Are Pakistani Security forces & Intelligence even capable of dealing with Talibans & other threats??

[usernameless]

Well we can now see why Turkey is not in the shit*bucket. Well I said my Turkish friend. If you have spare Kemal Ataturk do please export him to Pakistan because we badly need one.

No,sadly the state does not organize the religious education or institutions. What we have done in Pakistan is allow any degenerate, mostly the retarded types to sprout a beard, preferably have no education and then sell his a*ss to outside countries like Saudia Arabia or Iran who then sponsor these people to spout hatred and misogny. In any other country these animals who every day preach death and hate would be arrested and put in prison. Here our government is too scared of them.

The result is every year more and more people are catching the cancer. So as you so very well said you need to "kill the reason" in Pakistan is reason is allowed to be multiplied mostly in the madaris that government has little or no control over.

Edit: Do please tell Pakistani's here how your government keeps a grip on the Mullahs.

Turkey is in the same boat as Pakistan. We have the pkk problem. These terrorists too attack and burn schools and mosques in the south east, so that they can keep their fellow Kurds uneducated, thus easier to brainwash them with their pkk marxist ideology. Killing 1000 pkk or taliban terrorists now is kind of useless if the fundamental issues are not addressed and will persist in the future for new generations to come.

If it is really 'that easy' to preach your own version/interpretation in Pakistan, then I'm not surprised that such retarded taliban fools exist. Did or does the Pakistani govt have any plans for reforms regarding madrassas or those 'scholars'?

In Turkey there is an institution called 'Diyanet'. They are part of the govt and basically their task is to keep the way religion is taught and preached 'streamlined' and under control. For example, if you visit a mosque and the imam is clearly spreading hate, you can contact the Diyanet and they will take care of that imam (probably he will be stripped of his function and maybe also face arrestment, not exactly sure what the consequences are). Another example, most of the mosques run by Turks in Europe (maybe elsewhere in the world too) are also under the control of the same Diyanet. So every imam is registered and certificated by them, which leaves little space to hateful imposters/fake imams. I know from real life experience that many mosques of the other muslims (especially Moroccans) in Europe do not have such an institution above them, which may lead to some leaks of hateful imams in those mosques. If such an institution does not exist in Pakistan, i think having one would be beneficial in curbing extremism to a degree.

@RAMPAGE @Atanz @Pakistani till death
Thank you all for the replies. It's saddening to get to know to what an extent it has come to. Blaming the security forces & intelligence seems out of place and unjustified since what they are doing now seems like mopping the floor while the water tap stays open, which needs to be closed by the higher ups in the govt for once and all. If it is proven that some/many madrassas are faulty and that a good portion of those donating foreigners are bad intentioned, then is it that hard for the Pakistani govt to take measures? Or is there too much opposition and maybe other factors to carry out such measures?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Turkey is in the same boat as Pakistan. We have the pkk problem. These terrorists too attack and burn schools and mosques in the south east, so that they can keep their fellow Kurds uneducated, thus easier to brainwash them with their pkk marxist ideology. Killing 1000 pkk or taliban terrorists now is kind of useless if the fundamental issues are not addressed and will persist in the future for new generations to come.

If it is really 'that easy' to preach your own version/interpretation in Pakistan, then I'm not surprised that such retarded taliban fools exist. Did or does the Pakistani govt have any plans for reforms regarding madrassas or those 'scholars'?

In Turkey there is an institution called 'Diyanet'. They are part of the govt and basically their task is to keep the way religion is taught and preached 'streamlined' and under control. For example, if you visit a mosque and the imam is clearly spreading hate, you can contact the Diyanet and they will take care of that imam (probably he will be stripped of his function and maybe also face arrestment, not exactly sure what the consequences are). Another example, most of the mosques run by Turks in Europe (maybe elsewhere in the world too) are also under the control of the same Diyanet. So every imam is registered and certificated by them, which leaves little space to hateful imposters/fake imams. I know from real life experience that many mosques of the other muslims (especially Moroccans) in Europe do not have such an institution above them, which may lead to some leaks of hateful imams in those mosques. If such an institution does not exist in Pakistan, i think having one would be beneficial in curbing extremism to a degree.

