What's new

Are we seeing the reemergence of Soviet Union?

globall

FULL MEMBER

New Recruit

Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
28
Reaction score
0
With Ukraine back in the fold of mother Russia and with Russia already talking of a customs union with Belarus (with which it also talked a lot about a federal union in recent past) and Kazakhstan, Ukraine being the last piece in the puzzle to Russia's creating first a customs union later economic and thereafter a political union, a new Soviet Union, a federation based not on communism but free market but going to be a single party dictatorship this time the United Party. Do you think Russia is moving in that direction? And so with a new union would it become a superpower again on equal footing of that of the United States? :undecided:
 
.
Russia was always a good nation just western media made it into something it was not and with unjust sanctions , now Russia is stronger then ever and I feel our nation should cooperate with Russia as they are more reliable vs US
 
.
good for Russia but i don't think they will ever regain their former glory.

Future is for China.
 
.
Nope !
SCO can become a regional power sort of entity in next 10 years, but not any USSR (hypothetical). SCO future also lies how the CIS states and middle east shape up in next 10 years. If there is political stability, economic development and inclusion of IRAN, PAKISTAN AND INDIA in SCO fold, then it will be a tremendous boost and then it may be on par with NATO. USSR is dead! It will not rise from its grave ever again!

Fighter
 
.
With Ukraine back in the fold of mother Russia and with Russia already talking of a customs union with Belarus (with which it also talked a lot about a federal union in recent past) and Kazakhstan, Ukraine being the last piece in the puzzle to Russia's creating first a customs union later economic and thereafter a political union, a new Soviet Union, a federation based not on communism but free market but going to be a single party dictatorship this time the United Party. Do you think Russia is moving in that direction? And so with a new union would it become a superpower again on equal footing of that of the United States?


Too early to project any such possibilities with almost zero level of growth in that direction. Today's world isn't the same as it used to be in Cold War. It is more diverse and multi-lateral. Russia doesn't currently have a tenth of the military muscle and wealth it had during the era of USSR.

Even if we hypothetically say that the Soviet Empire returns, it won't hold the same awe and power as it used to in yesteryears since China is growing at a fast rate and expanding its military and so is India. Apart from that, Brazil and infact the entire BRIC group is rising together while United States is stagnant in those terms.

Even if Soviet Union emerges which is impossible, it will have a next-door competitor in the form of China who in turn will have a competitor in the form of India, therefore creating a multi-lateral world.

Russia was always a good nation just western media made it into something it was not and with unjust sanctions , now Russia is stronger then ever and I feel our nation should cooperate with Russia as they are more reliable vs US

Are you sure you want to say that, friend? Your arch-rival in the region is Moscow's closest ally and bosom friend, which even as many analysts wrongly predicted during the New Delhi's "Gorshkov hiatus" would end their friendship, has infact strongly re-bounded with even more vigorous defense deals and economic ties in spheres such as nuclear energy cooperation, a north-south corridor project connecting Indian Ocean with Russia via surface, etc. Their relations are more than 5 decades old and the kind of ties they have had is much different than what Pakistan has had with the United States.

Russians might have become a bit more business minded in these years, but after reading numerous articles, analysis and even consulting some of my colleagues in strategy analysis, it is clear that neither the Russians nor the Indians are going to ever leave each other in the foreseeable future. IMO it would take more than a dozen defense deals between United States and the Indians to move them away from their 5-decade-old ally. You might want to therefore re-think about your statement.

Also, the much-debated-here revival of Soviet Union would re-kindle the intimacy of yesteryears' romance between Moscow and Delhi, meaning even more stronger relationship that the current one which is already at peak. This could also mean revival of old sentiments and grudges and judging by what your government did against them alongside NATO, you might want to wish that USSR never re-emerges (no offense intended).


As of a neutral country, I would advise you to stick to the country that you feel so closely allied to, which after coming here I feel is essentially China.
 
