Are coups destiny for Turkiye and Pakistan? Let me hear what you think

[Armstrong]

I do not think coup d'etat is far away for Pakistan. The Military is so powerful in Pakistan than Turkiye. As i said although we have control on the military we have not fully control yet. Don`t forget it is not that much easy to change Generals mind in a short time. It will require some time and new generation must be educated properly. That is how the military can be tamed

Between fighting an insurgency in Balochistan, militancy in KP, keeping a pace with the unbridled acquisitions of our larger neighbour in the East, trying to think up an end-game (and then a post-end-game) for Afghanistan and the public's unacceptability to the coup - I think the Pakistan Army is pretty much preoccupied at the moment !

I am just wondering, why did you guys elect your current leaders?

Because Benazir was assassinated and her party got sympathy votes for that ! But hopefully this is a lesson well-learnt and never again would be elect Zardari and his ilk !

 

[Pakistanisage]

Is the military really tamed, brother? I think today`s change based on the Chief of Staff Gen. Necdet Ozel. The AKP government has not changed the laws yet which means when Necdet Ozel is retired and another Gen. assigned as Chief of Staff who is not as democrat as Necdet Ozel and carries the idea of old general such as Gen. Ilker Basbug or Gen. Yasar Buyukanit, then our democracy is in a big danger. Don`t forget, Recep Tayyip Erdogan still hesitate to retire those generals who tried to plot a coup to his government.



I do not think coup d'etat is far away for Pakistan. The Military is so powerful in Pakistan than Turkiye. As i said although we have control on the military we have not fully control yet. Don`t forget it is not that much easy to change Generals mind in a short time. It will require some time and new generation must be educated properly. That is how the military can be tamed

No my Brother, you do not understand the Pakistan situation very well. Pakistan today has the worst Political government in the 65 years history of Pakistan. If the Military took over today, Pakistani people will be dancing in the streets. Still the Army does not even think about taking over by a coup detat because they understand that it is the worst thing they can do for the long term democracy in the country. Military will only take over if the country was burning and no Politician was able to take over. Today we Pakistanis are marking time for another one year when the term of this despicable govt will be over in 2013 and elections will be held. We are hoping and praying that our national hero Imran Khan can take over as the Prime Minister of Pakistan.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Because Benazir was assassinated and her party got sympathy votes for that ! But hopefully this is a lesson well-learnt and never again would be elect Zardari and his ilk !

I hope that our people never elect any moron ever again, Pakistanis need to learn to judge a person's character better than they do at the moment. Voting for someone out of sympathy is extremely odd, especially when that person already had a reputation of being corrupt.

Pakistan needs to give greater priority to reducing illiteracy & educating the populace as that is a prerequisite for democracy. I am sorry to say this but those who lack education aren't capable of effectively choosing a leader to rule over them.

 

[TheCommander]

No my Brother, you do not understand the Pakistan situation very well. Pakistan today has the worst Political government in the 65 years history of Pakistan. If the Military took over today, Pakistani people will be dancing in the streets. Still the Army does not even think about taking over by a coup detat because they understand that it is the worst thing they can do for the long term democracy in the country. Military will only take over if the country was burning and no Politician was able to take over. Today we Pakistanis are marking time for another one year when the term of this despicable govt will be over in 2013 and elections will be held. We are hoping and praying that our national hero Imran Khan can take over as the Prime Minister of Pakistan.

Brother, I am not an expert of Pakistan. I research and read the news. Why I said the military can take over Pakistan again is that I remember several years ago, our Prime Minister, Foreign Minister, Chief of Staff and high rank officers visited Pakistan several times to prevent any potential coup. At that time, I read news in both US and Turkish media that the military in Pakistan is about to take over. Therefore, I still think that the possibility of a coup in Pakistan is still real. Something may have changed since then but still the democracy needs to be improved and power of the military needs to be under-controlled.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Brother, I am not an expert of Pakistan. I research and read the news. Why I said the military can take over Pakistan again is that I remember several years ago, our Prime Minister, Foreign Minister, Chief of Staff and high rank officers visited Pakistan several times to prevent any potential coup. At that time, I read news in both US and Turkish media that the military in Pakistan is about to take over. Therefore, I still think that the possibility of a coup in Pakistan is still real. Something may have changed since then but still the democracy needs to be improved and power of the military needs to be under-controlled.