I know. I did some reading on Turkey because I wanted to know how Turkey was immune from this problem. The problem in Pakistan is our government did not do this we had the oppurtunity in the 50s,60s and even 70s. After 1980 American's in conjunction with Pakistan used these Madaris to make radicals to fight against Soviet Russian inside Afghanistan. From 1979 to 1989 when the Soviet Russians were defeated and left Afghanistan the madaris were openly allowed to preach and spread Saudi Salafism.

The Saudi joined in to sponsor the madaris so they could spread wahabism, the American CIA trained the radical students of these madaris who went to fight in the jihad against Russians in Afghanistan. First most of the madaris only took Afghan students but by 1989 the number of madaris increased by 10 times and some of them had 1,000s of students. These had been turned by CIA help into jihad factories.

After 1989 the American's left but the infrastructure of jihad was left and no government in Pakistan has seriously taken the issue head on to dismantle this. Now the problem has got so big that our reputation in the world has been destroyed. There is now some effort being put into taking them on but they have become like a frankenstien monster that also has cousins in Afghanistan.

Of course we need strong leader to take on these people head on. The army is involved in operations near the Afghan border but like you said we can't kill them all. We have to kill the reason and the reason is the madaris from 1980s most sponsored by Saudia. They need dismantling and then the problem will be capped. However easier said then done.

Source of problem when the seed was planted. There is a Hollywood movie "Charlie Wilson's war" with Tom Hanks about this.

Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read this:CRG -- The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan

We definitly got some radicalized jihadis in Pakistan "Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today"

Thank you Mr Zbigniew Brzezinski.

 

[usernameless]

I know. I did some reading on Turkey because I wanted to know how Turkey was immune from this problem. The problem in Pakistan is our government did not do this we had the oppurtunity in the 50s,60s and even 70s. After 1980 American's in conjunction with Pakistan used these Madaris to make radicals to fight against Soviet Russian inside Afghanistan. From 1979 to 1989 when the Soviet Russians were defeated and left Afghanistan the madaris were openly allowed to preach and spread Saudi Salafism.

The Saudi joined in to sponsor the madaris so they could spread wahabism, the American CIA trained the radical students of these madaris who went to fight in the jihad against Russians in Afghanistan. First most of the madaris only took Afghan students but by 1989 the number of madaris increased by 10 times and some of them had 1,000s of students. These had been turned by CIA help into jihad factories.

After 1989 the American's left but the infrastructure of jihad was left and no government in Pakistan has seriously taken the issue head on to dismantle this. Now the problem has got so big that our reputation in the world has been destroyed. There is now some effort being put into taking them on but they have become like a frankenstien monster that also has cousins in Afghanistan.

Of course we need strong leader to take on these people head on. The army is involved in operations near the Afghan border but like you said we can't kill them all. We have to kill the reason and the reason is the madaris from 1980s most sponsored by Saudia. They need dismantling and then the problem will be capped. However easier said then done.

Source of problem when the seed was planted. There is a Hollywood movie "Charlie Wilson's war" with Tom Hanks about this.

Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read this:CRG -- The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan

We definitly got some radicalized jihadis in Pakistan "Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today"

Thank you Mr Zbigniew Brzezinski.

Very informative, thank you brother. Will read the links now.

 

[Zarvan]

I know we all love our security forces and intelligence but lets for a moment put love affairs and patriotism aside, and think rationally, i'm by no means in any mood to troll rather being extremely serious here..



Pakistan has been in a turmoil for almost a decade now.. We can't go a month without a savage attack.. What are the security forces and intelligence upto?? Why they have failed miserably to protect the lives of its citizens??


Over 50,000 Pakistanis have died by now, When will this all end?? No body is certain when the next attack will happen.. It can happen anytime, anywhere..