.
Are you sure you want to say that, friend?
Moscow was never our enemy, we made it our enemy in the love of the USA and the West. Throughout the 50s and in the early 60s, the India-USSR relationships were not extremely cordial as India was a leader of the Non-Align Movement. With the same token, USSR was not the enemy of Pakistan but when our imposed rulers aligned themselves with the anti-communist capitalist West/USA, and signed up useless treaties such as SEATO/CENTO, and allowed the US to operate U-2 spy planes from Pakistani soil, only than the former USSR started taking us her enemy. Even than, Moscow helped us erect our first and only Steel Mill complex (Pakistan Steel) in 70s during the time of PM Bhutto. As soon as the Dictator Zia overthrew the Bhutto's democratically elected government, we fell back in the lap of the USA and got ourself involved in the US's proxy war against the Soviet Union in the Afghanistan. This is mind boggling that our ignorant rulers (with the exception of Mr. Bhutto) never worked on improving relations with a geographically close and a mighty power and decided to sleep with a faraway and extremely unreliable USA.
 
.
I think strategic relations with Russia should be looked at again , they are more reliable allies - they don't change their forige polices often and they have similar stance on Palestine and other world issues like iran thru peace efforts

But US keeps building missile sheild around Russia what are they suppose to do
 
.
Moscow was never our enemy, we made it our enemy in the love of the USA and the West. Throughout the 50s and in the early 60s, the India-USSR relationships were not extremely cordial as India was a leader of the Non-Align Movement. With the same token, USSR was not the enemy of Pakistan but when our imposed rulers aligned themselves with the anti-communist capitalist West/USA, and signed up useless treaties such as SEATO/CENTO, and allowed the US to operate U-2 spy planes from Pakistani soil, only than the former USSR started taking us her enemy. Even than, Moscow helped us erect our first and only Steel Mill complex (Pakistan Steel) in 70s during the time of PM Bhutto. As soon as the Dictator Zia overthrew the Bhutto's democratically elected government, we fell back in the lap of the USA and got ourself involved in the US's proxy war against the Soviet Union in the Afghanistan. This is mind boggling that our ignorant rulers (with the exception of Mr. Bhutto) never worked on improving relations with a geographically close and a mighty power and decided to sleep with a faraway and extremely unreliable USA.

Perhaps Zia balked at the Soviets due to the collective experience of the Daoud and Taraki-Amin regime next door OR he may have been dissuaded by the poor economic state of East Germany and other Soviet allies after all the Soviets provided very little in terms of trade and other economic benefits (ask the Indians). Had Pakistan allied with the Soviets in the late 70’s it may have likely resulted in the balkanization of Pakistan by India, Iran and USSR.
 
.
^ Interesting, some analyst and historians have suggested if Afghanistan were to be firmly held by Moscow, Soviet Union and had they succeeded in their war effort, Pakistan was next.

With the same token, USSR was not the enemy of Pakistan but when our imposed rulers aligned themselves with the anti-communist capitalist West/USA.

Nor was it friendly, in fact I do consider the Soviet Union a threat, it was an imperialistic, Communism expansionist agenda, and brutal regime. To suggest they were not an enemy of Pakistan is naive, because, and I once read the Soviet Union did actually send fighter jets into Pakistan's air space which later the PAF shot down all of them, their presence and intentions in Pakistan Airspace is inconclusive. Yes one can say this was in response to Pakistan's support and backing of Mujahideen forces fighting the Soviet Army.

The Soviet Union could have posed a problem for us later, if they weren't our enemies in the 1980's I think they would have been in the 90's. Besides, how would you have liked to live next to Soviet-Afghanistan. It wouldn't be surprising if Soviets had succeeded that we would have Russian-speakers in Afghanistan and possibly our tribal belt.

It's also possible the SU would support Communist rebels and militants against Pakistan, supporting a communist militia a "mujahideen" of their own...

It's also possible they would have respected Pakistan's sovereignty and understood Pakistan is no Afghanistan and the Pakistan military with or without the backing of other allies can upset and defeat them, giving them a reason to end their expansion and limited to Afghanistan as far as SW/S-Asia is concerned.

Defeating the SU in my opinion was the right thing to do, we helped liberate many people around the world who had lived under Soviet tyranny, this ought to be a sense of dignity and pride for Pakistan, that we contributed and played a major role in defeating one of the world's "Super Powers".
 
