Are coups destiny for Turkiye and Pakistan? Let me hear what you think

[RayKalm]

Our one of the Former Chief of General Staffs Ilker basbug was saying he respects and supports democracy. Right now, he is in the jail and have been prosecuted to planning a coup against civil government. Please check these out.

Turkey’s ex-military chief imprisoned on coup charges

Turkey

Prosecutor accuses Başbuğ of serving goals of Ergenekon

Prosecutor accuses Ba

Başbuğ is senior member of Ergenekon, indictment says

Ba

Besides, if a general says he supports democracy, then there is a problem. Have you ever heard any General in the USA said that he supports democracy? You cannot hear anything like that. Hopefully one day we will not hear anything like that.

I hope you understand what I mean

The reason the generals in the US don't say that they support democracy is because they already have democracy.

The generals in Pakistan are in a different situation than the general in the US. And as for the Turkish generals, I don't think it's a good idea to relate.

Kayani seems to be a different person all together, he seems to really want Pakistan to be more pro-democracy.

He has even shown it over time, for example, he gave a list of the next ISI commanders to the president to choose from (that seems very democratic). There are many more examples of this.

 

[TheCommander]

The reason the generals in the US don't say that they support democracy is because they already have democracy.

The generals in Pakistan are in a different situation than the general in the US. And as for the Turkish generals, I don't think it's a good idea to relate.

Kayani seems to be a different person all together, he seems to really want Pakistan to be more pro-democracy.

He has even shown it over time, for example, he gave a list of the next ISI commanders to the president to choose from (that seems very democratic). There are many more examples of this.

My point was that if a country really has the democracy, noone (politicians or generals etc.) feel to say he/she support democracy. I gave the USA as an example, because their standard should be the GOAL for both Turkiye and Pakistan to reach.

 

[RayKalm]

My point was that if a country really has the democracy, noone (politicians or generals etc.) feel to say he/she support democracy. I gave the USA as an example, because their standard should be the GOAL for both Turkiye and Pakistan to reach.

Pakistan is a new emerging democracy. We had sections of democracy before, but 2008 is when we really started our real democracy.

Democracy Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to this list, Pakistan, out of 167 countries is only 105 on the list. Turkey is 88. This jump from an authoritarian regime to an hybrid was pretty massive in just 3-4 years. Apparently Arab countries/terr like Palestine, Lebanon and Tunisia have more democracy than us.

So, it's more likely for Pakistani generals to say that they support democracy in order to strengthen it than, say, countries like the US or Canada.

I believe we should be slowly moving up in the upcoming years if we have better elected officials.

 

[Edevelop]

Turkey is in good standing now. I don't see any chance of coup...

Pakistan on the other hand is in the process of 'change' and I see the light. General Kayani has clearly stated that he and his men have no interest and they will stay out of government affairs.... This is entirely true. The current Zardari regime has created so much mess in 4 years that anyone will want to oust him out. Credit must go to the Army, who have let people and media use their frustrations....

 

[King Solomon]

Turkey is in good standing now. I don't see any chance of coup...

Pakistan on the other hand is in the process of 'change' and I see the light. General Kayani has clearly stated that he and his men have no interest and they will stay out of government affairs.... This is entirely true. The current Zardari regime has created so much mess in 4 years that anyone will want to oust him out. Credit must go to the Army, who have let people and media use their frustrations....

Coup in pakistan will not happen unless it is absolutely necessary - eg. severe security threat (threat of coalition war?)

I do not have much idea about Turkey. All I know is it has a history of coups. And history tends to repeat itself.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Extreme situations require extreme measures. If political instability threatens our national security than what needs to be done is clear. Our army will not sit idly and watch.

in times of danger, ideologic values be it democratic, nationalistic or religionic doesn't matter only thing that holds relevance is our national security and i think i made it clear second time.

tamam kardeshim......i'm glad we see eye-to-eye on this

but also remember (i hope Pakistanis wake up and remeber it VERY clearly) that "democracy" doesnt mean Zardari/Gilani version of democracy which basically says "here we are....we are wearing suits and ties.....here's picture of Mohtarma bibi. So there you go, we are democracy......and since we are democracy, it means we don't have to deliver on any of our promises or fulfill any of our duties to our country.....we are a democracy, so it doesnt matter if there's load-shedding in every Province of the country; dont matter that our advisers talk about austerity while a 100-member over-staffed team goes on foreign trips and books at 5-star hotels and spending crores of rupees (national money) on personal luxury spending



but hey!! it's okay!!! we can afford to screw up every day and plunder & loot Pakistan because we're democracy.....!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RayKalm]

Also just to note here; Pakistan's military sent in a budget proposal to the parliament last year which the parliament rejected. They've done so again this year, with a lower increase than their rejected proposal last year.

How does the budget system work for the military in Turkey?

 

[explorer9]

Now Coup d’état are things of past for both Turkey & Pakistan because masses are not supporting that and politics has also got matured than before yet Pakistan still lacks strong leadership unlike Turkey where Erdogan-Gul duo are doing great.

 

[Targon]

Logically last decide should be of National Security Council, don't know how its works though.