Are coups destiny for Turkiye and Pakistan? Let me hear what you think

[TheCommander]

yeah, the big word is *IF*

Dear Abu Zolfiqar. My point is there should not be ANY "IF" condition. If we can talk about the "IF" condition, then we are on the same page. Can you talk about any "IF" condition for the USA, or England? Absolutely "NOT". I hope one day both Turkiye and Pakistan can reach this standard for their own citizens favor.

 

[BronzePlaque]

Both Turkey and Pakistan had suffered from those coups..I hope there wont be any in the future

 

[PakistaniandProud]

Imran Khan will win (Inshallah!)

His supporters are everywhere around the world and in Pakistan.

Even prominent political officials support him.

PTI Remix

PTI Imran Khan Lahore Speech Remix - YouTube

 

[RayKalm]

I do not think coup d'etat is far away for Pakistan. The Military is so powerful in Pakistan than Turkiye. As i said although we have control on the military we have not fully control yet. Don`t forget it is not that much easy to change Generals mind in a short time. It will require some time and new generation must be educated properly. That is how the military can be tamed

Kayani, our army's top general says this; Pakistan Army supports democracy, says Kayani - Yahoo! News India

He supports a democratic Pakistan.

Above this, if Imran Khan gets into power (under Allah's will) he is almost just like Erdogan. He's religious, and wants a better military free Pakistan.

Look at what he says about the military. I still don't understand why a few trolls call him an ISI agent after this.

Army, ISI will be under me if I'm the PM: Imran Khan - YouTube

 

[TheCommander]

Kayani, our army's top general says this; Pakistan Army supports democracy

Our one of the Former Chief of General Staffs Ilker basbug was saying he respects and supports democracy. Right now, he is in the jail and have been prosecuted to planning a coup against civil government. Please check these out.

Turkey’s ex-military chief imprisoned on coup charges

Turkey

Prosecutor accuses Başbuğ of serving goals of Ergenekon

Prosecutor accuses Ba

Başbuğ is senior member of Ergenekon, indictment says

Ba

Besides, if a general says he supports democracy, then there is a problem. Have you ever heard any General in the USA said that he supports democracy? You cannot hear anything like that. Hopefully one day we will not hear anything like that.

I hope you understand what I mean

 

[BronzePlaque]

Besides, if a general says he supports democracy, then there is a problem. Have you ever heard any General in the USA said that he supports democracy? You cannot hear anything like that. Hopefully one day we will not hear anything like that.

I hope you understand what I mean

Of course we can`t..They are too busy with bringing democracy to other countries..
**********
Seriously, this Basbug prosecution is interesting..He was the Chief of General Staff of Turkey and now he became a terrorist, a senior member of Ergenekon..To be honest, i find it hard to believe..But all in all, we need to trust our independent judiciary, at the end the sword of justice has no scabbard

 

[TheCommander]

It does not matter who he is or what his position was. What it matters is that what he did. the prosecution of Gen. Basbug may seem interesting but there are evidence and that is why he is in the jail now. The Ergenekon as you know is accepted as an armed terrorist organization therefore Gen. Basbug is accused to be member of this Ergenekon terrorist organization.

I am not against anyone who is prosecuted and in jail now. I just want to have a democratic country and do not want to see any coup anymore. That is why the coups prosecutions are very important for our country.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Any country with strong army is vulnerable to coups by the very army that is supposed to protect the constitution. Singling out Turkey and Pakistan is not a good approach. There are many other countries regardless of their religion, that have seen army coups in the past 50+ years.

When it comes to Pakistan, our politicians must learn to respect and follow our constitution, improve governance, reduce corruption, and create a positive environment free from anarchy and instability.

In the past however, our politicians have not fulfilled their duties to our constitution, have forced anarchy upon us, and generated a corrupt environment.

Thus army took over and Pakistani masses supported such coups.

This is the reality and hope people respect Pakistani army's actions. Why?

Just look at Afghanis. They didn't have their own army to bring stability, and now they are under gora boots and they have been under gora boots from one gora country to another for the last 40 years or so.

Pakistanis too would suffer Afghani situation had it not been for Pak army.

Now that we know briefly what happened in the Pakistan, Zardari, Sharif, and Imran all should follow the constitution and create positive environment in the country. As long as they fulfill their duties, army doesn't need to step in.


peace.

