Argentina Considering To Purchase 12 JF17C Worth 664Million Dollars

[vishwambhar]

They don’t have the money. They have a rather small defense budget. Flankers risk CAASTA. Chinese Flanker series isn’t offered for export. Leaves behind J-10C (back to the money problem).


Might be so they don’t attract too much attention from the Brits this early?

Agreed exactly.... seems money problem and other issues such as CAATSA.... J10 will be a greatest choice if they can afford...

 

[vishwambhar]

Beats me,
maybe you should ask HAL folks, they did fly there to offer the Teja.

HAL is doing what any firm will do to explore a business opportunity.... I am just saying that Argentina is geographically a vast country and may be in future they want to try to snatch Falkland islands from UK... for that they need some heavy or long range Jets like Flankers or J10Cs.... small Tejas with short range may not suit for offensive purpose....

 

[Beast]

Indians arriving to wank themselves to death in requiem for tejas in

3
2
1

Goooooooooooo coconut power !

Indian cant. They cant even indigenous a simple ejection seat.

According to my Argentinian Friends. MiG-35 and Tejas are “very much not” in the running for the tender. The only two options are the F-16 and the JF-17. The F-16 honestly makes far more logistical and political sense for Argentina. Logistical because their current A4F use a bunch of components from the F-16 and political because then any issue remains in the west and China isn’t introduced into the south Asian fighter marker.
Currently the US has submitted a request to Britain to clear the sale of the aircraft, but with the British change in rulers it might throw a spanner in the progress if any had been made.

The original plan was to sell F-16 Block 40s to Argentina and locally upgrade them to block 50. Then it changed to offering them even older Danish F-16 MLUs, now they’re back to offering Block 40 (but maybe without the upgrade package). We’ve no idea of the munitions that will be provided but rest assured US will control their BVRs and AShMs. Also block 50/52+ and Beyond have British components, so they’re not an option anyways. Newest they can get is Block 50/52.

Obviously the F-16 has its inherent advantages in size and range, speed and maneuvering etc, but The Block 3 will easily outdo it in armament. That being said, it’s really still anyones game because Argentina has a say in his things go too, despite American pressure. So we have no idea who they will pick and when they will do it, if at all. There might just be so many political hurdles that we won’t see them buy a new fighter for several years still.

Argentina will not get US F-16. They will ask US this simple question. Can it be used against UK? If US cant answer this question. The F-16 is as good as worthless.

 

[etylo]

According to my Argentinian Friends. MiG-35 and Tejas are “very much not” in the running for the tender. The only two options are the F-16 and the JF-17. The F-16 honestly makes far more logistical and political sense for Argentina. Logistical because their current A4F use a bunch of components from the F-16 and political because then any issue remains in the west and China isn’t introduced into the south Asian fighter marker.
Currently the US has submitted a request to Britain to clear the sale of the aircraft, but with the British change in rulers it might throw a spanner in the progress if any had been made.

The original plan was to sell F-16 Block 40s to Argentina and locally upgrade them to block 50. Then it changed to offering them even older Danish F-16 MLUs, now they’re back to offering Block 40 (but maybe without the upgrade package). We’ve no idea of the munitions that will be provided but rest assured US will control their BVRs and AShMs. Also block 50/52+ and Beyond have British components, so they’re not an option anyways. Newest they can get is Block 50/52.

Obviously the F-16 has its inherent advantages in size and range, speed and maneuvering etc, but The Block 3 will easily outdo it in armament. That being said, it’s really still anyones game because Argentina has a say in his things go too, despite American pressure. So we have no idea who they will pick and when they will do it, if at all. There might just be so many political hurdles that we won’t see them buy a new fighter for several years still.

China and russia are only two independent suppliers that can possibly stand up to us and british pressures in time of war and clash, otherwise argentina will likely be choked on the supplies as they did in the falkland war.

 

[Tameem]

Syria and Afghanistan are broke. Syria can't buy the Thunder right now. Not sure if Talibans can't handle an aircraft maybe helicopters but not a fighter aircraft.