The security forces have FAILED completely to protect us from such threats, I'm having serious doubts about their capabilities to counter such threats..


Why they haven't been able to intercept soo many terrorist attacks which happened??? Why terrorists can Attack and kill people in broad day light and flee from the seen, most have NEVER been caught..

WHY???


When will we admit that our security forces and intelligence are incompetent and of no use and we need to modify or strengthen them to counter such threats??


How much more bloodshed does it need for us to admit it??


Our intelligence itself was involved in training these Taliban outfits and arming them for years, and now they have turned up against Pakistan and we are bearing the fruits of it..

though one thing I don't understand. Lets say RAW is involved. Doesn't that make the PAK army and govt even more responsible and be a source of humiliation and shame that another country can wreak havoc in your country with such consummate ease whereas you stand helpless without being able to do anything



PS: Remember: Denial is the worst form of the truth..

When you would admit you are full of crap with nothing positive to say Pakistan and its forces are fully capable of taking on militancy and we are on verge of completely defeating MQM and TTP and BLA only a little time and it would be done INSHALLAH. In next phase war will be taken in India. @M.SAAD

 

[Yousafzai_M]

Hi,

The question that you posed, itself display the length of ignorance you have gone to ask it.

Since youre so keen to mention on the attack that the forces were not able to defend, could you please mention the number of attacks that have been thwarted? If not they could have wreak even more havoc. You will never find such data to suggest as such , because it doesn't exist. Learn to appreciate.

Now lets start from the grass root level, We are a nation that is in state of war Something that we dont realize.
Pakistan is a battleground for two different ideologies. One from sick minded Mullah and another from Al saud who thinks that just because Makka and madina happens to be in his captured land he is the legal custodian of that.

Having said that we have die hard supporters of both of these ideologies amidst ourselves, Oh did i forget to mention the Third Ignorant idelogogy? the new mom batti i guess as theyre known, without a single knowledge of religion and national history, these so called liberals have also their opinion to say such as the likes of Jehagnir and mir.

When you say completely (with your ignorance) that would amount to something like total breakdown of law and order, something like jungle land or Somalia land for that matter(no disrespect intended), If that were the case then you wouldnt be able to write this you would be dead by now with vultures all over your carcass.

What we need to admit is the fact that snakes like liberals, extremists mullahs have caused more destruction. What we need to ask oursleves when our boys bleed in scorching heat in the valley of waziristan. How can we allow people like red devil mullah of lal masjid to be accepted as Mullah, Hell the guy was running in Burqa.

Sadly, die hard sheeps are still ready to lay their pathetic life for him, to me him and his supporters are no different.

Secondly, the so called parha likha tabqa that is literate but not educated, You can see them on Tribune blogs. supporting gayism and what not, Listening to Western music bare tryina act like one, and then speaking the very same language against our boys like usually these westerners do.

As long as our nation remain divided on the issue of who the real enemy is we will face these attacks, in time we will emerge even stronger and this nation will endure, for pete sake its just been 60 years or so. Thanks to our neighbour 6 times our size and and unstable neighbour and with another neighbour that suffers from deep inferiority complex issues. I

I believe our boys have done commendable job, Its is very easy to sit back relax and blab about it, but it takes a whole lot of MAN to go out there fight for what you stand for and lay down your life.
When you get anything close to it, then please criticise. Otherwise people will just label you as another attention seeking wh^re.

so now you tell me where do you stand and what can you do for the country? I mean you havent even displayed your flags, yet you have the audacity to criticize my boys! Who have done literally everything to save this nation of ungrateful and hypocritical people.

Both Mullah and liberals for that matter can be easily bought for few hundred K's in dollars

One of the nicest posts I have read, thank you.

 

[salarsikander]

One of the nicest posts I have read, thank you.

