Any Valid Reason to Hate Doctor Tahirul Qadri as a Visionary Politician?

[Ra'ad]

@ahmadnawaz22
The truth is there are 2 types of religious people. Ones that seek fame and popularity. They are the fake ones. The ones that seek God, live rather secluded lives, away from public. They do not show how 'naik' they are to the public, and that they have dreams in which they see the Prophet (Saw). These people are fake. I don't understand how our people are so ignorant and foolish like lambs. Following anybody on a whim. Thats why we pakistani's have always been fooled and used by politicians and pseudo-religious personalities.

O bhai pious people to dolat se door bhagte hain, dolat jama nai karte! If he wants to be close to God, he should learn something from Edhi, and accumulate 'real' wealth by spending his wealth in charity. But No!. Everything he does is just the opposite, and will not only bring a bad name to religious people, in fact the pakistani people will be only more disillusioned by religious people. The word molvi is itself used as a derogatory term, only because of the religious people who use the religion card to gather followers, and fame, and popularity, and ultimately wealth. BAD people bring a BAD name to our religion and all other religious people.

I do not need to be an expert analyst to see who he really is. I can see it crystal clear that he is here to enter into politics and that he seeks power and money. Warna uska dimag kharab hai canada chor ke yehan garmi main sarr rha hai.

 

[Zhukov]

Well, I've seen a few shuyukh criticise the dream he claimed to have had, with the refutations being:

Why would our nabi SAWS ask him for a plane ticket to Mecca/Medina out of all people?

Other refutations to him as an individual would be things such as why he celebrated Christmas with the Pakistani Christian community. There are also other things regarding Shirk and Bidah that he has committed.

By the way these aren't my words, I hold no opinion on him. I would have to research him to do that. The only thing I know about him is that he visited Allama Fultali Saheb in Bangladesh once, so he must be more Sufi orientated.

Sorry Dear if you please keep the discussion to purely political social and not religious. We all know the pious and Islamic Pasts of Imran Khan Nawaz and Shehbaz Sharif Benazir Bhutto and all of them. So please. Avoid in depth religious analysis. Or if you do hate every living politician with same intensity.
Thats double standards

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

MUQ is an international Organisation. It can hold properties in many countries. And holding a house in canada is a reason for hate? interssting. And the royalty income of 1000+ books? is that haraam? strange

give answer of this simple question

Why this Qadri is not living a simple life the way his poor follower are living in Pakistan if he is talking about sahabas then he should be leading a simple life. Why he has one standard for himself and different for others. He want to bring change in Pakistan by living in Canada lol He let others die for his political game and motives ..These mullahs are so hypocrite . they use their dumb devout followers for their political gains and funding so that they could live a decent life

 

[Zhukov]

Guys look at these arguments you are making. Thats the precise reason why we have this lot of politicians. And thats why Pakistanis are suffering.
We dont even know what properties there should be in a politician and leader.
Sad

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

And if he Gives up canadian Citizenship will your hatered be finished in this resoect? and you fail to mention other criterias for being a member of parliment. which 98% of members do not meet. I see you have no problem there. Strange argument again

Hatred is a strong word my friend. Dislike is how I would put it. Dislike because he is not a visionary but rather a marionette. Before I stray from my present line of thought, allow me this opportunity to answer your question. If Tahir does in fact renounce his Canadian citizenship then, for all purposes constitutional, he may file his nomination papers and contest the elections and there shall be no bar disqualifying him from becoming a member of the Parliament. Here's my question to you, do you think he will? Did he when he came last time? And, why didn't he when he promised to sit-in on D-Chowk and bring the much vaunted Inqelaab?

Now before I answer my own question, pending your thoughts on the topic of course, allow me to shed light on where his allegiance lies presently. Under section 24 of the Canadian Citizenship Act 1985, all Canadian nationals must, on oath, make the following pledge:

"From this day forward, I pledge my loyalty and allegiance to Canada and Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada. I promise to respect our country's Rights and freedoms, to uphold our democratic values, to faithfully observe our laws and fulfill my duties and obligations as a Canadian citizen."

Please tell me, this is as embarrassing to you as it is to me. A revered Islamic scholar who, for the safety and guarantee of his life which, as he must very well know, is the sole dominion of Allah Subhanu wa'taalah, has pledged allegiance to a former colonial master in return for what, a few years of luxury and amenities? Not the work of a visionary, my friend, but rather the handiwork of the devil. My "grudge" against Tahir is not personal, but rather a matter of principle.

