!

 

[IceCold]

i have seen people both from our (Pakistan) and Indian side going for each other throats when it comes to jf-17 or LCA or Argun or any other product which respective country is trying to develop.

If we step out of our typical "we are enemies" mind frame than we have to accept the fact that both the countries regardless of success or failure of the project will end up having valuable and precious EXPERIENCE which unfortunately none of the western nations were willing to share with us.

So Arjun or LCA might be failure today and being Pakistani that doesn't really give me a very big grin, the experience Indians will gain from their attempts which will be utilized to further develop any other projects however is something which will worry me

just my 2 cents other might differ from my POV

Indeed the experience gained by the indians will be very valuable for their future indegious projects however the same scenario cannot be hold true for pakistan. The reason is we being a small nation with a small budget cannot simply afford to reinvent the wheel when it has already been invented and can be easily found in the market. What we can do however is that we can buy the wheel and make it better to suit our needs. So just because indians will be able to develop something entirely on their own doesnt make me loose my sleep.

 

[Titanium]

So Arjun or LCA might be failure today and being Pakistani that doesn't really give me a very big grin, the experience Indians will gain from their attempts which will be utilized to further develop any other projects however is something which will worry me

just my 2 cents other might differ from my POV

Not with the current set of People, you know who am mentioning. DRDO could have got so much from building mig-21, Mig-27, jaguar etcc..but is it any helpfull??

Same with tanks........India has a history of building both british as well as soviet....... still FCS tender is called for upgradation, from guess who.......poland!!! which is also a licence builder of T-72 just like India.

 

[JEFF]

Indeed the experience gained by the indians will be very valuable for their future indegious projects however the same scenario cannot be hold true for pakistan. The reason is we being a small nation with a small budget cannot simply afford to reinvent the wheel when it has already been invented and can be easily found in the market. What we can do however is that we can buy the wheel and make it better to suit our needs. So just because indians will be able to develop something entirely on their own doesnt make me loose my sleep.

The theory of indigenous production is that it not only make country self relient but also it helps to save its precious foriegn exchange and that is exactly what happening with India and on top of that they have also introduces the offset clause. On the face of it, having a self reliant means that it will also attract foreign especially western firm to collabratation with us as they come to know the caliber of ours in manufacturing of weapons.

Regarding your point of purchases of weapon from outside and then refurbish it to suit the needs have their own disadvantages as well. As Pakistan can't no longer afford to import the weapon from outside as considering its slow economic growth and precious foriegn exchange reserves. And hence it becomes impertive for pakistan to built on by own rather then depending upon others theyby making itself hostage to other countries.

 

[JEFF]

Not with the current set of People, you know who am mentioning. DRDO could have got so much from building mig-21, Mig-27, jaguar etcc..but is it any helpfull??

But you also have to take into account Buidling of Mig-21, Mig-27 and Jaguar was liceance production and on the top of it they were roughly from the catagory of 2nd and 3rd generation fighter planes, whereas what India is developing is 4th generation fighter plane which it never even liceance produced and hence delays are out to crop up. As well as the technolgical gadets that have been fitted with Mig-21, Mig-27 and Jaguar are no where nearer to what Indin is developing with Tejas. On the face of it India has already successfully manage to produce 2nd generation fighter plane in the form of Marut.

Same with tanks........India has a history of building both british as well as soviet....... still FCS tender is called for upgradation, from guess who.......poland!!! which is also a licence builder of T-72 just like India.

History of developing tanks but you also have to elabroate what kind of Tanks Indian were manufacturing. Theory that I have elobrated above about differnce between 2nd & 3rd generation fighter plane and 4th generation fighter and their buidling is also applicable in case of Tank Development especially when country have the history of liceance production of Tanks.