Hi,
I'm very humbled by your appreciation sir, feeling glad that my post was worth your time

 

[Yousafzai_M]

Security and Intelligence is a thankless profession, everyone knows your failures but no one knows your successes because if it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead. If you believe that these attacks have been happening because he security forces are not doing anything, or are not able to do anything in accordance with your argument then you severely underestimate the scale of the problem we have.
After the attack, have you been watching the story develop on social media? There is massive support for the attack from all circles that justify it either as an attack on Shia or those who are completely clueless and consider the Ismaelis to be a branch of Ahmediya and therefore seek to justify any efforts to cull them.
We are living in a country where we have a prospective brigade of these beasts living among us, in our own localities, thousands are arrested and yet millions remain. Its not as much a security failure as it is a social failure.
Then of course there is the little issue being that we are a nation at war, yet we have the laws that seem hell bent on offering civil liberties to the most undesirable elements of society, many of the attackers and facilitators are people who have been produced before courts in the past and have been let off, what more can security agencies do? Killing them without producing them in court also leads to an uproar. In essence, our security apparatus isn't just fighting the terrorists and their sympathizers, it is also fighting the gullibility of our own people who think of this scum as human.

Another heart-touching post. Thank you. I wish I had the same ability to put my thoughts down in words !

 

[Leader]

I know we all love our security forces and intelligence but lets for a moment put love affairs and patriotism aside, and think rationally, i'm by no means in any mood to troll rather being extremely serious here..



Pakistan has been in a turmoil for almost a decade now.. We can't go a month without a savage attack.. What are the security forces and intelligence upto?? Why they have failed miserably to protect the lives of its citizens??


Over 50,000 Pakistanis have died by now, When will this all end?? No body is certain when the next attack will happen.. It can happen anytime, anywhere..

The security forces have FAILED completely to protect us from such threats, I'm having serious doubts about their capabilities to counter such threats..


Why they haven't been able to intercept soo many terrorist attacks which happened??? Why terrorists can Attack and kill people in broad day light and flee from the seen, most have NEVER been caught..

WHY???


When will we admit that our security forces and intelligence are incompetent and of no use and we need to modify or strengthen them to counter such threats??


How much more bloodshed does it need for us to admit it??


Our intelligence itself was involved in training these Taliban outfits and arming them for years, and now they have turned up against Pakistan and we are bearing the fruits of it..

though one thing I don't understand. Lets say RAW is involved. Doesn't that make the PAK army and govt even more responsible and be a source of humiliation and shame that another country can wreak havoc in your country with such consummate ease whereas you stand helpless without being able to do anything



PS: Remember: Denial is the worst form of the truth..

what kind of twat thread is this... how ridiculous, get a life loser.

 

[I.R.A]

what kind of twat thread is this... how ridiculous, get a life loser.

Usual PTI youth. If you cannot answer his questions, then at least refrain from throwing personal insults at him. He has each and every right to ask these questions who the hell are you to stop him. Extremist.

 

[Leader]

Usual PTI youth. If you cannot answer his questions, then at least refrain from throwing personal insults at him. He has each and every right to ask these questions who the hell are you to stop him. Extremist.

oh shut up you typical patwari.. and yes get lost you too before speaking up against Pakistan Army.

 

[I.R.A]

oh shut up you typical patwari.. and yes get lost you too before speaking up against Pakistan Army.

I am no Patwari, why you forget that man I am "Awam" no jiyala, karkun or dancing tabdeeli razakar just simple plain awam.

And for speaking up against Pakistan Army you know what I am going to burn my brother's new uniform, hell I would burn my Bro in Law's uniform as well, stop me if you can

 

[Leader]

I am no Patwari, why you forget that man I am "Awam" no jiyala, karkun or dancing tabdeeli razakar just simple plain awam.

And for speaking up against Pakistan Army you know what I am going to burn my brother's new uniform, hell I would burn my Bro in Law's uniform as well, stop me if you can

you are patwari then, most of them deny being so...

dare to burn uniform, baki tera bhai hi teri tabiyat saad kar dae ga... I wont be needed to fix you.

