Arjun News & Discussions

[Interceptor]

the device does not uses copper fluid but cold water which is formed by the small system, it took 7 years to develope it, check the salient features, it uses solid state systems, it does not liberates any CFC, most importantly it consumes around 400 W power and produces around 360 W power, the efficiency is what was needed which a full fledged AC cannot give.

Cant comment on that because I dont know the internal max watt consumption, however, if you report that to be efficient as you claim then it is excellent.

Arjun uses APU, a Auxillary power unit which provides Arjun with the capability to stay silent while in ready mode and can fire anytime (silent attack mode) , I think this thing gets its power off the APU.

Right that is smart invention to use for that case which I understand now.

There is no fluid, it is cold water check it again.
The system ofcourse has sensors which will work just like ac, i.e. keep the temperature constant aorund 22 to 25 degrees.

My mistake, because I built something very similar to that and it was for a project, and I just miss read that part, in that case the system is safe and able system to be applied to the Indian tanks which is what the system was built for I believe it was to be inducted to all of the tanks in the Indian army?

 

[zraver]

Bantam,

Would these 70+ includes rail carriers too? Did you fortified the rail tracks all over India to bear 60tons?

trains way thousands of tons with indivual cars often exceeding 120 tons, they rails do not nee d-reinforcement

arjun's fate is still not clear and IA already finished producing special carriers!!!!

low boy style tank transport trailers are not very complex or expensive plus India is buddy buddy with israel who uses tanks in the Arjuns weight range, what exaclty is your point?

 

[joey]

Traverse of turret = 360
Some more on ARJUN:

Traverse rate = 45 degree per second

Elevation (+/-) = -10 and +20

Fording Ability

* Unprepared, at full speed = 1.45m
* Prepared fording (shallow fording) = 2.15m
* Snorkel = 5m



-- Angle Position Indicator

DRDO has developed the complete module including the miniature gear box and the necessary mechanical interface required to mount the resolver. The necessary electronics to process the signal for sensing the angular position to an accuracy of +2 milli radian has been developed. Currently, this unit is being used in the tank for sensing turret position.

-- Hydropneumatic Suspension system

An extremely effective hydropneumatic suspension system has been developed for MBT Arjun. The suspension is externally mounted and provides vehicle springing and damping. It consists of one bogey wheel pair for each suspension station. Gaseous medium in the hydropneumatic suspension is for all terrain maneuverability for exploiting the power available. Casing and hub of the hydropneumatic suspension are sealed for preventing dust ingression and water seepage into the casing during operation in marshy area or shallow/medium fording.

-- Touch-Screen Computers & Expert System

The integrated electrolumine- scent touch-screen display controller developed by DRDO provides excellent soldier/machine interface through appealing graphics and touch buttons. It integrates a number of sub-systems via multiple page set-up display diagnostic information through expert system software programmed in the touch-screen dashboard and consumes less power. In addition, an extensive database of a number of sub-systems of MBT can be accessed by the commander and driver through the touch of a button. This system can also be used for civilian applications.

-- Rotary Base Junction

Rotary base junctions (RBJs) are intended to be used in AFVs for transfer and distribution of power and control signals from their stationary chassis (like the hull of a tank) to the revolving structure turret of the tank. Therefore, RBJs are required to be very highly reliable and should withstand varying environmental conditions like very high and low temperatures, dust, varying levels of shocks, bumps and vibrations. The RBJs developed indigenously for MBT Arjun weigh approximately 30 kg and provide uninterrupted supply to the turret up to 600 A of load current with a minimal voltage drop.

-- Chassis & Automotive Systems (CAS)

Chassis and Automative System of MBT Arjun comprises main chassis, power pack (1400 HP engine coupled to hydromech transmission), running gear with hydropneumatic suspension, integrated fuel system, advanced electrical system and other dedicated special systems like integrated fire detection and suppression system. The chassis is fabricated from rolled homogenous armour plate using advanced welding technique. Frontal armour is of Kanchan composite sandwitched between armour plates. This fully integrated Arjun chassis and Automative System having smooth riding characteristics can be used as a mobile platform for any advanced weapon system.

-- Ballistic Louvers

Ballistic louvers are used in the hull structure of tank. These are configured to give protection against small arms fire and splinters and to provide adequate passage for coolant air to cool the 1500 HP power pack. These louvers are made out of alloy steel. Indigenous source for manufacturing these louvers using special extrusion technique has now been established.