What Pakistan needs, is not a preacher, but a politician...not like the ones we have now, oh dear Lord no! But not like Tahir either. We need men who are honest, do not exploit religion to achieve power, fame and a following, are humble, are not delusional, are not funded by the ISI, are not traitors who have sworn allegiance to a foreign country, do not ride high on the funds of their "shagirds", does not intervene unconstitutionally during the elected period of the government, does not block access roads for the sake of protesting and, in the process, cause severe disturbance and disruption to the locality, does not pretend to be the sole authority on religion, does not claim to be the only righteous and deserving person in the society, and so on and so forth....It isn't very hard to glean from the foregoing that all these attributes ring true in the case of Mr. Tahir. Unfortunate, but true.

Here's my advice, do not derail the system. Please. If Tahir had any respect for our constitution he would not have boycotted the previous elections, would not be seeking to end the present government and would have waited till the next round of elections to be elected, so that they people, if they find him deserving, give him the mandate as per the constitutional promise of this motherland of ours.

 

[Saiful Islam]

Sorry Dear if you please keep the discussion to purely political social and not religious. We all know the pious and Islamic Pasts of Imran Khan Nawaz and Shehbaz Sharif Benazir Bhutto and all of them. So please. Avoid in depth religious analysis. Or if you do hate every living politician with same intensity.
Thats double standards

I am not your dear. And okay thanks for clearing that up.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

Ummm and that catagorises PM Nawaz sharif in the same category after his assylum in Saudi Arabia? and Benazir bhutto in 80's? yes?

There is a contrast to be made here. Neither Nawaz, nor Benzair, sought the nationality of the countries to which they fled. Having said the foregoing, do not assume that I am a well-wisher of either Nawaz or Benazir.

To lead Pakistan, you must believe in Pakistan. You must pledge your allegiance to her and be prepared to make any sacrifice for her - even the sacrifice of your life.

 

[Zhukov]

Hatred is a strong word my friend. Dislike is how I would put it. Dislike because he is not a visionary but rather a marionette. Before I stray from my present line of thought, allow me this opportunity to answer your question. If Tahir does in fact renounce his Canadian citizenship then, for all purposes constitutional, he may file his nomination papers and contest the elections and there shall be no bar disqualifying him from becoming a member of the Parliament. Here's my question to you, do you think he will? Did he when he came last time? And, why didn't he when he promised to sit-in on D-Chowk and bring the much vaunted Inqelaab?

Now before I answer my own question, pending your thoughts on the topic of course, allow me to shed light on where his allegiance lies presently. Under section 24 of the Canadian Citizenship Act 1985, all Canadian nationals must, on oath, make the following pledge:



Please tell me, this is as embarrassing to you as it is to me. A revered Islamic scholar who, for the safety and guarantee of his life which, as he must very well know, is the sole dominion of Allah Subhanu wa'taalah, has pledged allegiance to a former colonial master in return for what, a few years of luxury and amenities? Not the work of a visionary, my friend, but rather the handiwork of the devil. My "grudge" against Tahir is not personal, but rather a matter of principle.

What Pakistan needs, is not a preacher, but a politician...not like the ones we have now, oh dear Lord no! But not like Tahir either. We need men who are honest, do not exploit religion to achieve power, fame and a following, are humble, are not delusional, are not funded by the ISI, are not traitors who have sworn allegiance to a foreign country, do not ride high on the funds of their "shagirds", does not intervene unconstitutionally during the elected period of the government, does not block access roads for the sake of protesting and, in the process, cause severe disturbance and disruption to the locality, does not pretend to be the sole authority on religion, does not claim to be the only righteous and deserving person in the society, and so on and so forth....It isn't very hard to glean from the foregoing that all these attributes ring true in the case of Mr. Tahir. Unfortunate, but true.

Here's my advice, do not derail the system. Please. If Tahir had any respect for our constitution he would not have boycotted the previous elections, would not be seeking to end the present government and would have waited till the next round of elections to be elected, so that they people, if they find him deserving, give him the mandate as per the constitutional promise of this motherland of ours.

