ARABIC language to be POPULARIZED in Pakistan

[Mahabahu kaunteya]

Because it is inferior

@How ?

 

[Edevelop]

Anyway in all seriousness, Urdu for good and bad (we know the historical reasons to why a largely foreign language was imposed as the state language of Pakistan and by which group of people) is likely to stay along with English. Aside from the various native languages.

So this linguistic "mess" will remain.

The talk of adopting ANY other foreign language will remain just that. Talk.

To begin with, before we try to adopt any other languages, we might try to improve our literacy rate which is woefully bad. I think that this would be a far better idea.



Sometimes I do wonder why Punjabi never became the official language of Pakistan? After all Punjabis are the largest ethnicity and usually the majority in a country decides the lingua franca.

Anyway although I would love it, is is unrealistic to try teach all Pakistanis all of our 4 main languages (Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi and Balochi).

It is a controversial topic, but I don't think that Urdu has fully served its role as intended.

What is your take on this important topic @Indus Pakistan , curious to hear your opinion about it.



Bingo.

@Edevelop

@Khashoggi was not Turkish. Only his distant relatives were.

His grandfather;

Muhammad Khashoggi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is what Wikipedia says about him (there are references to the claims)

Khashoggi's remote Turkish ancestors made the Hajj from Kayseri to Mecca some four centuries earlier and decided to stay.[3][4]

Otherwise all of his family and lineage was Saudi Arabian Arab. So he was more an Arab than a Turk and his death had nothing to do with his ancestry. According to Wikipedia there are 300.000 local Saudi Arabians of Turkish (Anatolian) ancestry. Many close to the state as well. I have never heard about any tensions so once again I am afraid that you have studied a different history from that of everyone else.

If Khashoggi is Turkish, millions of Pakistanis are apparently Arab because of their claims of being Sayyid's etc. Come on.

Jamal Khashoggi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In Jeddah you will find thousands of Saudis of Turkish origin. This is a fact. By the way not everything on wikipedia is correct. You can ask any Pakistani who has lived in Jeddah. Perhaps they are not aware of this either but he or she will tell you at least that they look different compared to other Saudis and compared to other cities they are far more liberal.

Oh lets not talk about who is a sayyid in Pakistan.. There are a lot of fakes and self proclaimed 'sayyids' Lol.

 

[Mahabahu kaunteya]

Bolnay walon ko pata ha but aysi baatain nahi karni chahiyeen kuch logon ko bura lagta ha

Apke uttar ke liye dhanyawad , meri jigyasa ab shaant hogyi hai .
Ab iske atirikt koi karan Jaan ne ki chesta karna vyarth hoga .

 

[_NOBODY_]

Why not second?

If it becomes the 3rd official language then it will always be below English simply because English is the most spoken language in the world.

 

[Corruptistan]

In Jeddah you will find millions of Saudis of Turkish origin. This is a fact. By the way not everything on wikipedia is correct. You can ask any Pakistani who has lived in Jeddah. Perhaps they are not aware of this either but he or she will tell you they look different compared to other cities they are far more liberal.

Oh lets not talk about who is a sayyid.. There are a lot of fakes and self proclaimed 'sayyids' Lol.

Millions? Once again, I am not sure where you have read your history. It sounds absurd. The population of Jeddah is around 5 million and you are telling me that there are millions of Saudi Arabians of Turkish ancestry in Jeddah alone?

Funny that you mention Jeddah, as this is a city where I lived as a child for a few years when my father and family was based in KSA. Yes, it is more liberal because it is a coastal metropolis. This is always the case in every country usually. Take Turkey as an example. Istanbul and Izmir are way more liberal than say Kayseri. Anyway Jeddah was the entry point of pilgrims from across the world from Bosnia to Nigeria to Indonesia to Sri Lanka.

There are Saudi Arabians of every ethnicity, Pakistani ethnicities included. A former mayor of Jeddah was named Farsi and of Persian origin.

However today, apparently, from what I hear, Riyadh is more liberal than Jeddah. MBS has really changed KSA dramatically and to no surprise the locals are embracing the changes and not revolting. When you reform gradually and in the right pace, the end result is usually a good one. When you try to reform overnight (Afghanistan under King Zahir Shah and Iran under Reza Pahlavi) and very aggressively, you tend to fail.

