Arguments of choosing JF-17 Thunder over JAS-39 Gripen

[Drawn_Sword_of_God]

none of them are mach 2?

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

guys i have some info on gripen which sources say r close to tech on jf 17
http://i39.tinypic.com/307w4dx.jpg

 

[IndianTiger]

Gripen is good but too expensive for pakistan.

 

[Bossman]

Gripen is good but too expensive for pakistan.

Cost is not the only factor. It is value for money i.e. we can get more bang for the buck with F16s and JF17 than the Gripen and we are not stupid like the Indians to go on a spending spree simply to pump our egos. Spending $80 to $100mm a piece on either Typhoon or Rafale for the value they provide is idiotic to say the least. Even the Europeans cannot sustain the cost of keeping those aircrafts in active service. Mark my word Indian MRCA procurement will go down in history as a big military disaster in the same class as the Maginot Line.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

...Mark my word Indian MRCA procurement will go down in history as a big military disaster in the same class as the Maginot Line.

Can't compare the two IMO. One was a defence deemed impregnable and therefore sufficient against the east. The second is just one deal among many that just one arm of a military is concluding, nobody's defence is banking on it, and it's a rather pithy 12 bil dollars.

 

[houshanghai]

Compare/Contrast: JAS-39 and JF-17(by the other forum)

Compare/Contrast: JAS-39 and JF-17 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

a nice size comparison


JF-17 vs Gripen(by South Africa forum)

http://www.saairforce.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1293

 

[Manticore]

http://dc335.*******.com/img/9eDXyRfX/2-j10_schem_04.jpg
http://dc353.*******.com/img/6Dd2HoEG/grande4.png
http://dc353.*******.com/img/6Dd2HoEG/s7/grande4.png

 

[houshanghai]

 

[Manticore]

hahahaa ^ both are my videos!


stats by rookh
JAS-39 Gripen / JF-17 Thunder / F-20 Tigershark

Length: 14.1m / 14.4m / 14.4m
Height: 4.5m / 4.77m / 4.2m
Wing span: 8.4m / 9.0m / 8.13m
Empty weight: 6,800kg / 6,586kg / 5,090kg
Internal fuel: 2,000kg / 2,186kg / ?
Total load capacity: 5,300kg / 3,800kg / ?
Max TOW: 14,000kg / 12,400kg / 11,920kg
Max Speed: M2.0 / M1.6 / M2.0
Service ceiling: 50,000ft (15,240m) / 55,000ft (16,764m) / 55,000 ft (16,764m)
Engine: RM-12 / RD-93 / GE F404
Maximum Engine thrust: 18,000lb (8,164kg) / 19,000lb (8,618kg) / 17,000lb (7,700kg)
Thrust to weight ratio: 0.92 / 0.98 / 1.1
G limit: +9.0, -3 / +8.5, -3 / ?
Ferry range: 3,200km (2,000miles) / 3,480km (2,160miles) / 2,759km (1,715miles)
Combat radius: 800km (500miles) / 1,352km (840miles) / 556km (345miles)
Hardpoints: 8 / 7 / 7

in my aircraft designs thread i have posted the size and position of placement of the canards and there effects on the fighters function -- but i will try to find out effects on function with change in design of vertical stablizer

Google Translate


kamra specs--
----------------------------Gripen ---JF17[blk1]----F16[blk30]

LENGTH [M]----------------14.1---14.0----14.8
WINGSPAN[M]----------------8.4----9.5-----9.8
HIEGHT[M]---------------------4.5----4.8-----4.9
WING AREA [M2]------------30.0---24.5----27.0
THRUST [KN]---------------80.5---84.4---127.0
MAX SPEED -----------------2.0----1.8-----2.0
COMBAT RADIUS[KM]----------800---1352----1500
FERRY RANGE [KM]-----------3200---3000----4000
SERVICE CIELING[M]-------15000--16700---17000
WING LOADING[KG/M2]--------333----370----431
THRUST TO WT--------------0.97---0.99----1.09

the empty wt and total loaded wt is where we have to work on , rest of the parameters are quite similar

JAS 39 GripenC/D-- empty 6,622 kg- max. take-off 12,473 kg
JF-17- empty weight 6,320 kg- max take-off weight 12,700 kg
F-16A/B/C/D - empty 8,273 kg -max. take-off 19,187 lb

Physical
-Lenth 14.33 meter
-height 4.72 meter
-wing span 9.45 meter
-empty weight 6586.26 Kg