 

[SamranAli]

we shouldnt blame totally the coups. Its our politicians who give a chance to coups to come and overthrow them. The democracy in Pakistan has always looted because of corrupt people now need of the hour is to elect clean and honest person. The worst ever thing happened to be in Pakistan is our corrupt political parties.

 

[TrMhMt]

we shouldnt blame totally the coups. Its our politicians who give a chance to coups to come and overthrow them. The democracy in Pakistan has always looted because of corrupt people now need of the hour is to elect clean and honest person. The worst ever thing happened to be in Pakistan is our corrupt political parties.

This is exactly what i was about to say. Everyone blames the coups but our politicians were not innocent. They prepared our country for coup. In 1980, my people divided two political groups as rightwinger and leftwinger. They have started to kill each-other. Turkiye was under a terror wave. Millions were killed just because they had different political view then each-other. Therefore, i do not blame our coup. I always blame our corrupt political parties. They couldn't handle and manage the situation. They just watched this tragedy same as watching a film in the cinema. I dont want to talk about policeman. They were what are they now.

Since M. K. Ataturk passed away, we have been governing by corrupted leaders and their parties.

Edit: Nowadays arresting and jailing coups is a new trend at Turkiye. We call it " New democracy" !! So we lift our democracy up like this. Ohh if you ask me " How about politicians?" They are watching this as they have done before. As you see, our democracy works only for one side.

 

[LegionnairE]

a country becomes stronger when its institutions (and their roles, conduct etc) are WELL ESTABLISHED, accountable, and answerable to 'higher ups'. And these institutions and organs of the state are functional and working in unison

in any democracy that is extremely important

Extreme situations require extreme measures. If political instability threatens our national security than what needs to be done is clear. Our army will not sit idly and watch.

in times of danger, ideologic values be it democratic, nationalistic or religionic doesn't matter only thing that holds relevance is our national security and i think i made it clear second time.

 

[Killuminati]

Coups are be needed. Otherwise goverments that works for USA, will keep fooling people with democracy lies and little by little changing the laws in Turkey for future devide.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Coups are be needed. Otherwise goverments that works for USA, will keep fooling people with democracy lies and little by little changing the laws in Turkey for future devide.

Military coups is the military's way of saying "people are too stupid to control themselves, we need to teach them a lesson"
Military coups in today's world will only happen in the most extreme cases, such as extremely undeveloped countries like Liberia and Togo. If some in here thinks military coup in Turkey is an option, then they also think Turkey is a country on level with Liberia and Togo. Our people are not stupid, we have a certain level of education and wealth, we can judge for ourselves who we want to govern us, not the opposite.

 

[Meengla]

The days of 'hard coup' (to coin a term?) in Pakistan are over. And we are better off for that! Pakistani history is full of military coups. By early 2008, the military rulers had directly controlled more than half of Pakistan's history. Was Pakistan better off? I think not! An emphatic NO! Why do I say that when I can see that economically Pakistan benefited from Ayub Khan and Musharraf's rules; even Zia's was not as bad as the incompetent democratic govts. But Pakistan is not a bank! Economy is not everything. There are lots of give and takes which only a democratic setup can allow. Stakes have to be distributed as much as possible. Allies from regional players to be made and placated....
So are we going to see another Bonaparte marching into Presidency in Pakistan in our lifetime? No! Even Zia ul Haq--Pakistan's proto-Taliban--had to put the Constitution into 'abeyance'; even he too had to accommodate the civilians, even if a fig-leaf like.

And, yes, Pakistan has its own Erdogan in the form of Imran Khan. More power to him! May he be protected well. This is coming from someone like me who always supported either PPP or MQM...

 

[Meengla]

Because Benazir was assassinated and her party got sympathy votes for that ! But hopefully this is a lesson well-learnt and never again would be elect Zardari and his ilk !

WRONG!
In 2002 when Benazir was not even in Pakistan and there was NO HOPE that Musharraf would ally the PPP to form the govt. PPP still the largest vote getter in Pakistan. It has been since 1970: Either the largest vote getter and/or the largest seat-getter. It has been consistently like that for 40+ years.
So this argument about 'sympathy vote' is highly exaggerated. PPP 'improved' from 28% in 2002 to 30% in 2008; hardly much of a change.

As to why people vote for PPP...it is for another topic. I have contributed to derailing this topic enough. Pardon!