Why not Egypt? You people desperately needs an effective long range BVR and not getting any Meteor or AIM120 despites having Rafale and F16s. A shameful aspect on part of suppliers but You can easily get PL15E and PL10E here if you forego your idiotic absolute TOT insistance.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I pity the fools who thought that Block III is doomed without Russian engines. China needs WS-13 as intermediary power plant not only for J-35, but also for drones like GJ-11. It is not vaporware, and this report from Argentina Air Force proves it.

coming back to the main story, I cant help but wonder

does Argentina have the sufficient financial sources to fund such military acquisition? when it is reported that its not doing very well on the economic front?
countries that do have sufficient funds and some and have had good chance to evaluate JF-17 go for Western platforms (almost all middle eastern Arrab countries).

and those who do settle for JF-17 are those who are already struggling. its a shame there are extremes on both ends of the scale. there are no moderate middle countries that a light weight jet like JF17 can attract.

 

[Ghostkiller]

Why not Egypt? You people desperately needs an effective long range BVR and not getting any Meteor or AIM120 despites having Rafale and F16s. A shameful aspect on part of suppliers but You can easily get PL15E and PL10E here if you forego your idiotic absolute TOT insistance.

There is a chance that we will get the Meteor in the new Rafale deal because old rafales weren't the variant where they can carry Meteor. So we don't know if we already upgraded them to F3R which can carry Meteor. The new deal is either 30 Rafales F3R or F4. Egypt needs to enhanced her aviation capabilities because we need to replace old MIG-21 J-7 Mirage Alpha Jet K-8. Egypt produces locally Alpha Jet K-8, so we need to replace them with a LIFT aircraft that will make our pilots changing swiftly from trainer aircraft to high advanced aircrafts like Rafales Mirage 2K F-16 and MIG-29 (and maybe SU-35, Eurofighter Typhoon or F-15). We made auction or test for which country they give us the best ToT but the quality of the aircrafts. So Pakistan offered JF-17 Thunder, India the HAL Tejas, South Korea lately the FA/T50 aircraft and I think also the MIG-35 or YAK-130. But something happened maybe Pakistan didn't offer the things that we need so Pakistan got "eliminated" from the competition. So now there is advanced talks between us and India and SK. Even the Indian MoD will visit later this month to continue the talks and our air force commander visited HAL facilities (for helicopters and aircrafts.
The question is why you can get ToTs for you but not us. To demand ToT isn't idiotic because you got a lot of assistance from South Africa and China which changed entirely your defense industry.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Why not Egypt? You people desperately needs an effective long range BVR and not getting any Meteor or AIM120 despites having Rafale and F16s. A shameful aspect on part of suppliers but You can easily get PL15E and PL10E here if you forego your idiotic absolute TOT insistance.

whereas whenever you mention JF-17 ,imagine what comes in mind for a potential Middle Eastern buyer?
needy and desperate Pakistanis working in the middle east at the bottom of the society and rest of Pakistan filled with disease, desperate Pakistanis suffering hunger, floods, terrorism and incompetent authorities.

it seems like they (Arabs including Egypt) consider JF17 too low for their standards. they would rather settle for a watered down Western Jet because the external beauty and the brand name is enough to give them a hard on.

 

[Ghostkiller]

it seems like they (Arabs including Egypt) consider JF17 too low for their standards. they would rather settle for a watered down Western Jet because the external beauty and the brand name is enough to give them a hard on.

Egypt doesn't work like this. When we buy an aircraft, we buy it for a purpose and not for showing to the world that we got an expensive aircraft. Maybe other arab countries who has the money but even them they don't do this. Look at KSA and UAE, they have F-15 EFT Rafales Mirage 2K not for being arrogant to buy them. They have a great air force.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I pity the fools who thought that Block III is doomed without Russian engines. China needs WS-13 as intermediary power plant not only for J-35, but also for drones like GJ-11. It is not vaporware, and this report from Argentina Air Force proves it.

Personally I'm looking forward to and hoping WS19 would be ready in the next 5 years or so. I can see PAF switching to WS19 from RD93(when JF17s go through MLU)...as it will be a substantial upgrade(compared to switching RD93 with WS13).

 

[MH.Yang]

Agreed exactly.... seems money problem and other issues such as CAATSA.... J10 will be a greatest choice if they can afford...