We Pakistanis support our Military and we want our Military really strong and independent. However, we do not want our military to be involved in Politics and Governance of the Country. That is not their role and our Military understands that. For us the Military is a our check and balance of our corrupt politicians. As long as the Politicians are doing their job honestly, our Military will stay out of the politics.

The other Check and Balance of our Politicians is our strong Judiciary.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Imran Khan sounds like the obvious choice but i don't think he has many similarities with Erdogan. Erdogan has a history in Politics since he was very young. He was the most succesful Mayor of Istanbul before he got elected as PM. He was even sent into jail by the corrupt judiciary, in short his success is his background, what about Imran Khan. We don't know much about him except that he was a popular cricketer.

 

[LegionnairE]

There will be no more coups in Turkey we are all sure of that but thinking that this is just because of AKP is foolish. Look around yourselves, the world has changed. We are no longer in cold war whatever happens in Turkey's inside politics do not threaten Turkish Nation as a whole. If we were still under Soviet threat AKP wouldn't dare moving a muscle when it comes to messing with delicate subjects.

In Turkey nobody would give a phuck if some corrupt politicians were hanged over night. Do not delude yourselves, military coups in '60 and '80 are today evil because of military's excessive use of force to maintain order after the coup, not the coup itself.

If our Nation was under threat military wouldn't tolerate any sign of weakness and any rising unrest they would handle the situation without hesitation.

 

[Armstrong]

Imran Khan sounds like the obvious choice but i don't think he has many similarities with Erdogan. Erdogan has a history in Politics since he was very young. He was the most succesful Mayor of Istanbul before he got elected as PM. He was even sent into jail by the corrupt judiciary, in short his success is his background, what about Imran Khan. We don't know much about him except that he was a popular cricketer.

He created a Cancer Hospital out of nothing when everyone...every expert said that it couldn't be done and whats more that Hospital treats well over 70% of its patients free of cost ! He created a University in his native Mianwali where state of the art education is provided either free or at pretty lower rates with the degrees coming from the University of Bradford, UK - again something that people said couldn't be done ! And hes been in politics for the better part of 15 years and he hasn't compromised on his principles yet and thats why hes gained so much popularity over the years !

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Hi,

I dont see coups or military government setup in either Turkiye nor Pakistan in the near as well as distant future. Those days are gone.

unless of course something REALLY drastic were to happen which forced it to take place, but even that I don't see in the horizon

No my Brother, you do not understand the Pakistan situation very well. Pakistan today has the worst Political government in the 65 years history of Pakistan. If the Military took over today, Pakistani people will be dancing in the streets. Still the Army does not even think about taking over by a coup detat because they understand that it is the worst thing they can do for the long term democracy in the country. Military will only take over if the country was burning and no Politician was able to take over. Today we Pakistanis are marking time for another one year when the term of this despicable govt will be over in 2013 and elections will be held. We are hoping and praying that our national hero Imran Khan can take over as the Prime Minister of Pakistan.

i dont know CoAS Gen. Kayani's personal thoughts on Zardari and his goons....but he (and actually there are numerous others) in military --serving and retired - that did have respect for the late Benazir Bhutto and for democratic principles in Pakistan. That goes without saying.

the military is currently on the sidelines just watching; actually military is too much pre-occupied doing its JOB right now. I hope government of Pakistan would observe, and learn to do its job and its role as well.....so far, there is no vision and no sense of governnance or responsibility or accountability among our leadership -- and that is why Pakistan is not shining the way it should be shining now.