-- Track

Track is required to keep the traction of the vehicle unaffected while the vehicle is mobile even in cross-country terrain operation. The MBT Arjun is fitted with double-pin steel track with detachable rubber pads. It is made out of steel casting having two bores for insertion of rubberised pins. It is an integral piece incorporating guide horns and has got a provision for insertion of detachable pads. The end connectors are induction-hardened in the area which comes in contact with the sprocket teeth to prevent wear.

-- Integrated Fire Suppression System for MBT Arjun

The integrated fire and explosion suppression system developed for MBT Arjun is based on state-of-the-art technology. The indigenous development of this system is considered to be a breakthrough in the field of fire protection engineering. It is capable of suppressing hydrocarbon fuel fire/explosion resulting from an enemy hit on the tank or due to any malfunctioning of the engine, transmission or any electrical short circuiting.

The system is based on infra-red detectors for the detection of fire/explosion in the crew compartment of the battle tank and a continuous type of linear thermal detector popularly known as fire-wire

for the engine compartment. Halon-1301 has been employed as a fire extinguishing medium. The system is capable of detection and suppression of hydrocarbon fuel fire/explosion in the crew compartment within 200 milliseconds and in the engine compartment within 15 s thereby enhancing the chances of survivability of the crew and battle effectiveness of the tank.

-- Recoil System

The Arjun recoil system is a compact, lightweight, short recoil hydro-spring type, capable Arjun recoil systemof absorbing the thrust of high pressure and high velocity gun. The system consists of two hydro-spring buffers mounted diagonally to meet the stringent space requirement inside the fighting compartment. The innovative design of taper control rod gives uniform recoil and run-out, thereby enhancing the accuracy and life of the system and the high rate of fire. The high pressure and durable packing rings coupled with high surface-finish of mating components ensure longer life and high reliability. This is a sealed system, which requires practically no maintenance.

-- Gamma Flash Sensor

Gamma Flash Sensor is a solid-state detector-based nuclear sensor used to sense the Gamma Flash Sensornuclear explosion and provide an, electrical output that activates nuclear protection system of the tank. It meets all JSS 55555-L3 test series specifications.
(-- Flash Sensor:
This sensor gives the first signature of a nuclear detonation and activates the automatic NBC system of the tanks. The equipment can be mounted in tracked vehicles and can be connected to the other control units through multicore cable of convenient length.

-- Roentgenometer RMI 102
This vehicle-mounted instrument measures the gamma radiation level at a place due to a nuclear fallout or leakage in a nuclear reactor installation

The above two indigenous products have been approved for use in MBT Arjun and T-72 tanks and have replaced imported systems fitted till now in these tanks thus saving valuable foreign exchange. These are under production through trade. )

-- Filter Elements for MBT Arjun Gun Control System

Three types of filter elements for gun control system of MBT Arjun have been designed and developed. These filters ensure efficient operation of servo actuators in the MBT gun control system. The filter elements have been fabricated with fibreglass media and stainless steel wiremesh for higher collapse rating.

 

[BATMAN]

Arjun facts and remarks it earned after every field trials, ever conducted by IA.
Naturally, all this past history tend us not to believe any claims before any trials or credible certification of its features.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/16589.html

The Arjun tank has no future. It still cannot fire straight. The T-90, a far superior tank, can kill the Arjun. We would not cross any border with these tanks.
Strong words, from Brigadier D K Babbar, the Army’s pointsman for the Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun project at the Mechanised Forces directorate.....
According to the Army’s latest trials, the decade-old problem of overheating persists. Two of the tank’s main subsystems, the fire control system (FCS) and integrated gunner’s main sight, which includes a thermal imager and laser range-finder, are rendered erratic and useless by the Arjun’s abnormally high peak internal temperature, which moves well beyond 55 degrees Celsius. This is in testimony to the Parliamentary committee.....
trials in summer 1997, which were criticized in a 1998 CAG report for a series of malfunctions, transmission failures and overheating.....
Pak Al-Khalid tank was productionised and had begun inductions. When contacted, Roy Choudhary said: “I was a strong proponent of the Arjun tank but its performance was disappointing.” .....
On October 12, Minister of State for Defence Production Rao Inderjit Singh told The Indian Express that it was decided — after the recent trials — that the production-series tanks will be stripped of their indigenous tracks and will have imported ones. So will the first few tanks that roll out of the Heavy Vehicles Factory outside Chennai. In other words, after three decades of research, Main Battle Tank Arjun cannot stand on its own “indigenous” feet....