Performance
-Max take off weight 12383.28 Kg
-max speed 1.6 at high altitude
-speed at low altitude that is 700 knots = 1.02 mach
-service ceiling 16916.4 meter roughly 17 Km
-maximum engin thrust 8700 Kg .i.e 85 Kn
-ferry range 3481.76 Km

Armamant
-Total Load capacity 3628.8 Kg


izmir specs

i have posted some jft evolution shots here , houshangahi , plz add any if in chinese media-- thankyou!
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...8-combat-aircraft-designs-42.html#post1960626

 

[houshanghai]

no p...


an interesting piece of inf from Gripen NG

Duels In The Sky | AVIATION WEEK

Duels In The Sky



The first new-build Gripen NG is due to fly in 2012. Reports describe stealth enhancements including diverterless inlets. The enhanced performance (EPE) engine would be a useful addition—at its highest reported rating, its non-afterburning output would be over 90% of the maximum thrust of the C/D’s RM12 engine, although Saab may elect to take a smaller thrust boost combined with longer engine life to reduce ownership cost. GE claims that the EPE is relatively low-risk.

 

[ziaulislam]

Cost is not the only factor. It is value for money i.e. we can get more bang for the buck with F16s and JF17 than the Gripen and we are not stupid like the Indians to go on a spending spree simply to pump our egos. Spending $80 to $100mm a piece on either Typhoon or Rafale for the value they provide is idiotic to say the least. Even the Europeans cannot sustain the cost of keeping those aircrafts in active service. Mark my word Indian MRCA procurement will go down in history as a big military disaster in the same class as the Maginot Line.

when us lifted sanction after 9/11 Pakistan intended to buy gripen in vast number instead of f-16s (which was not avaliable) but it was dropped in mid 200s due to two reason Up gradation of jf-17 programme to a true 4/4.5 gen aircraft and later on availability of f-16s
thats one reason why several modification were made from pro type 1 to 4 ..

 

[ziaulislam]

Can't compare the two IMO. One was a defence deemed impregnable and therefore sufficient against the east. The second is just one deal among many that just one arm of a military is concluding, nobody's defence is banking on it, and it's a rather pithy 12 bil dollars.

12 billion is just intial price..lots of expenditure will be done in infrastruture and training along with weapons..the true value is near 16-18 billion dollars
for example just for mica BVRs a deal of worth 1 billion is expected ..as we know india usually gets stuff more expensive that market prices..

 

[Silk]

Gripen or JF17...

Well, I have seen the same discussion on Keymags... Let us make it more specific.

Gipenc/d versus JF17 block1

The C/D were just upgraded (and not newly produced) Gripen A/B. There are not many left. And with Gripen NG on the corner, why should one invest still in the old C/D? In that case the JF17 offers cheap, newly frame, good technology and weapons that are not linked to nations that are known for being pita (pain in the a) during times you need those assets.

Gripen NG versus JF17 block2.
No one bought NG yet. Expensive. Not exactly low RCS. Depending on US engine/fbw. Depending on lots of strings.

We have to see what JF17 block2 is...

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Gripen hands down JF-17 is no match

 

[houshanghai]

Gripen hands down JF-17 is no match

BUT Why did SAAB care JFT?

Gripen NG Decoy Decision Nears


Jul 21, 2010



By Robert Wall wall@aviationweek.com
FARNBOROUGH

Saab is continuing along the road to fully defining — and will soon make an important supplier decision on — its next-generation (NG) fighter’s self-protection suite.

The Gripen NG will have a fiber-optic towed decoy as a baseline subsystem to help defeat radar-guided missile threats. A towed decoy is only an option on the current model, but the supplier choice is pending for the subsystem on the NG, says Eddy de la Motte, a Gripen International program official.

Meanwhile, Saab is currently trying out different cockpit concepts for what the avionics setup should look like. That process also is expected to wrap up soon. Having completed two trial periods with the Gripen NG demonstrator, the aircraft will now go into a layup period to be modified into an avionics testbed. The aircraft is expected to return to flight next year, de la Motte says. The demonstrator so far has logged 175 flight hours.

In turn, Gripen officials are keeping a close watch on the international marketplace, where they are tracking 17 countries for potential sales opportunities. A couple more opportunities are expected to emerge this year.

But competition remains heated, with possible new entrants such as the Chinese-Pakistani JF-17. Gripen officials say they have seen no impact from the appearance of the JF-17 on the scene yet. However, one company official acknowledges “we have to watch the JF-17 as well.”

Gripen NG Decoy Decision Nears | AVIATION WEEK