Arjun-II MBT development l Updates & discussion.

[Omega007]

Man you are dam to funny and please never mind you are free to live in delusion than your mighty Arjun is better than T-90

Well mr know all,since you are the holy grail of MBTs personified,pray enlighten us lower beings with your great wisdom,in which way the T 90S is better than the Arjun MkII and describe them point by point.

 

[Zarvan]

Well mr know all,since you are the holy grail of MBTs personified,pray enlighten us lower beings with your great wisdom,in which way the T 90S is better than the Arjun MkII and describe them point by point.

@Dazzler will do that job he will describe you one by one but still you won't listen

 

[Omega007]

Arjun beats T-90 and you fall for this report you are one hell of a funny guy @DESERT FIGHTER I am seriously started to love these Indians.

Can't even squat without asking for help from daddy!!And I thought you were the Gospel when it came to military matters!!

@Dazzler will do that job he will describe you one by one but still you won't listen

Well,I'm asking you sire since you know everything yourself!!Why do you need to take help from @Dazzler now when you were so quick to make fun of the Indian members??Then what does this tell us about you??

 

[Zarvan]

Can't even squat without asking for help from daddy!!And I thought you were the Gospel when it came to military matters!!



Well,I'm asking you sire since you know everything yourself!!Why do you need to take help from @Dazzler now when you were so quick to make fun of the Indian members??Then what does this tell us about you??

I can but you are to dumb to listen in your love for your own made crap but what else to expect from those people who are constantly blaming there own Army of treason

 

[Omega007]

I can but you are to dumb to listen in your love for your own made crap but what else to expect from those people who are constantly blaming there own Army of treason

On the contrary,I'm all ears actually!!It was me who asked you to come clean on your 'findings',about what prompted you to form your opinion on Arjun,but then I was probably too naive to hope for answers from you that would be remotely intelligible.Actually it's you who have been blinded by false nationalism and hate for his neighbor and not the other way round that you can't see or rather want to see the reality!!

 

[kṣamā]

I can but you are to dumb to listen in your love for your own made crap but what else to expect from those people who are constantly blaming there own Army of treason

If you can then do it.... it's a different story what we do. We like to call a spade a spade. I donn know how you roll.

 

[holysaturn]

Got access to a CVRDE magazine presented to our University department, I could find some very interesting stuff in it.

This is a picture of the arjun HEAT round which was tried initially but concept did not reach its conclusion.This was particularly new to me.

Arjun firing accuracy at the target during trials.

Arjun CMF

Arjun ARRV

Variants of FMBT

And finally the FMBT design itself. Though this design is not frozen it gives us some insights.

Specifications which we were anxious to hear. 125mm gun for commonality with t-90 ammo,retaining 4 crew may be related to handling the increased flow of information in the digital battlefield and maintenance. Mature components like ATT,COAPS,RWS of Arjun MK2 will be used for the FMBT to minimise development time.

 

[Gessler]

Got access to a CVRDE magazine presented to our University department, I could find some very interesting stuff in it.

This is a picture of the arjun HEAT round which was tried initially but concept did not reach its conclusion.This was particularly new to me.

Arjun firing accuracy at the target during trials.

Arjun CMF

Arjun ARRV

Variants of FMBT

And finally the FMBT design itself. Though this design is not frozen it gives us some insights.

Specifications which we were anxious to hear

Brilliant! Anything else in the book about other armored vehicles being built by CVRDE?

 

[holysaturn]

Brilliant! Anything else in the book about other armored vehicles being built by CVRDE?

No everything else was the usual stuff, catapult,BLT,Bhim. Did not think this book could have rare info, scrolling through the pages when I hit upon these.

 

[Omega007]

Got access to a CVRDE magazine presented to our University department, I could find some very interesting stuff in it.

This is a picture of the arjun HEAT round which was tried initially but concept did not reach its conclusion.This was particularly new to me.

Arjun firing accuracy at the target during trials.

Arjun CMF

Arjun ARRV

Variants of FMBT

And finally the FMBT design itself. Though this design is not frozen it gives us some insights.

Specifications which we were anxious to hear. 125mm gun for commonality with t-90 ammo,retaining 4 crew may be related to handling the increased flow of information in the digital battlefield and maintenance. Mature components like ATT,COAPS,RWS of Arjun MK2 will be used for the FMBT to minimise development time.

This is more of just initial concept drawings than anything actual.No one knows what FMBT would look like since the Army haven't even submitted the PSQR yet!!But one thing is for sure,the weight will never be limited to just 50 tons,in fact there is enough chance that the overall weight may increase over the 59 ton of Arjun MkII if they want to maintain a viable level of crew protection against ever evolving anti armor threats.Just take a look at what other nations are doing with their MBTs,the MBTs all over the world are growing more and more heavier compared to their earlier blocks.................be it the Russians,Ukrainians,Chinese,Koreans,Americans,Germans - each and every one of them are building newer MBTs which are heavier than their predecessors.So I don't see any reason why India will do it any differently.