The Argentinian military did hope that J-10C would participate in the bidding at first, but China only provided JF-17. Not only Argentina, but also China refused Sudan's request to buy J-10C.

The J-10C is one of the main fighters in China. Until the two countries have established sufficient trust, China will not sell the J-10C lightly.

 

[Cookie Monster]

whereas whenever you mention JF-17 ,imagine what comes in mind for a potential Middle Eastern buyer?
needy and desperate Pakistanis working in the middle east at the bottom of the society and rest of Pakistan filled with disease, desperate Pakistanis suffering hunger, floods, terrorism and incompetent authorities.

it seems like they (Arabs including Egypt) consider JF17 too low for their standards. they would rather settle for a watered down Western Jet because the external beauty and the brand name is enough to give them a hard on.

While I agree to a certain extent about the image being a thing. U must also consider from other perspectives...
...militaries around the world go for time tested products from established companies(or countries) that have a long history of making some defense product as opposed to a new-ish player in the market...
...it mitigates risk as opposed to trusting something new. It plays well with other equipment(possibly sourced from that same established source) and makes training easier as ur personnel are already used to the older equipment from that source. So basically any country that has the financial means to afford such things...sticks with field tested products with established names. U will see hardly any country throwing millions at some relatively "new" product when it comes to defense needs.

Slowly..over time...as JF17 gains more recognition through exports and service in countries like Myanmar, Nigeria, possibly Argentina and others...it will change the perception and more countries(like those in the middle east) might be willing to give it a go.

 

[Tameem]

whereas whenever you mention JF-17 ,imagine what comes in mind for a potential Middle Eastern buyer?
needy and desperate Pakistanis working in the middle east at the bottom of the society and rest of Pakistan filled with disease, desperate Pakistanis suffering hunger, floods, terrorism and incompetent authorities.

it seems like they (Arabs including Egypt) consider JF17 too low for their standards. they would rather settle for a watered down Western Jet because the external beauty and the brand name is enough to give them a hard on.

There might be another catch here Irfan. Pakistan too due to Turkish ties would reluctant to offer direct dealings and after sale service specially with regards to JF17-B3 and not very enthusiast about it.

China not operator of Thunder, cannot replace Pakistan in this regards.

 

[MH.Yang]

coming back to the main story, I cant help but wonder

does Argentina have the sufficient financial sources to fund such military acquisition? when it is reported that its not doing very well on the economic front?
countries that do have sufficient funds and some and have had good chance to evaluate JF-17 go for Western platforms (almost all middle eastern Arrab countries).

and those who do settle for JF-17 are those who are already struggling. its a shame there are extremes on both ends of the scale. there are no moderate middle countries that a light weight jet like JF17 can attract.

Chinese military forum has some news that Argentines can provide beef, corn and soybeans.

 

[MH.Yang]

There is a chance that we will get the Meteor in the new Rafale deal because old rafales weren't the variant where they can carry Meteor. So we don't know if we already upgraded them to F3R which can carry Meteor. The new deal is either 30 Rafales F3R or F4. Egypt needs to enhanced her aviation capabilities because we need to replace old MIG-21 J-7 Mirage Alpha Jet K-8. Egypt produces locally Alpha Jet K-8, so we need to replace them with a LIFT aircraft that will make our pilots changing swiftly from trainer aircraft to high advanced aircrafts like Rafales Mirage 2K F-16 and MIG-29 (and maybe SU-35, Eurofighter Typhoon or F-15). We made auction or test for which country they give us the best ToT but the quality of the aircrafts. So Pakistan offered JF-17 Thunder, India the HAL Tejas, South Korea lately the FA/T50 aircraft and I think also the MIG-35 or YAK-130. But something happened maybe Pakistan didn't offer the things that we need so Pakistan got "eliminated" from the competition. So now there is advanced talks between us and India and SK. Even the Indian MoD will visit later this month to continue the talks and our air force commander visited HAL facilities (for helicopters and aircrafts.
The question is why you can get ToTs for you but not us. To demand ToT isn't idiotic because you got a lot of assistance from South Africa and China which changed entirely your defense industry.

Pakistan has invested in JF-17, not TOT. It is an aircraft jointly developed by China and Pakistan.