Last edited:
.
India, Russia to step up strategic ties

NEW DELHI: In a series of high level interactions, Russia and India on Tuesday decided to firm up two major pacts — on nuclear energy and a fifth generation fighter plane — in time for Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin’s visit in March. They also resolved to step up trade ties and develop closer cooperation in the energy sector.

This emerged during meetings between visiting Russian Deputy Prime Minister and India pointman Sergei Sobyanin with Union Ministers S.M. Krishna, Anand Sharma, Murli Deora, A.K. Antony besides National Security Advisor Shiv Shanker Menon and Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister T.K.K. Nair on Monday and Tuesday.

Mr. Sobyanin also called on Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and gave an overview of Russia’s perspective of bilateral relations with India. The discussions with Dr. Singh and members of his Cabinet were aimed at preparing for Mr. Putin’s forthcoming mid-March official visit , said a Russian Embassy statement.

Both countries expect to reach an agreement on Indian participation in the development and manufacturing of the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) with stealth characteristics, which made its maiden test flight last month. The two sides will first agree on the technical design which will be followed by discussions on monetary and Indian expertise contribution to by India in the project. Analysts expect the FGFA to give the Indian Air Force an edge in the skies along with the Sukhoi-30 MKI and the soon-to-be-acquired 126 fighters of medium class.

Leading the defence talks, first deputy head of the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation, Alexander Fomin, also touched on the other five Indo-Russian projects in this sector including more supplies of Sukhoi-30 MKI, T-90 tanks and Mig-29 fighters.

Heading the talks in the civil nuclear arena, chief of the Russian Federal Agency for Atomic Energy, Sergei Kirienko, discussed the prospects of further cooperation. Both sides have agreed to set up more nuclear reactors in Kudankulam and discussions are continuing on sourcing more reactors for the existing site and the new site in West Bengal, offered by the Indian government.

The Indo-Russia umbrella nuclear agreement that covers much more ground as compared to pacts signed with other countries, was initialled during Dr. Singh’s visit to Moscow in December last year and the interlocutors are confident of signing it during Mr. Putin’s visit.


link: The Hindu : Front Page : India, Russia to step up strategic ties
 
.
I think strategic relations with Russia should be looked at again , they are more reliable allies - they don't change their forige polices often and they have similar stance on Palestine and other world issues like iran thru peace efforts

But US keeps building missile sheild around Russia what are they suppose to do

remind you that russia just turn their support away from not to sanction iran to warn sanction on iran, do u think this kinda ''ally'' can be trusted at the moment of emergency when u really in need of its help??? russia just made some deal with usa to benefit russia itself and abandon its original stance....
 
.
USSR could never have been a true friend to Pakistan. Their strategic interests lay with India since they both shared a common, strong enemy in China.

As for Russia, it remains to be seen how their relationship with EU and China pans out. Since the EU desperately wants to asserts its independence from US, they may be welcoming towards Russia, and Russia may look westwards.

On the other hand, both Russia and China have a common interest in keeping the West in check and promoting the rise of Asia.

The fact is that India's government has been far more adept at diplomacy and statesmanship than Pakistan's. Perhaps it comes from electing leaders who are actually qualified to run the country, instead of just electing someone because of their family or party connections.
 
.
One can't over look the fact that the Russians helped us setup Steeles Mills in Pakistan - which is a top Pakistan Industrial power

So clearly may be our energy crisis answer lies with Russians , and Chinese and Iranian initiatives for energy .....

We just got a silly RC top scan eagle from Americas - and frankly speaking average Pakistai people are fed up with these double standards, I say let there be greater cooperation between Russia/Pakistan.

One thing is 100% clear - same discrimination that went aroud Soviet time , is going around now just the titles have cheanged.

Cooperation with Russians in Space programs and fighter planes would be an ideal process.

And the biggest plus is that Russia+ China + Pakistan we sorta all get along very well ..........and are close geographicall
 
.
I think strategic relations with Russia should be looked at again , they are more reliable allies - they don't change their forige polices often and they have similar stance on Palestine and other world issues like iran thru peace efforts

But US keeps building missile sheild around Russia what are they suppose to do

Thats precisely why it wont work between Russia and Pakistan
 
.
interesting question.. Would pakistan have accepted a 3rd party mediation from USSR or Russia on Kashmir.. That is if India was ok with 3rd party mediation?
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom