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Are Muslims Better Off in Quaid-e-Azam M.A. Jinnah's Pakistan Today?

If you are happy then there is no need for you to stir up trouble on this thread.

The thread was started by a Pakistani comparing Indians and Pakistanis.

All the information provided by the OP is grossly biased and frankly wrong. Unless you call correcting (intentional) misinformation as stirring up trouble...

Uh, 'Taliban' collect more tax from NATO supplies in Afghanistan in 2 years as compared to the TOTAL 'wealth' of your great Shahrukh Khan he earned in DECADES. (Yes, Taliban in Afghanistan. I haven't even mentioned businessmen in Afghanistan. Forget about Pathans living in Pakistan. Some "Pathan" businessman of Pakistan can buy a shahrukh khan everyday for their massage. Baat krta hai..:lol: )

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hahaha..exactly.

Not the point I was trying to make.

FaujHistorian feels Pak is a better choice for him, good for him. Similarly there are Indian Muslims that feel India is a better choice for them. There are also Indians who might feel Pak is a better choice for them, and Pakistanis that might feel India is a better choice for them. Making sweeping statements like the ones he made is foolish to say the least.
 
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If India was bordered with Afghanistan, it would collapse. True story.
Just a figment of imagination.

You know what a true story means, a Muslim community who didn't want to live with Hindus, ended up discriminated, discarded and slaughtered by their own Muslim brothers and creation of new nation just after 24 years of Independence.

Jinnah wouldn't have thought ever that this might happen.
 
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Muslims would like to believe they are better off in Pak.

I agree only in as much as those who crossed over were better off maybe till the 80's not now . Since I am not a Muslim I do not consider myself capable of voicing opinions on Muslims beyond a point.

Post No 1 discusses statistics and figures both of which are subjective. What it does not bring out are the intangibles like sense of security, fear of the next blast, rise of fundamentalism, and general downturn in acceptability the world over. Poor branding of the Pak passport is also an issue.

Despite what may be said or felt, the creation of BD was / is a serious setback to the Pak dream. The sense of discrimination remains.

Punjabis still control Pak. The sentiment of Pak society towards non Punjabis is quite similar to that of most Punjabis in India . Marked by a sense of superiority, the need to do down others based on the colour of the skin and background - being non - Jitta is a serious thing for most Punjabis ( both sides) . Today, one sees Balochistan as the next BD unless things are corrected soon.

There is a thread running here on Pak in the 60's & 70's. Some resent what it was back then on religious grounds. They were not lesser Muslims than those who live in Pak today. Only they were more tolerant.

If I were a Musilim living in Pak, I would have been happy till Zia stepped in.
 
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I would say yes.

This article is a couple of months old, but relevant:

Indian Muslims pose as Hindus to get jobs


Wearing a burkha, 32-year-old Hasina Begum, shuffles along the platform of a railway station in Sonarpur, 30 kilometres south of the Indian city of Kolkata.

She ducks into a toilet stall on the platform and remerges a few moments later, transformed in a sari with vermillion powder on her forehead, and red and white conch bangles on her wrists - the symbols of a traditional, married Hindu woman.

Ms Begum is one of a number of India's 150 million Muslims who adopt Hindu identities to avoid discrimination in the workplace.

"For the the whole day I shall maintain this Hindu appearance. My name is Laxmi, you know it's also the name of the Hindu goddess," she says.

"Before leaving home I took off my armband on which 'Allah' is embossed and put on whatever a Hindu woman usually wears. I live in a Muslim village. Villagers will feel bad to see me with the symbols of a Hindu woman."

Ms Begum says she tried unsuccessfully to find a job for many years before deciding to hide her Muslim identity. Posing as a Hindu woman, she got her current job as an ayah (nursemaid) in a private hospital.

"Recently my hospital asked me to look for some girls to work there, but they asked me not to bring any Muslim candidate for the interview. If by chance they get to know that I am Muslim, I am sure I will be fired."

Secret recruitment policies

Muslims who adopt fake Hindu identities mostly work in menial jobs in sectors where identity documents are not usually sought.

Barin Ghosh managed a domestic help and ayah supply agency in Kolkata until recently and says many recruitment agencies help Muslims find jobs by introducing them as Hindu.

"Almost 95 percent of the clients in my agency were Hindu and while seeking domestic helps, as much as 80 per centof the Hindu clients informed us that they would not employ any Muslims," Mr Ghosh says.

"Muslims being poorer, more than half of the jobseekers coming to our agency were from this minority community. Sometimes we introduced Muslim jobseekers as Hindus to our Hindu clients and they got the jobs. I am sure many placement agencies on mutual interest maintain such secret policies to help Muslims get jobs."

Anti-Muslim bias

Muslims make up 13 percent of India's population and are the country's largest minority.

However, community leaders have long alleged that an anti-Muslim bias exists in different levels of society.

In 2005, the government appointed the Sachar Commission to investigate suggestions that Muslims were disadvantaged in social, economic and educational terms.

It concluded that the socioeconomic condition of most Muslims was worse than that of the dalits, or 'untouchables', the lowest of the Hindu castes.

Ayesha Pervez, a minority rights activist, says widespread workplace discrimination means Muslims are unable to upgrade their standard of living.

"It's not just in the unorganised sector where Muslim jobseekers face the hurdle of discrimination. Even in the government sector anti-Muslim discriminatory processes are thriving," she says.

"In West Bengal where Muslims constitute 27 percent of the population, their representation in government jobs is as low as four percent. Muslim participation is also extremely low in the private sector."

Muslims as untouchables

According to Prasenjit Biswas, a professor of philosophy at the North Eastern Hill University in Meghalaya, many Hindus count Muslims as untouchables.

He says that is at the root of the anti-Muslim discrimination in India.

"The anti-Muslim bias arises out of caste Hindu mindset of untouchability that considers Muslims as lesser than even the untouchables," he says.

"The specific reason in eastern India is the deep-seated fear that the proximity of Muslims in the interior household will not only pollute the household but would bring in bad omen."

Prof Biswas says although discriminating against Muslims is illegal, it is almost impossible for those affected to provide proof.

"So, they are forced to bear with this repressive system- in many cases by disguising themselves as Hindus, in attempt to seek work and live as equals in the society."

Indian Muslims pose as Hindus to get jobs - Australia Network News - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
 
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Now that is an interesting observation. So because you excelled more than your Muslim counterparts in India, suddenly that becomes a platform for your ridiculous assertion? I am sure Shah Rukh Khan would say the same thing about India's economic opportunities when compared to his Pathan brothers and sisters in KPK who are getting droned as we speak. Or the fact that his income (economic opportunities) is probably more than the entire population of all Pathans combined living in Pakistan.

Pakistan is officially an Islamic country made for Muslims, and has 97% Muslims in it. Of course all (or any) of the economic opportunities are going to fall for Muslims, who else is it going to fall to? Where is the competition from other religions?

Another point I would like to make is that did Bangladeshi Muslims get equal opportunities in Pakistan? Its interesting you bought up Altaf Hussain, while you might not agree with his views, he does represent the voices of a significant number of Mohajirs, who do have their grievances against the Pak establishment.


Goldstar, if you know me, then you will know I am not doing any kind of Islamism based analysis here.

As I said, given the same starting point of education (and our relatives were educated even in 1947), Pakistan definitely gave us much more opportunities.

The circle of Muslims our relatives belong to, do not sit around, spitting pawn and talking about Hindu-Muslim $hite either.

It is just a fact that they faced "discrimination" what you say "competition" for the last 60+ years. And thus they are lagging behind, even with their heroic efforts to work hard and be something in the Indian society.


Altaf mota chor bhatta khor is a vermin who sucks blood of my Urdu speaking people. Don't you see how fat he is?

And the ones following him are sickly pawn spitting moaners and complainers that I see in Bihar and UP as well.


Peace to you, peace to all, peace on earth.
 
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Pakistan hasn't conducted a census in over 15 years. All the stats coming out of Pakistan is at best a guesstimate, based on the pre WOT Pakistani economy. Ground reality might be a lot different for all we know, given the setback Pakistani economy has been facing since 2005.
 
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A Post Script to Post No 33 :

What was Jinnah's Pakistan ? What was it supposed to look like aside from the homeland part ? A homeland where more Muslims kill each other than those whom they sought to save themselves from ?

Even today, debates rage on what Jinnah wanted Pakistan to look like, I have not yet come across a clear description of how he wanted the new country to look & behave .
 
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Pakistan hasn't conducted a census in over 15 years. All the stats coming out of Pakistan is at best a guesstimate, based on the pre WOT Pakistani economy. Ground reality might be a lot different for all we know, given the setback Pakistani economy has been facing since 2005.


False, check your internet sources.
 
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Jinnahs Pakistan is dead in the water it does not exist today as a Shia he most probably would have been a target for assassination sad but true!
 
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Muslims are not in better position because we have corrupt leaders as our ruler neither they have implemented Islam and not also not focused on eliminating corruption in fact they themselves are the most corrupt of all and also brutal involved in all kind of evils so Muslims have to rise up and change the corrupt system which they have slowly they are changing but making progress will take time and Muslims have to be patient and focused and give their 100 %

Jinnahs Pakistan is dead in the water it does not exist today as a Shia he most probably would have been a target for assassination sad but true!
Jinah's Pakistan exist today and it just defeated your team yesterday remember :victory:
 
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Muslims are not in better position because we have corrupt leaders as our ruler neither they have implemented Islam and not also not focused on eliminating corruption in fact they themselves are the most corrupt of all and also brutal involved in all kind of evils so Muslims have to rise up and change the corrupt system which they have slowly they are changing but making progress will take time and Muslims have to be patient and focused and give their 100 %


Jinah's Pakistan exist today and it just defeated your team yesterday remember :victory:


The way we are playing cricket at the moment even Bangaldesh could defeat us
 
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Muslims are not in better position because we have corrupt leaders as our ruler neither they have implemented Islam and not also not focused on eliminating corruption in fact they themselves are the most corrupt of all and also brutal involved in all kind of evils so Muslims have to rise up and change the corrupt system which they have slowly they are changing but making progress will take time and Muslims have to be patient and focused and give their 100 %
Jinah's Pakistan exist today and it just defeated your team yesterday remember :victory:
Then why you guys give this idea that Indian Muslims are in bad condition due to oppression by Hindus whereas the reality is that they are in bad condition because of lack of education, large family sizes, past poor conditions and many other factors that also resulted in over 450 million poor people in India including Hindus too. Still Indian minorities have more say in the govt. than Pakistani minorities have in theirs.

Its so selective of you guys when you put your bad position on governance whereas lecture us on so called religious intolerance for Indian Muslims' condition.

By the way same Jinnah's Pakistan lost in Asian Champions Hockey semi-final yesterday. Again selective of your wins and ignoring losses. How typical ?
 
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