 

[holysaturn]

This is more of just initial concept drawings than anything actual.No one knows what FMBT would look like since the Army haven't even submitted the PSQR yet!!But one thing is for sure,the weight will never be limited to just 50 tons,in fact there is enough chance that the overall weight may increase over the 59 ton of Arjun MkII if they want to maintain a viable level of crew protection against ever evolving anti armor threats.Just take a look at what other nations are doing with their MBTs,the MBTs all over the world are growing more and more heavier compared to their earlier blocks.................be it the Russians,Ukrainians,Chinese,Koreans,Americans,Germans - each and every one of them are building newer MBTs which are heavier than their predecessors.So I don't see any reason why India will do it any differently.

It is an initial concept not the frozen one,but some specifications may be right.You are right when you say that the weight cannot be 50 tons, it is probably going to be a little more heavy but they would be adopting a armour which can be scaled up according to the threats on the field so that strategic mobility is not affected.

 

[Omega007]

It is an initial concept not the frozen one,but some specifications may be right.You are right when you say that the weight cannot be 50 tons, it is probably going to be a little more heavy but they would be adopting a armour which can be scaled up according to the threats on the field so that strategic mobility is not affected.

Yeah,I had heard that one before,it means the MBT will have different armor thickness level based on the threat perception,somewhat like that of the Japanese Type 10 and upcoming Russian Armata project.It' would be good innovation if you ask me.Anyway,apart from the weight,the gun is also a no no since the 125mm guns have very low growth potential and then an L/52 of 125mm diameter would be never sufficient for the battlefield of future.Personally I would prefer a 140 mm L/52 smoo9th barrel fitted to an unmanned turret,though it may become a bit too complex as a system.
And besides the gun,the number of crew member also doesn't make any sense.I mean why would you need 4 crew members when you have decided to place an auto loader??What would be the function of the 4th crew member??It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[holysaturn]

Yeah,I had heard that one before,it means the MBT will have different armor thickness level based on the threat perception,somewhat like that of the Japanese Type 10 and upcoming Russian Armata project.It' would be good innovation if you ask me.Anyway,apart from the weight,the gun is also a no no since the 125mm guns have very low growth potential and then an L/52 of 125mm diameter would be never sufficient for the battlefield of future.Personally I would prefer a 140 mm L/52 smoo9th barrel fitted to an unmanned turret,though it may become a bit too complex as a system.
And besides the gun,the number of crew member also doesn't make any sense.I mean why would you need 4 crew members when you have decided to place an auto loader??What would be the function of the 4th crew member??It just doesn't make any sense.

Yes I find that absurd but its not me who made this specification,I am just posting what I found.But CVRDE designers have told me that 4 man crew are ideal to handle the intensive maintenance,can be handy in urban combat where two can man MG's on the roof(the RWS with its small field of view is just not responsive enough if the attackers are as responsive as the chechens) but weight reduction trade-off can change things. .
Scalable armour will also be available for belly armour to tackle IED threats in urban operations where mobility is restricted and thus not critical.

 

[me_itsme]

If you see in this video from 2:21 it shows a possible concept of MK3. It does match the concept shown in the article to some extent atleast.

 

[Omega007]

Yes I find that absurd but its not me who made this specification,I am just posting what I found.

Neither have I accused of anything,rather I was just pointing out the apparent flaws in the design concept you posted.

But CVRDE designers have told me that 4 man crew are ideal to handle the intensive maintenance,can be handy in urban combat where two can man MG's on the roof(the RWS with its small field of view is just not responsive enough if the attackers are as responsive as the chechens) but weight reduction trade-off can change things. .

Another flawed theory which just cements my fear that CVRDE still doesn't understand the design concept and operational needs of an MBT.This is what happens when you have stuffed the design team with civilian technocrats only,who doesn't have any practical experience in or idea about warfare actual battlefield.Like for this instance,it's an established norm that armored warfare inside urban environment should be avoided as long as possible.And even if you must engage in the same,for armored forces to move through urban environment,you need dedicated tank support vehicles like the Russian BMP-T Terminator,which are properly equipped to deal with insurgents armed with RPGs and other anti tank weapons.An MBT alone can not handle each and every threat,especially the threats from the overhead positions due to the lower elevation limit of its main gun and the secondary armaments lacking the necessary 'punch'.A 12.7mm HMG won't be as effective in suppressing a bunch of insurgents,holed in say at the 5th floor of a concrete building as would be a pair of 30 mm high velocity guns placed on your turret............and that's the exact reason why you need something like the BMP-T.

Scalable armour will also be available for belly armour to tackle IED threats in urban operations where mobility is restricted and thus not critical.

This is a very good decision actually.