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Archaeologists confirm Indian civilization is 2000 years older than previou

I believe the link answers that question.



This discussion is only about the early Rig Veda, since by mandala 10, we are all agreed that the Vedics were referring to the Indian Ganga. Is there a reference to tigers or rice in the early Rig Veda?

Chapter 4 – Food and Art in the Vedic age

Barley and wheat seem to have been the chief produce of the field, and the principal articles of
food. The names of grain found in the Rig-Veda are somewhat misleading, as they have come to bear a different signification in modern days from what they had in the ancient times. Thus the word yava, which in modern Sanskrit implies barley only, was used in the Veda to imply food-grains generally, including wheat and barley. And the word dhana, which, in Bengal at least, now means paddy or rice, implies in the Rig-Veda fried barley, which was used as food and offered to the gods. There is no allusion to rice (vrihi) in the Rig-Veda.

So some of the word are not yet decoded correctly, Even then most of the areas in northern India use Wheat as their main staple. Similarly Tigers are also not found in that region.

In Ramayana it was clearly mentioned the places and they are exactly mtching with the todays names.
 
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Bcoz Idiots like u don't know about Ancient Saraswati River which used to run parallel to Indus. First go n educate urself a bit before u start ranting again...

And Idiots like your self didn't research and pass their comments. Indus civilization is not only near to Indus or saraswati river but also far from it and it was prove much before that civilization is much older then previously said. please check below link.

Mehrgarh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The archeological evidence from Sri Lanka surpass both India and Pakistan. What do you think about that? Sri Lanka is the mother of all people?
 
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how much difference between Christianity and Islam? Just few.... Did we question that? Do you know all Gods were one? So do the story but with different names.... Anu was Bhrahma, enki was Vishnu, Enlil was shiva.... Gods around world were same but with different name.

That's my whole point: that all religions borrow concepts all the time and Hinduism is no exception. The later texts of Hinduism developed in India, but the early Rig Veda came from elsewhere.

You are questioning ramayan

Not really. I just mentioned in passing that I had read claims of it being a Sumerian text.

Which link ur talking about here?

One of these two, I don't remember which, discusses the business of tributaries.

http://www.breakthrough-india.org/archives/saraswati.pdf
On the Identity and Chronology of the Rigvedic River Sarasvati

The early Vedas may not have talked about rice but i doubt about tiger thats why i asked u...

I have read that the early Rig Veda does not mention the tiger and that was cited as a noteworthy omission. If you have instances of its mention in the early Rig Veda, then please provide them.

So some of the word are not yet decoded correctly, Even then most of the areas in northern India use Wheat as their main staple. Similarly Tigers are also not found in that region.

So you are saying absence of mention is not a disqualifier for the indigenous theory. Fine.

In Ramayana it was clearly mentioned the places and they are exactly mtching with the todays names.

I haven't read deeply into the claims of it being Sumerian. I just mentioned the claim in passing. It could still be about India, just as Indian authors write books about America.
 
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Rig Veda was composed in greater Punjab or Swat valley and all Vedas show an eastward migration of political center which will rest in Magadha in time of Mouryas.

I don't buy Kochhar's theory of Helmund being Saraswati and Ganga, Yamuna being tributaries of Helmand. The premises of the startling revelation is Ramayana took place in Afghanistan(which Developero is trying to allude). According to Kochhar - 'Ravana’s Lanka can be a small island in the midst of river Indus… by Vindhyas is meant Baluch hills, and by sea the Lower Indus.' He makes this revolutionary discovery on the basis of a verse in the VAlmIki RAmAyaNa (2.65.6) where “YamunA is described as surrounded by mountains”.
 
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Can u eleborate a bit what evidence u r refering here?

Dwarka is more than 12,000 years old do u have any older reference???

Quoting directly from wiki.

Prehistory of Sri Lanka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Findings at Iranamadu indicate that there were Paeolithic people in Sri Lanka as early as 300,000 BP.[2] There is definite evidence of settlements by prehistoric people in Sri Lanka by about 125,000 BP. These people made tools of quartz and chert which are assignable to the Middle Palaeolithic period.

The island appears to have been colonised by the Balangoda Man (named after the area where his remains were discovered) prior to 34,000 BP. They have been identified as a group of Mesolithic hunter gatherers who lived in caves. Fa Hien Cave has yielded the earliest evidence (at c. 34,000 BP) of anatomically modern humans in South Asia.

The Balangoda Man appears to have been responsible for creating Horton Plains, in the central hills, by burning the trees in order to catch game. However, evidence from the plains suggests the incipient management of Oats and Barley by about 15,000 BC.