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/arjun.htm

The automotive trials of two prototypes carried out by Army during 1988-89 revealed major deficiencies. The Army, therefore, on 26 July 1989 wanted these deficiencies to be sorted out before commencement of production of pre-production series (PPS). However, on 31 July 1989 Ministry decided to place orders for the production of PPS tanks. Two fully integrated prototypes were given to the Army for full fledged evaluation only in March 1990 after the commencement of production of PPS tanks. The evaluation trials of the prototypes also revealed major deficiencies. Subsequent trials were conducted on PPS tanks. Till July 1997, 15 pre-production series tanks which were subjected to extensive user and troop trials failed to meet fully even the bottom line parameters of the user.

http://www.india-today.com/itoday/24111997/defence.html

As for Arjun, "it is a tank with potential," says a senior armoured corps officer, "but it is far from a world-class tank". Arjun is typical of how the DRDO built up plenty of hype but failed to deliver, both in terms of performance and time schedules.....
the engine available is a 1400 hp German diesel, which is not powerful enough, especially in summer when high temperature reduces its performance. Most disturbing are continuing doubts about the accuracy of its gun, which, strangely enough, is more accurate when it fires on the move, rather than when it's standing still. ???????????

Apparently the poorest element of the tank being its Fire Control System and its shooting accuracy.
Not suitable for hot climates i.e. deserts.
Low power to weight ratio makes it less agile too.
Very old design and I expect it to be out matched by new rival tanks, comming out in a decade or so.
Due to above grave issues associated, I also expect it to be inducted in limited numbers by IA.

 

[zraver]

Yup, the Indian's haven't spent the last 8-9 years fixing the deficencies discovered in 88-89. The T-90 is junk compared to the Arjun with inferior armor and survivability, inferior mobility and fire on the move envelope, an inferior power pack and power to weight ratio, increased gorund pressure, reduced crew effectiveness and increased combat fatigue, inferior battle management systems, inferior electronics, no room for major moderinisation etc.

As for the fire control issue specifically, the Israelies have been involved for a number of years now and they are world class fire control designers so betting Pakistan's future on an article written years ago is fool hardy.

 

[joey]

so your now posting old articles? geez sooo insecure!! carry on regardless of what you believe you can never come to technical grounds and argue

I wont feed you much but just it happens that now I'm free.

Arjun facts and remarks it earned after every field trials, ever conducted by IA.

Arjun as per MOD 2007 report has conducted

.41 Regarding the snag, he further stated :-

“Sir, we have driven them and for over 60,000 kms and fired more than 8,000 rounds. There was no problem. What happens is that in the gun control system, there are power amplifiers which are used in the fire control system. Some temperature settings were not properly done by the parent company. These were tucked inside. As you know, now-a-days, the deck is packaged so densely even to get access to that you have to take out the whole module. So, when this type of settings get disturbed, the rule says that one has to go through the whole qualification process again. There is no change in the design. It is a temperature re-setting which was got done. That has been rectified. Now the tanks would be there by the middle of January”.

Can you prove me all these exercises or trials you quoted have constituted 60000 kms?

Naturally, all this past history tend us not to believe any claims before any trials or credible certification of its features.

I'm talking of Ashwamedha trials, since your talking of history of Arjun tanks why not look what is the proper QGSR OF IT? (QUALITITATIVE GENERAL STAFF REQUIREMENTS)

History of Arjun tank,
http://*****************/history-of-arjun-tank-development

History of past trials?
I want you to proove official figures here that the number of trials you quoted, how come it can cover 60000 kms?

Credible Certification? Who does that? Definitely not PAC for Arjun nor PDF, or I'm missing something here?

8.18 During oral evidence, on the production of MBT Arjun, the
representative of the Ministry informed the Committee :-

“………….I want to tell you the roadmap of MBT Arjun as an
hon/ Member had asked about this issue. I want to assure you that after these 15 tanks are tried by the Army, the DRDO will be
involved only for 15 more tanks. As soon as the Ordnance Factory
produces these 30 tanks, the DGQA will take over the responsibility
for giving technical clearance – which DRDO is doing today – and
the links will be broken. Thereafter, it will be entirely the Ordnance
Factory production, and the DGQA will be responsible for its
certification. Hopefully, this situation will remain till DRDO does
some more research and makes a Mark II of Arjun Tank. If they
decide to do that, then, again, the Government will start, but that
will be only after producing 124 Tanks and not before that. We
will produce 124 Tanks, as the Army has accepted and told us to
produce these Tanks”.