Well, that is exactly my point. If Khashoggi is Turkish because his paternal ancestors in a straight line migrated from Kayseri to Hijaz 400 years ago, millions of Pakistanis are self-proclaimed Arabs, Turks whatever using that logic. That was my point.

 

[Edevelop]

Millions? Once again, I am not sure where you have read your history. It sounds absurd. Let me use Google. It says that the population of Jeddah is around 5 million and you are telling me that there are millions of Saudi Arabians of Turkish ancestry in Jeddah alone? I don't buy that, sorry. I go by the official scholarly estimates although this can be hard to fully estimate accurately as we don't know what counts as "Anatolian", is it a great-grandmother's father whose lineage was Anatolian? In such a case millions might be the right estimation but by that logic Arabs would number in the 10's millions in Turkey as well.

Funny that you mention Jeddah, as this is a city where I lived as a child for a few years when my father and family was based in KSA. Yes, it is more liberal because it is a coastal metropolis. This is always the case in every country usually. Take Turkey as an example. Istanbul and Izmir are way more liberal than say Kayseri. Anyway Jeddah was the entry point of pilgrims from across the world from Bosnia to Nigeria to Indonesia to Sri Lanka.

There are Saudi Arabians of every ethnicity, Pakistani ethnicities included. A former mayor of Jeddah was named Farsi and of Persian origin.

However today, apparently, from what I hear, Riyadh is more liberal than Jeddah. MBS has really changed KSA dramatically and to no surprise the locals are embracing the changes and not revolting. When you reform gradually and in the right pace, the end result is usually a good one. When you try to reform overnight (Afghanistan under King Zahir Shah and Iran under Reza Pahlavi) and very aggressively, you tend to fail.

Well, that is exactly my point. If Khashoggi is Turkish because his paternal ancestors in a straight line migrated from Kayseri to Hijaz 400 years ago, millions of Pakistanis are self-proclaimed Arabs, Turks whatever using that logic. That was my point.

Looks like its a whole new topic which we won't agree lol. So going back to our original topic, should Pakistanis learn Arabic?

I believe each individual should have the right to learn what they want in personal capacity but no I do not believe Arabic should be our 'national language' nor become state institutionalized in any form. I don't see Arabic language and Arabic culture co-exsiting with our Persian influenced cultures.. We have seen wahhabism has destroyed Pakistan and produced Zia ul Haq types.

 

[Corruptistan]

Urdu is medium of education in Pakistan since British raj days

Only among the educated city elites (tiny amount) and that to mostly only in what is today contemporary Pakistani Punjab. Urdu is as foreign to Pakistan as Farsi, Turkish or Arabic would have been in the sense that it is not a language developed or native to Pakistan. It was developed in what is contemporary Bihar/New Delhi/India during Mughal rule.

Looks like its a whole new topic which we won't agree lol. So going back to our original topic, should Pakistanis learn Arabic?

I believe each individual should have the right to learn what they want but no I do not believe Arabic should be our 'national language' nor become state institutionalized in any form. I don't see Arabic language and Arabic culture co-exsiting with our Persian influenced cultures.. We have seen cultural wahhabism has destroyed Pakistan and produced poltical Zia ul Haq types.

I don't agree that we are a "Persian-influenced" society. Tajikistan and half of Afghanistan are. We are not. As I correctly argued using historical facts, much of that Persian influence in Pakistan is actually Arab. Even the majority of the foreign vocabulary of Urdu is Arabic in origin. Our alphabets (all the ones are native languages are based on) are based on the Arabic alphabet too. Arabic language has been the greatest foreign language influence of all of our native languages with Persian as a second.

That aside, as I have always argued, Pakistan is a unique entity.

If the argument is "Wahhabism" = Arab, you can make the same argument about Islam itself. Islam = Arab.

Sufism too originated in the Arab world and all the main Sufi orders as well.

And why exactly is Shia = Iran when Shia Islam is Arab too in origin and all the major Shia pilgrimage sites being located in Arab lands? The oldest Shia communities in the world are found among Arabs too.

The only reason why you are writing that is due to the Mughal heritage but if anything that heritage gave us Urdu and not Farsi.

Zia-ul-Haq was a "made in Pakistan" project fusion with the Afghan-Soviet war as the main ingredient which was mostly a US/Pakistan/ISI project. If that dreaded USSR had never attacked Afghanistan or influenced it by spreading communism, Pakistan would be very different today. That conflict/war destroyed us on many fronts.

 

[Corruptistan]

Not elites all literate people knew urdu. Literacy rate was 13 percent in 1951

You are talking about 1951. 13% is a tiny percentage as well. I am talking about pre-1947. By 1951 Pakistan had already welcomed millions of refugees from modern-day India, majority hailing from Urdu/Hindi speaking Bihar.

Can you tell me the percentage of Urdu speakers in say Quetta in 1800 or Larkana? Or what about the number of Urdu speakers in say Peshawar? I don't know the exact numbers, I doubt that anyone does, but I would imagine that for 99.99% of the locals, local languages were spoken.

Anyway none of that changes the facts that I wrote. Urdu is a foreign language imposed on Pakistan. It was not developed in what is today Pakistan nor native to it.

Punjabi on the other hand is a native tongue to Pakistan along with the other main languages (Pashtun, Sindhi and Balochi).

 

[Maula Jatt]

Urdu is medium of education in Pakistan since British raj days

That was the forcing part, British brutally pushed down Urdu on us

It's legacy of British imperialism of our land's

I am not against Urdu but native languages should be given their due

 

[MultaniGuy]

Arabic should be learned to Understand Qur'an and do Islamic rituals properly.

But our national language is Urdu.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Egyptian Ambassador Ahmed Fadel Yacoub said on Monday that Arabic is the language of the holy Quran also being taught in Pakistan as an important language.

“Islam is more than a religion; it has a culture and civilisation and today’s conference will give participants a deeper knowledge of Arabic and will provide opportunities to strengthen the relation among brother Muslim states,” he said while addressing the inaugural session of the two-day international conference on Contemporary Arabic Literature – New Trends in Research & Criticism as a chief guest organised by the Arabic Department of the National University of Modern Languages (NUML).

NUML Director General Brigadier Muhammad Ibrahim, NUML Languages Department Dean Dr Safeer Awan, directors, national and international scholars, heads of departments, faculty and a large number of students attended the inaugural session.

The ambassador said that Egypt will cooperate with Pakistan as far as promoting Arabic language is concerned. He said that language plays an active role in bringing countries together and this conference will open new ways to understand Arabic literature.

Earlier, NUML DG Brigadier Muhammad Ibrahim welcomed the honourable chief guest and said that every Muslim has a strong connection with Arabic as it is the language of the holy Quran and the Hadiths, that is why people of Pakistan have a special interest in this language. He said literature has no boundaries and so today’s conference will pave the way to open new horizons to understand this great language as best scholars from different countries will present their research papers in the conference.

In the two-day conference, research scholars from Brunei Darul Salam, Jordon, Egypt, United Arab Emirates and Pakistan will present their papers.

———————————————————————————————————————————————

!!!مرحبا حبيبى

What a joke.

 

[Corruptistan]

Why you hate urdu? Almost all Punjabis can speak or understand urdu and majority of people from other provinces also understand it

Where have I said that I hate it? It is a beautiful language by large with a great literary tradition although it is not that old due to the young age of the language.

Read my post 165 and what I was referring to.

I already said that Urdu is not going away nor are we going to adopt any foreign languages other than the already widely used English. To begin with we should focus on improving our already woeful literacy rate before we attempt to learn/master foreign languages be they Arabic, Mandarin or whatever.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Your native language should be taught in American schools Pakistanis learn their mother tongues in their homes bicharay overseas Pakistanis ko unki native language bhol jaye gi

American kids learn English in their homes, so English shouldn't be taught in school, shouldn't be used in any official capacity

Low IQ post

 

[Edevelop]

Only among the educated city elites (tiny amount) and that to mostly only in what is today contemporary Pakistani Punjab. Urdu is as foreign to Pakistan as Farsi, Turkish or Arabic would have been in the sense that it is not a language developed or native to Pakistan. It was developed in what is contemporary Bihar/New Delhi/India during Mughal rule.



