Arguments of choosing JF-17 Thunder over JAS-39 Gripen

[Peaceful Civilian]

Why are u blaming zardari for this?

He is probably saying this because, Maybe, Failed talk to grab commission between Zardari and Nawaz Sharif .

 

[ziaulislam]

i think we shouldnt go out of the topic but american drone issue is mostly poltical not military..
if someone doubts this they should simply check iran..there airforcee consists of older sukhoi vintage aircrafts yet US dont violate their airspace other than a few spy ones

reason: as pointed out by american law maker USA will violate airspace only if the goverment allows it or its at war with the country declared
in pakistan its we that have given a clear green signal. Memogate scandal tells it all

 

[MastanKhan]

Answering to your question, I don't think so.

Even if you had 3 Squadrons of Rafales or EF or whatever, the reaction would have been the same.

Same excuses would have been made up, same old story would have been published.

A F-16 or F-7 could have atleast intercepted the intruding heli, if not shot it down.

Sir,

Please---and don't get mad at me---okay---you talk out of inexperience---. Power is an APHRODISIAC---and a powerful weapon that puts you at par or closer with the enemy is a bigger APHRODISIAC ---okay---.

Now----next thing---when you look ahead and prepare for your coming battles five years ahead of time----your thinking and approach towards a conflict changes---as you are more focued on self preservation, you exit out those who stand in your way---because success has become a part and parcel of your life style---you look for success---you breed success---you befriend those who are successful beings----.

But once you get on the defeatist course---it is all down hill.

My goodman---it is a package deal---it is a life of shifting paradigms---you don't believe me---ask the paf---when they had those newer shiny toys---what they did with them---why they couldn't do anything now-----because they got nothing----.

 

[MastanKhan]

Brother In this case what is the use of Rafales or Grappen's?? Those were Apache helicopters, Not F18 or F22. PAF could use F7 for these helicopters. F7 is enough for Apache if there were proper Rules of engagement or "PAF Will" to destroy these intruders. Just Imagine if Pakistan had 200 Grappen's? As Grappen's is JV of Sweden and UK,Then it is high Possibility, "Sweden,UK" could Lock these Planes if used against USA/NATO. Everyone knows Jets which USA provides to Israel, contains full capabilities then he provides to third world with limited..., Lol what is Lock system?? There are many Gossips here and there, I.e, if Iraq uses F16 against Israel.If Pak uses f16 against USA. And what about USA history with Pak??? Forgot?, always proved themselves Back Stabbers. They are only Friends with themselves and their interests, And about JF. I,ve not included After sales service, Maintenance costs, sanctions prone. etc.

Sir,

Welcome to the forum-----a little in-experience hehn----talking about stabbing and back stabbing---pakistan is an equal oppurtunity back stabber as well---if you have not learnt the art of back stabbing the u s till now---then pak needs to be embarrassed and ashamed of its incompetence---because as a nation---we do indeed back stab our friends and family members without prejudice---now we cry when we find one better than us.

So---now we are screaming in pain when america back stabs us-----it is just a sob story----we should have done our jobs years ago---would not have had problems---.

My man---you are so clueless and innocent to how the world defence industry acts and reacts----.

When american weapons are poised against the french and the swedish weapons---those french and swede defence contractors are praying to their catholic saints for pakistan to be successful agaisnt the american weapons---you know why---because if successful---it will increase their sales----and the biggest of all---put american defence industry to shame---and the french will be laughing as well----for fkcuing the americans thru pakistan.

It really tears me up---it tears me to pieces---you people are so illeterate even with all your degrees and education. You have no clue about the world---only know how to deceive people.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Sir,

Please---and don't get mad at me---okay---you talk out of inexperience---. Power is an APHRODISIAC---and a powerful weapon that puts you at par or closer with the enemy is a bigger APHRODISIAC ---okay---.

Now----next thing---when you look ahead and prepare for your coming battles five years ahead of time----your thinking and approach towards a conflict changes---as you are more focued on self preservation, you exit out those who stand in your way---because success has become a part and parcel of your life style---you look for success---you breed success---you befriend those who are successful beings----.

But once you get on the defeatist course---it is all down hill.

My goodman---it is a package deal---it is a life of shifting paradigms---you don't believe me---ask the paf---when they had those newer shiny toys---what they did with them---why they couldn't do anything now-----because they got nothing----.

Offtopic...It was one of the best opportunities for PAF to send in F-16s not to shoot down but to show their vigilant presence that we are here independent with all ears and eyes that we have paid you (US) in full and that we mean business and we will use it under any circumstances, but Nay PAF had that scare of (what if). I am very suspicious of the current air force chief and his role in May 2 and then November role, people say PAF can't take on NATO, don't need to but active presence has its points too, I am not sure why they think IAF is so weak, IAF is equally strong when we lay eyes on what is the excuse if IAF comes and have a tiny little surgical strike like these helis did precisely surgical strike on the border, and you know what when SU-30 came and and later we heard we showed them or US the cam that F-16 had a lock-on I don't know it could be big bluff..
Lets have a summery: Is PAF seen any where..
mig-25 comes
Many a times gunships hit
drones are regularly trolls
2 May
Nov 26
Across the globe any incident or deliberate air space violations have a reaction that is scramble scramble Chinese did it, Japanese did it, europeans did it, canadians did it why is PAF reluctant to even show their presence what sort of deal is it with so called allys this is just so embarrassing for a airforce from RPAF to PAF in 2011.