The transition in Sri Lanka from the Mesolithic to the Iron Age has not been adequately documented. A human skeleton found at Godavaya in the Hambantota district, provisionally dated back to 3000 - 5000 BC was accompanied by tools of animal-bone and stone.[5]

However, evidence from Horton Plains indicates the existence of agriculture by about 8000 BC, including herding of Bos and cultivation of oats and barley. Excavations in the cave of Dorawaka-kanda near Kegalle indicate the use about 4300 BC of pottery, together with stone stools, and possibly cereal cultivation.[1][4]

Slag found at Mantai dated to about 1800 BC could indicate the knowledge of copper-working.[4]

Cinnamon, which is native to Sri Lanka, was in use in Ancient Egypt in about 1500 BC, suggesting that there were trading links with the island. It is possible that Biblical Tarshish was located on the island (James Emerson Tennent identified it with Galle).
 
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Thats grt i didn't knew that but what we r discussing here is about advnced ancient civilizations, the Dwarka i mentioned here was ancient advanced city which got submergered around 12,000 years ago, n nobody knows exactly how old it could have been besides Hindu text also give reference towards it.

But i think the whole sub continent itself including SL could have immense pre historic architecture beneath our feet just waiting to be discovered:enjoy:
 
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I agree that neither the AIT nor indigenous claims are fully convincing, and the descriptions are open to interpretation, which is why linguistic and other clues need to be factored in. The absence of tigers, rice, etc also casts doubt on the early Vedics being Indian.

Tiger was also found in Central Asia in pre historic time. Below is the distribution of Caspian Tigers. Even if Rig Veda was composed in Afghanistan they would have known Tiger. Please note while Tiger was not mentioned in Rig Veda, however it was mentioned in later text with a pure Aryan name - Vhyagra which is cognate of Babr(Iranian) and vagr(Armenian).

Distribution of Caspian tigers -

Panthera_tigris_virgata_dis.png


So we can rule out that Rg Veics were non-familiar to Tigers, however it can't be clarified that why it is not mentioned. One theory is the word Simha is used to refer both Tigers and Lions.

Rice was not mentioned but so wasn't any other specific grains - neither wheat, nor millet, nor even barley. Only a generic term Dhanya which refers to any grain in general. Why absence of rice in Rg Vedas is taken as being unaware of existence of rice is beyond me.
 
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That interpretation is speculative.


Not really, in any case far less than the imagined leaps in both the article that you provided a link to & the hypothesis that you have argued for.



Name transfers happen all the time. Just because there is a town called Bethlehem in Pennsylvania, and it has churches in it, doesn't mean that it's the birthplace of Jesus.

Never said it doesn't, just that there is no evidence to suggest that name transfers did not take place in the opposite direction than what is alluded to(in the article) which is a more likely possibility considering that the Sarasvati in India is now pretty much proven to be a much mightier river than the Helmand. It simply could be the Iranians naming that over a distant memory. Considering that the Avesta has no knowledge of western Iran & its known areas include the Punjab, one could argue that it makes sense with an westward migration(not suggesting that is how it happened, just pointing out the obvious frailty of the argument made suggesting the opposite).


The absence of tigers, rice, etc also casts doubt on the early Vedics being Indian.

parts of the point already made by LaBong

True, rice is not directly mentioned but neither is any other grain ,not wheat,not millet, not barley - the word yava is accepted by almost all scholars to refer to grains in general & not specifically to barley which it was at a later time. This remains true of the entire length of the Rg veda including the later mandalas when according to even AIT proponents(and you), they were well settled in India.
However the basic argument itself falls apart because the Rg veda does make references to some items prepared out of rice -The Rigveda clearly refers to certain culinary preparations made from rice: apupa and purlns (types of rice cakes) and odana (ricegruel).

As far as the lack of references to tigers go, while that is true in reference to the word vyaghra, a purely aryan word which is not only possessing of a purely Indo-European etymology, but also having cognate forms in Iranian babr and Armenian vagr(odd, don't you think if they didn't know of tigers in those places); it has been argued that the word Simha was used for both lions & tigers and (I have made a reference to this earlier too on a different thread) according to Mark Kenoyer - the American archeologist, it probably stood for the tiger rather than for the lion. In any case it remains unmentioned even when the later Rg veda mandalas are firmly placed within India. Add to that the fact that tigers were not unique only to the gangetic plains(( seals of Harappa and Mohenjodaro contain many pictorial representations of the tiger, even when they have none of the lion). In earlier times, tigers were found in Afghanistan, Iran & even central asia. There is simply no simple answer to this question of the tiger in the Rg veda, including the very simplistic assumption that the creature was not known, even in the period that AIT proponents argue was when there was deep penetration into the gangetic plains.
 
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