Do you have official DGQA report to prove your claims and not some indian exprele a la story.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/16589.html

Dont quote me Indian Express, neither Shiv arror, if you want to substantiate your claims, contact Army headquerters and check if the officers said above and their rank and from which corps they are.

I'm not here to listen blabaering of Shiv arror, which you should know from my past response to you.

In other words, after three decades of research, Main Battle Tank Arjun cannot stand on its own “indigenous” feet

Indeed, how amusing So the gun of Abrams must be imported thus Abrams after so many decades cannot stand on its won feet what knid of logic?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/arjun.htm

It is very very correct, There were 14 problems around 1995, This is 2007, 10 years from then the problems has been resolved.

I'm sorry but if you expect India to make the perfect in its first try, it cannot because it has to do 60000 kms run and 8000 round fire before it gets certified.

http://www.india-today.com/itoday/24111997/defence.html

Again quoting from Army generals? I'll quote you peoples who loves mig 35, some who likes F18, so? There is a divide inside Army headquarters over change in certain things of induction of Arjun, and ofcourse change in their pockets from the special lobbies.

I can quote you from a IIt professor who thinks ndia should have better went off of joining the Mig 33 project with RSK-Mig, so thats gospel? eh?

Apparently the poorest element of the tank being its Fire Control System and its shooting accuracy.

Says who you?

From Official MOD Report 2007,

MBT Arjun firing accuracy is far superior to other two tanks. It has a second generation thermal imager and can engage targets at over 2500 meters.

Do you want me to bring peoples here who have witnessed Arjuns firing?
Or you want me to believe what a abc person of Army , media quotes? out of 1 million + army?

Latest report are with frontier India, kindly check the accuracy of gun, check DRDO's 120mm gun section and its MRS (muzzle reference system) and its accuracy provided by two axis electro-hydraulic stabilized platform as well.

Not suitable for hot climates i.e. deserts.

Prove it with FACTS.

Low power to weight ratio makes it less agile too.

Hehe, Less agile like? you want this to make a AoA or a Roll rate?

Some points to measure agility,

1> Lower GPSI than T90!! means it is less weighty than T90 in a inertial reference frame where if you think your the ground and Arjun is sitting on you.

thjere is a APU, thus 100 Hp is not signifantly decreasing any mroeo T/W's , 1500 HP would have been good surely, but then again so CITV would have been good, it will come there is upgrade potential.

Very old design

Check JDR(Janes) 88-91 one od the issues, had a complete coverage of ARJUN Technology.
and oh would love to know what will be a new design?

and I expect it to be out matched by new rival tanks, comming out in a decade or so.

Indeed, it will be out-matched by XK2, M1A2 SEP etc , definitely not by some 125 mm T stuff, Thanks, Remember There will be a MK2 as well.

Due to above grave issues associated,

Correction : Grave issues which were there in 1995.

I also expect it to be inducted in limited numbers by IA.

hehe the last resort a man in insecurity goes to, 124 is not limited numbers, what do you think Army will induct 200-300 tanks and inevest over 1.2 billion dollars to keep it in my backyard?

Let the delivery of 124 complete first.

 

[joey]

As for the fire control issue specifically, the Israelies have been involved for a number of years now and they are world class fire control designers so betting Pakistan's future on an article written years ago is fool hardy.

zraver the Army has never complained about Gun/FCS (ask dberwal, and there are other sources which i'll giove you later), the issue was with suspension first, issue was with tracks which are now fixed by L&T, India , issue was with IGMS, remember BEL was manufacturing liscenced produced 2nd Generation ITT from a dutch company, but US stopped that after when they knew about it, it delayed the developement of TI/IGMS. Issue was with overheating of certain LRU's which was fixed, issue was with making it modern, so it outpaces the T90 and meets the QSR, please check the developement of Arjun tank,

http://*****************/history-of-arjun-tank-development

The HUGE HUGE issue was with production, OFB cannot even make properly T90 till now, and it has ZLICH infrastructure to manufacture Arjun tank with its finer tolerance!

These are the countries that makes ITT rest imports them or liscenced manufactures them.