Army is good, but they aren't GOD. If Army took over, yes people would celebrate but that's because they know Army is a temporary medicine to the problems and that Army (unlike politicians) has discipline and love for the nation. However, medicines are not cures always. Army can't make miracles happen.


Pakistanis in 2012 should get their heads straight, and vote for people they see as proper leaders.....Army has no will to lead the country politically, they are busy tending to the multitude of threats we are currently facing every day in the conflict theatres.

 

[Redbull]

TBH if Kayani was going to coup, it would've been after he found out Haqqani wrote that letter.

 

[TheCommander]

Hi,

I dont see coups or military government setup in either Turkiye nor Pakistan in the near as well as distant future. Those days are gone.

unless of course something REALLY drastic were to happen which forced it to take place, but even that I don't see in the horizon

Why do you think like that? Can you support your argument? Based on what criteria or information do you think any coup is not possible in Pakistan? What has been changed since 2007?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

There will be no more coups in Turkey we are all sure of that but thinking that this is just because of AKP is foolish. Look around yourselves, the world has changed. We are no longer in cold war whatever happens in Turkey's inside politics do not threaten Turkish Nation as a whole. If we were still under Soviet threat AKP wouldn't dare moving a muscle when it comes to messing with delicate subjects.

In Turkey nobody would give a phuck if some corrupt politicians were hanged over night. Do not delude yourselves, military coups in '60 and '80 are today evil because of military's excessive use of force to maintain order after the coup, not the coup itself.

If our Nation was under threat military wouldn't tolerate any sign of weakness and any rising unrest they would handle the situation without hesitation.

a country becomes stronger when its institutions (and their roles, conduct etc) are WELL ESTABLISHED, accountable, and answerable to 'higher ups'. And these institutions and organs of the state are functional and working in unison

in any democracy that is extremely important

Why do you think like that? Can you support your argument? Based on what criteria or information do you think any coup is not possible in Pakistan? What has been changed since 2007?

the media and judiciary are extremely strong; 2007 wasn't too long ago and despite problems that have arisen since then, I don't think people in general would (in the medium/long run) view mil-government as a solution to the problems -- even if initially they are celebrating and content about it.

based on what criteria or information? well, i base my OPINION on my own observations and my own feeling.

if the Army wanted to take over, they would have done so already.....Zardari/PPP's term will be ending next February, no?

Army wants nothing to do with politics right now, they are silent oberservers I think. On the sidelines.

 

[TheCommander]

if the Army wanted to take over, they would have done so already

That is exactly what I am talking about. You even acknowledge that. The army in Pakistan can anytime plot a coup.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

That is exactly what I am talking about. You even acknowledge that. The army in Pakistan can anytime plot a coup.

yeah, the big word is *IF*

and that *IF* is only contingent on some crazy possibly irreversible extreme which I clearly said, even I don't predict happening in the near future.

and by the way, while I would acknowledge that in the past the Khakis may have made mistakes or miscalculations at sometime but it DEFINITELY doesn't beat the government's record of corruption and mismanagement.

 

[airmarshal]

Army is good, but they aren't GOD. If Army took over, yes people would celebrate but that's because they know Army is a temporary medicine to the problems and that Army (unlike politicians) has discipline and love for the nation. However, medicines are not cures always. Army can't make miracles happen.


Pakistanis in 2012 should get their heads straight, and vote for people they see as proper leaders.....Army has no will to lead the country politically, they are busy tending to the multitude of threats we are currently facing every day in the conflict theatres.

Whenever army takes over, it leaves more problems behind than it could solve them. We need to elect competent politicians. Thats our responsibility. How can we call this democracy where leaders get elected to plunder and kill its own people!! Our fault lies in not voting and choosing the right people. That is why I said in several of my posts that WE MUST VOTE and use our vote wisely.