 

[I.R.A]

I think it is time we had compulsory national service for one year. This would instill discipline, help to foster nationalism, the force could act as secondary back up to situations like national emergency. Also it could be used to do various work in the country like help teaching in remote parts of the country or building roads, houses etc. It would also instill the importance of physical education in our people.

Uncle you have passed this age so please let youth of Pakistan decide for themselves, it is a mess created by your corrupt generation that we are facing today. If your generation had some sense in it they would have made Pakistan a leading economy and not a hell hole. Let the youth sort out problems created by your generation, and please if you have to suggest something just ask your age fellows to stop dreaming of becoming PM of Pakistan again and again. In fact one of the morons "Qaim Ali Shah" is even an uncle to you by his age. ALLAH ALLAH karo uncle aur jan choro iss kursi ki let the youth of Pakistan take over, enough of your experience sharing.

you are patwari then, most of them deny being so...

Okay I voted for the first time in my life and that too for an idiot called Imran Khan , Kasam say sachi muchi jhoot nai bol raha, bohat phada hua tha iss pay mayray gao may.

dare to burn uniform, baki tera bhai hi teri tabiyat saad kar dae ga... I wont be needed to fix you.

Yeah he knows it very well, its my tax money that provides for his salary and hence his uniform.

 

[I.R.A]

I agree with you. The govt should/must have a hand in those madrassas as well to ensure that no or as little hate preaching imams or teachers gets through. In the worst case (or 'rather taking no risk' case) the govt could shut them down and force all children to attend schools, but, as i am not a Pakistani, I don't know well how people and children who are in favor of these madrassas might react. Besides, is it true that some of those madrasses are sponsored by foreigners as it is claimed on this forum? If yes, that is even more worrisome.

People don't send their children to Madrassahs on their own planning, they have no choice. Madrassahs offer food and shelter for one (in some cases more than one) family member. Which in turn lowers the burden on the pockets of already suffering families. The other choice in Pakistan that they have is Child Labor. Government of Pakistan irrespective of whichever party is ruling never had its priorities right. Facilities for Education and Medical support for poor is the least of these priorities, which favors the current political systems and politicians because sheep don't think before casting their vote and electing honest people to govern them.

 

[B@KH]

I know we all love our security forces and intelligence but lets for a moment put love affairs and patriotism aside, and think rationally, i'm by no means in any mood to troll rather being extremely serious here..
Pakistan has been in a turmoil for almost a decade now.. We can't go a month without a savage attack.. What are the security forces and intelligence upto?? Why they have failed miserably to protect the lives of its citizens??
Over 50,000 Pakistanis have died by now, When will this all end?? No body is certain when the next attack will happen.. It can happen anytime, anywhere..
The security forces have FAILED completely to protect us from such threats, I'm having serious doubts about their capabilities to counter such threats..
Why they haven't been able to intercept soo many terrorist attacks which happened??? Why terrorists can Attack and kill people in broad day light and flee from the seen, most have NEVER been caught..
WHY???
When will we admit that our security forces and intelligence are incompetent and of no use and we need to modify or strengthen them to counter such threats??
How much more bloodshed does it need for us to admit it??
Our intelligence itself was involved in training these Taliban outfits and arming them for years, and now they have turned up against Pakistan and we are bearing the fruits of it..
though one thing I don't understand. Lets say RAW is involved. Doesn't that make the PAK army and govt even more responsible and be a source of humiliation and shame that another country can wreak havoc in your country with such consummate ease whereas you stand helpless without being able to do anything
PS: Remember: Denial is the worst form of the truth..

Good Query and you yourself can see the replies of the countrymen.

I will put it in other way.

1. The institutions are very capable and can definitely ensure peace and security in country without any foreign assistance or interference.

2. >200 million nation with great capabilities is among very few nations in the world. I count it among top 5 in terms of capabilities and dedication. some may oppose.

the Only reason of failures I have is that it is the Saudi wahabi lovers and monarchists does not allow this nation to progress and are running the country on alms, donations and loans to keep nation cowed.

There cannot be any other reason that could justify inaction against saudi wahabi madarasah politics.