USA - Litton, ITT, Northrop Grumman - Gen3 GaAs standard
Russia - JSC Katod, Novosibirsk - Gen2+ multialkali and Gen3 GaAs standard
Japan - Hamamatsu - Gen3 GaAs standard
France/Netherlands - Photonis-DEP - XD-4, XR5, eXtended Hypergen XH72

 

[joey]

Arjun as you see today , revised work started around 1995 only, while only one prorotype was built from 1989, after change in QGSR in around 1986, 1989 to 1995 saw changes being made to prototypes and get around 5 to 6 tans ready by 1995~1997, then further developements, and developement was completed around 2004!

With 5 tanks rolling out of factory in 2004.

 

[Bull]

Arjun facts and remarks it earned after every field trials, ever conducted by IA.
Naturally, all this past history tend us not to believe any claims before any trials or credible certification of its features.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/16589.html


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/arjun.htm


http://www.india-today.com/itoday/24111997/defence.html


Apparently the poorest element of the tank being its Fire Control System and its shooting accuracy.
Not suitable for hot climates i.e. deserts.
Low power to weight ratio makes it less agile too.
Very old design and I expect it to be out matched by new rival tanks, comming out in a decade or so.
Due to above grave issues associated, I also expect it to be inducted in limited numbers by IA.

Well i guess this is yr 2007 and not 1997. Whats the point in making such rubbish and idiotic posts which are decades old. If you dont know any **** about whats happenign then ask a few who knows or start reading up.

 

[Bull]

so your now posting old articles? geez sooo insecure!! carry on regardless of what you believe you can never come to technical grounds and argue

I wont feed you much but just it happens that now I'm free.

Joey, pls just dont bother. He is not here learn or discuss anything. Its just one of those losers who are killing time here.

 

[BATMAN]

Joey, pls just dont bother. He is not here learn or discuss anything. Its just one of those losers who are killing time here.

Dude, I'm content of what God have blessed me with (Al-Hamdullilah).
Do you know you are a big sucker hanging around here who know nothing of me and what will be coming of me.

 

[BATMAN]

Well i guess this is yr 2007 and not 1997. Whats the point in making such rubbish and idiotic posts which are decades old. If you dont know any **** about whats happenign then ask a few who knows or start reading up.

I thought you knew the latest, any how go inform yourself at below link. It is about week old.

https://defence.pk/forums/showpost.php?p=73018&postcount=47

I think you are only reading what suits you, otherwise you would have never asked for it.
I hope, now you are all informed about Arjun, old and new. i.e. 1997 and 2007.

 

[BATMAN]

Dear Joey, what ever I have said was referenced from (Indian) press reports.
I believe those article writers\reporters cannot make up every thing by themself!

And, In response to all what you have written above; I say Arjun is still a testing tank, which has not passed a single field trial as of today.
Only definate thing about Arjun development is that half century is a (world) record making time.
As you explained that some (hell of a) lobby is keeping it away from induction, than why don't DRDO go for international certifications.

 

[BATMAN]

Another latest article in support of my arguments/posts
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20070013436

Next month's trials will determine whether the Arjun will be just a token presence in the army's fleet or maybe someday its backbone. So far, an unconvinced army has ordered just 124 tanks for its 3800 strong fleet.

Certifying any specifications or issuing comparison statement before any proper testing do no good other than raising doubts and suspisions on subject item.
All what you have posted above is lot of bla bla without understanding my point. Do you see it now?
I also questioned the number of already manufactured tanks, quote from same article:

Fourteen Arjun tanks are ready for the June comparative trials against the T-72s and T-90s that the army puts its faith in. Will the Arjun come out tops?

 

[Adux]

Dear Joey, what ever I have said was referenced from (Indian) press reports.

I believe those article writers\reporters cannot make up every thing by themself!

Ok does your sentiment apply to those writer's who have written good about the tank, or only the one's who have bashed it.

And, In response to all what you have written above; I say Arjun is still a testing tank, which has not passed a single field trial as of today.

single trial, you have access to arjun's testing!!! from what i know most people dont know the test specifications. And it has passed several test. Maybe someone should post video's of arjun doing the 3m obstacle clearance.

Only definate thing about Arjun development is that half century is a (world) record making time

.

shows your knowledge of the arjun development cycle. you are here to just drum up something without any knowledge of facts.

international certifications.

Please tell us about the international certifications for tanks?
do you have a body that we dont know of, the secret international society which clears tanks for production even though the local government hasnt.