 

[Bossman]

Sir,

My man---you are so clueless and innocent to how the world defence industry acts and reacts----.

and Mastan you are expert in the world defence industry, having worked in it all your life.

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

Continuing in the vein of this off topic ramble fest; Swedes are Lutheran and do not pray to Catholic Saints per se. Looking far into the future, it is quite possible that Pakistan's Thunder project will come to rival Swedish Gripen. It will depend on professional management of Thunder as an enterprise with particular emphasis on aggressive international sales, financing (with reputable Bank guarantees), effective supply chain and continual innovation. Then this argument would have been comprehensively settled....circa 2022.

 

[MastanKhan]

Continuing in the vein of this off topic ramble fest; Swedes are Lutheran and do not pray to Catholic Saints per se. Looking far into the future, it is quite possible that Pakistan's Thunder project will come to rival Swedish Gripen. It will depend on professional management of Thunder as an enterprise with particular emphasis on aggressive international sales, financing (with reputable Bank guarantees), effective supply chain and continual innovation. Then this argument would have been comprehensively settled....circa 2022.

Hi,

You get the drift to what I mean---don't you---pakistanis are mostly exposed to catholics so they can relate tot hem----for them a lutheran is another catholic---no disrespect intended---thank you. So, catholic saints or lutheran saints or muslim saints-----saints are saints.

 

[MastanKhan]

and Mastan you are expert in the world defence industry, having worked in it all your life.

Hi,

How are you---you still hanging out, outside the driveway----man give a purpose to your presence---do something and don't hang on me for your existance----make your own waves---it looks so petty now---don't you feel embarrassed and ashamed.

If you had read those works of 'fiction' that you were commenting on---!!!!!!!!!!!! Go find a life for yourself guy---.

 

[MastanKhan]

Luftwaffe,

You are absolutely correct---the moment the call came---the paf should have launched a couple of night fighter aircraft---just for the sake of show----. There was no reason to engage---the the approach would have created the reason for the striking gunships to go back.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Looking far into the future, it is quite possible that Pakistan's Thunder project will come to rival Swedish Gripen. It will depend on professional management of Thunder as an enterprise with particular emphasis on aggressive international sales, financing (with reputable Bank guarantees), effective supply chain and continual innovation. Then this argument would have been comprehensively settled....circa 2022.

JFT had now taken a pace but it still has to go miles, You might have noticed Swedes are testing stealth wind tunnel Gripen model, they have already planned for next generation along with the best upgrades for the current NG. So for now or for years to come there is no rival just gripen has its own market and JFT has its own.

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

Swedes may or may not be tunnel testing but any European nation is unlikely to field a LO\Stealth aircraft (as in F22 , F/A 35) in the coming decade - considering the resource crunch in Eurozone. They have better uses for their resources. (I concede Sweden is not as worse off as ERM II nations but still)
Moreover, Swedes may not be able to offer a LO\Stealth aircraft for international sales with US engine. Nevertheless, Gripen NG has (as you put it) 'best upgrades' like AESA, IRST, super-cruise in most of its flight envelope, exceptionally well-designed main under-carriage for a LO weapon pod/bay, superb avionics architecture. It is the procurement costs where it is vulnerable.
So that was never in question.
My emphasis (I should use jazzy emoticons perhaps) was on improvements in business end of Thunder Project required to make it more universally appealing.

The title of this thread seems to counter your final bottom-line though? And in any case what are we to make of the persistent rumors of Block III Testing with a diamond nose, IRST and better engine? Are the Chinese not going to do any tunnel tests in the next decade?

 

[Manticore]

publicity , marketing , site layout is of key importance-- more than half of the benefits touted by gripen can also be stressed in jft effectively if we have a dedicated professional publicity team-- jft development and integration is occuring very quickly -- sensor fusion ,datalink ,composite materials mightbe where jft is lagging but then again the first flight of gripen was in the late 80s whereas jft was in 2003, so they have a 20 years head start

In pakistan's context , we have to factor in factors other than the capability of the fighter-- capabilty offered to paf wouldve been different,price, spare parts ,embargoes etc wouldve been taken into consideration--- we've already got one 4.5 gen fighter [f16] which is sanction prone , we couldnt have gone for another sanction prone fighter particularly if it was to be bought in 250+ numbers

 

[Sapper]

SELF DELETE

Just realized you were talking about a different even altogether.

Sorry

 

[Tshering22]

This is one thing that is impressive about Pakistanis. Though finances might be a constraint but still you guys are fast in induction.