Apache and Chinook helicopter contract before Obama visit ?

[INDIAPOSITIVE]

According to media reports India and United states will clear long pending deal for purchase of 22 Boeing AH-64D Apache Block III attack helicopters and 15 Boeing CH-47F Chinook heavy lift helicopters before Obama visits India on its Republic day on 26th January . Deal valued at $2.5 billion cleared last hurdle when Defence acquisition council (DAC) approved it in August earlier this year .

Boeing AH-64D Apache Block III will replace Russian supplied Mi-35 Hind attack helicopter operated by Indian Air force under Indian Army Command , while Boeing CH-47F Chinook heavy lift helicopters will supplement Russian built Mi-26 in heavy lift operations for Indian Army but currently operated by Indian Air force .

IAF and the Army were engaged in a tussle over the ownership of Apache gunships but the Defence Ministry decided that the two forces can have their separate fleets. While first lot of 22 Apache Block III will be operated by Indian Air force , Recently Defence Ministry also sanctioned purchase of 39 Apache attack helicopters which will be operated directly under Indian Army Aviation Wing and a separate follow up order with United states will be signed at later stage .

IAF is also interested in placing follow up order for supply of 6 more C-17 Heavy lift Transport aircraft and 1 replacement aircraft for C-130J which was lost in accident . Indian Navy too likely will place follow up orders for supply of 4 P-8I Maritime Surveillance aircrafts in later months . Proper supply of Spares and Repairs manuals and on Schedule Delivery of aircrafts ordered by India has helped in changing mindset of Indian military planners who are increasingly looking at United states for supply of more weapons systems to help in India’s military modernization plan .

Apache and Chinook helicopter contract before Obama visit ? | idrw.org

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

Another good news .

 

[ruby007]

So... is it possible to see Apaches with IAF by 2016 end??? i always wondered why the hell it takes years to deliver the system ones the deal is signed ??

 

[sancho]

So... is it possible to see Apaches with IAF by 2016 end??? i always wondered why the hell it takes years to deliver the system ones the deal is signed ??

Delivering them is one thing, being able to operate and support them is another thing. IAF or IA have to prepare themself for the operations and logistics too, suitable weapons and spares for example needs to be procured, pilots and ground crews trained...

 

[Abingdonboy]

So... is it possible to see Apaches with IAF by 2016 end??? i always wondered why the hell it takes years to deliver the system ones the deal is signed ??

As @sancho said, it is not an overnight process because it takes time for the relevant services to attain the requisite level of support infrastructure and skills to operate these machines additionally Boeing don't just have Apaches and Chinooks sat around waiting to be delivered, this isn't like a grocery store. Boeing won't start production of IA/IAF Apaches until they receive the first payment from the GoI and it takes 12+ months to produce a helicopter like an Apache. Add to this the current production like for Apaches is likely bust with existing orders and any orders placed by any new customer will go to the back of the line.

 

[Luca1]

As @sancho said, it is not an overnight process because it takes time for the relevant services to attain the requisite level of support infrastructure and skills to operate these machines additionally Boeing don't just have Apaches and Chinooks sat around waiting to be delivered, this isn't like a grocery store. Boeing won't start production of IA/IAF Apaches until they receive the first payment from the GoI and it takes 12+ months to produce a helicopter like an Apache. Add to this the current production like for Apaches is likely bust with existing orders and any orders placed by any new customer will go to the back of the line.

This is an example of when India purchase something correctly. The RAFALE DEAL SHOW HOW India can screw something up.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The RAFALE DEAL SHOW HOW India can screw something up.

Hardly, it is not the fault of the Indian side for the delays and nothing is "screwed up" the deal will be signed imminently...

 

[Tshering22]

Hardly, it is not the fault of the Indian side for the delays and nothing is "screwed up" the deal will be signed imminently...

Actually, it is the fault of the previous regime that caused this lop-sidedness of our defence. So he as a foreigner does have a point.

A foreign agency doesn't see a BJP or Congress; it sees the 'ruling government of India'.

That's why we Indians have to be sure of whom we raise to the throne so as to avoid 10 years of disaster again.

 

[ruby007]

This is an example of when India purchase something correctly. The RAFALE DEAL SHOW HOW India can screw something up.

Suppose if we have chosen F-18, we could run into the same problems now we're facing... French didn't want to take responsibility for the delay of delivery and ext... do you think US agree for the same terms?? already our Nuclear deal is not signed because US doesn't want to take responsibility

 

[Abingdonboy]

Actually, it is the fault of the previous regime that caused this lop-sidedness of our defence. So he as a foreigner does have a point.

This is factually inaccurate. The issue is with Dassualt and its initial unwillingness to comply to the original RFP in terms of workshare on top of that this deal is incredibly complex and negotiations were always going to take a long time.

 

[Luca1]

Suppose if we have chosen F-18, we could run into the same problems now we're facing... French didn't want to take responsibility for the delay of delivery and ext... do you think US agree for the same terms?? already our Nuclear deal is not signed because US doesn't want to take responsibility

The screw up is that the French cannot take responsibility if they cannot choose their own subcontractors from any where. As a result, they cannot guarantee anything. India should separate purchase of weapons from the development of them. They should just get them off the shelf while ask for tech transfer that is independent of the delivery date of the weapons. What India need is better maintainence so it's planes would not be flying coffins.

 

[Tshering22]

This is factually inaccurate. The issue is with Dassualt and its initial unwillingness to comply to the original RFP in terms of workshare on top of that this deal is incredibly complex and negotiations were always going to take a long time.

Not quite friend. There's a reason why there is an L1 and L2 model.

Simply put, the previous regime and even the current government now, should simply choose L2, especially when they are quoting below L1 now. If the original terms and conditions are not being agreeable, they shouldn't have participated in the tender in the first place.

At that time they were all in.

Looking at what the IAF needs, I think MOD should simply get Typhoons Tranche 3 from Germany and end it. It is not a zero sum game as Dassault has a share in European military consortiums anyway.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Not quite friend. There's a reason why there is an L1 and L2 model.

Simply put, the previous regime and even the current government now, should simply choose L2, especially when they are quoting below L1 now. If the original terms and conditions are not being agreeable, they shouldn't have participated in the tender in the first place.

At that time they were all in.

Looking at what the IAF needs, I think MOD should simply get Typhoons Tranche 3 from Germany and end it. It is not a zero sum game as Dassault has a share in European military consortiums anyway.

Show me another example where the GoI has picked the L2 bidder, there is no precedent for this regardless of whether the the L2 bidder has revised their bid or not (which is itself irrelevant).

 

[ruby007]

The screw up is that the French cannot take responsibility if they cannot choose their own subcontractors from any where. As a result, they cannot guarantee anything. India should separate purchase of weapons from the development of them. They should just get them off the shelf while ask for tech transfer that is independent of the delivery date of the weapons. What India need is better maintainence so it's planes would not be flying coffins.

Delay is depends on french too.....since many of the materials have to be imported from france. suppose if they can't deliver in given time frame then the blame goes on them right...

our mantain facilities are not that bad as you think...