I don't agree that we are a "Persian-influenced" society. Tajikistan and half of Afghanistan are. We are not. As I correctly argued using historical facts, much of that Persian influence in Pakistan is actually Arab. Even the majority of the foreign vocabulary of Urdu is Arabic in origin. Our alphabets (all the ones are native languages are based on) are based on the Arabic alphabet too. Arabic language has been the greatest foreign language influence of all of our native languages with Persian as a second.

If the argument is "Wahhabism" = Arab, you can make the same argument about Islam itself. Islam = Arab.

Sufism too originated in the Arab world and all the main Sufi orders as well.

And why exactly is Shia = Iran when Shia Islam is Arab too in origin and all the major Shia pilgrimage sites being located in Arab lands? The oldest Shia communities in the world are found among Arabs too.

The only reason why you are writing that is due to the Mughal heritage but if anything that heritage gave us Urdu and not Farsi.

Zia-ul-Haq was a "made in Pakistan" project fusion with the Afghan-Soviet war as the main ingredient which was mostly a US/Pakistan/ISI project.

Wahhabism = Gulf Arabs. Except for the language the other so called Arabs like I said are unique and culturally distinct. They do not treat each other the same way. If 22 Arab countries cannot co-exist as a single nation how does Pakistan fit into this puzzle? ahaha

Iran became Shia only 500 years ago, may be politically its appeals to you more but culturally, as a Pakistani, it does not affect who we are and how our languages arose. We will always be in the league of 'Ajam'

I guarantee if you get a chance to visit Iran you will get more fair treatment than in Saudi Arabia. Did you know Jews and Arabs live peacefully in Iran and have political representation? Forget Saudi Arabia, could this happen in any Arab country?

 

[Corruptistan]

Wahhabism = Gulf Arabs. Except for the language the other so called Arabs like I said are unique and culturally distinct. They do not treat each other the same way. If 22 Arab countries cannot co-exist as a single nation how does Pakistan fit into this puzzle? ahaha

Iran became Shia only 500 years ago, may be politically its appeals to you more but culturally, as a Pakistani, it does not affect who we are and how our languages arose. We will always be in the league of 'Ajam'

I guarantee if you get a chance to visit Iran you will get more fair treatment than in Saudi Arabia. Did you know Jews and Arabs live peacefully in Iran and have political representation? Forget Saudi Arabia, could this happen in any Arab country?

No, "Wahhabism"/Hanbalis are a small minority even within Saudi Arabia let alone the Arabian Peninsula. The Arabian Peninsula is the origin of not only Islam itself but Sunni and Shia Islam, Sufism and most madhhab's as well. Also there is little to no "Wahhabism" left in Saudi Arabia nowadays.

What has this to do with anything what I wrote? It is a well-known thing that Arabs are divided into nation states much like other ethnic groups. As are most other ethnic groups.

Does not change anything that I wrote or your idiotic logic hence the correct examples that I gave.

Sure, and did you know that 500.000 Iranians live peacefully in UAE alone. The largest Iranian diaspora community in the world if I am not wrong. That Arabs of Arabia and Iranians have lived peacefully side by side since almost forever? Of course I know that there are Arabs in Iran and vice versa.

Far more foreigners/different ethnicities live in the GCC than they do in Iran.

Also I suggest reading up about the mistreatment of minorities in Iran, Arabs included. Start with the Afghans. Once you do that your "Iran perfect" worldview will crumble.

There are what, 50.000 Pakistanis in Iran? In KSA there are almost 3 million Pakistanis (our by far biggest diaspora) who shape the every-day life on almost every level. When I lived in KSA, we had Pakistani schools, shops, restaurants, community centers, Pakistani-run mosques and everything that you could imagine. Whole communities. I never experienced any mistreatment of racism even once. Many within the community never wanted to go back.

Anyway, I can only speak for myself, but I only felt love in Saudi Arabia when I lived there and if that was not the case for the majority, 3 million of us would not be there but in Iran next door instead!