1- He had to pull out because MQM and PTI betrayed at the last minute. And JI went to Jati Umrao. Thats simple.More People didnt came and those who were already there were dying. And it was smart move at the end so that everyone can witness what change can come with the so called Ekections
2-change through Elections in indipendent electorates voting system? many people have tried it including Zulfiqar ali bhutto IK and TUQ himself. sorry mate i believe either you know nothing of on ground politics in Pakistan here or you belong to a well of Family ignoring the ground realities.
3-State the same opinnion for all muslims and clerics living is Canada Europe USA Russia and China. Then i will be with you
4-Go to a thana or court or a patwari or admit your ill as a common man in a government hospital for real, then we will talk about the SYSTEM that shoukd not be derailed
5-PMLN have punjab administration under it for 6 years DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTEd and what wonders they have done with Punjab Police Courts Schools Colleges Hospitals. for me thats long enough to see. You may well wait 50 to 100 more years for that supposed CHANGE to come
6-Only those provisions of Constitution are applied that serve needa of Leaders. Those provisions that demand steps for public welfare are never implemented like free and mendatory education for every one upto age of 16. So much for Soldiers of Constitutions

 

[ssethii]

Now before I answer my own question, pending your thoughts on the topic of course, allow me to shed light on where his allegiance lies presently. Under section 24 of the Canadian Citizenship Act 1985, all Canadian nationals must, on oath, make the following pledge:

There is nothing embarrassing in this oath. You are going to eat the bread and butter of this country for your remaining life so what if they ask a pledge of loyalty and allegiance in return isn't that what we are taught don't shit where you eat?

 

[Zhukov]

@ahmadnawaz22
The truth is there are 2 types of religious people. Ones that seek fame and popularity. They are the fake ones. The ones that seek God, live rather secluded lives, away from public. They do not show how 'naik' they are to the public, and that they have dreams in which they see the Prophet (Saw). These people are fake. I don't understand how our people are so ignorant and foolish like lambs. Following anybody on a whim. Thats why we pakistani's have always been fooled and used by politicians and pseudo-religious personalities.

O bhai pious people to dolat se door bhagte hain, dolat jama nai karte! If he wants to be close to God, he should learn something from Edhi, and accumulate 'real' wealth by spending his wealth in charity. But No!. Everything he does is just the opposite, and will not only bring a bad name to religious people, in fact the pakistani people will be only more disillusioned by religious people. The word molvi is itself used as a derogatory term, only because of the religious people who use the religion card to gather followers, and fame, and popularity, and ultimately wealth. BAD people bring a BAD name to our religion and all other religious people.

I do not need to be an expert analyst to see who he really is. I can see it crystal clear that he is here to enter into politics and that he seeks power and money. Warna uska dimag kharab hai canada chor ke yehan garmi main sarr rha hai.

Keeo Religion out of the equition for instance. Lets talk Politics only. You cannot run such vast Tablighi and welfare institute without cash. Nobody will give you permission to print even Quran e Pak for "Allah Wastey" Thats peimitive out of context and Ameture argument of "Sachey alim pesey se dur bhagtey".
Hijaaz sharif ka nizaam kya Allah wastey chalta hai? Ya Tablighi jamaat bhi bagher pesey ke khud hi chalti hai?

How do you suppose to struggle for Grass root democracy steuggle for People of Pakistan? By sitting in a small house and doing nothing?

Changez khan ne Bagdaad mei bethey Allah se dua kartey sab ulama ki gardanen ura din thin Tareekh se sabaq seekho

Canada ka sakuun chor ke Oak sarzameen ana mere nazdeeq to Gharibon ke kiey jadojehad hai. Aap isey koi dusra rang de lo bina sabuut ke to aap ki marzi

 

[ssethii]

There is a contrast to be made here. Neither Nawaz, nor Benzair, sought the nationality of the countries to which they fled. Having said the foregoing, do not assume that I am a well-wisher of either Nawaz or Benazir.

To lead Pakistan, you must believe in Pakistan. You must pledge your allegiance to her and be prepared to make any sacrifice for her - even the sacrifice of your life.

Actions speak louder then words. We all can make this speech but only few are willing to do something for your country. Its also natural and also lawful that everyone's nationality is judged by his/her birth place. He is as much Pakistani as any other living in Pakistan.

 

[Zhukov]

Still waiting for something solid. Considering we have current politicians in the SYSTEM THAT SHOULD NOT BE DERAILED. BB who backstabbed sikhs of Khalsa tehreek and gave lists of Khalistan movement leaders to india and NS who dis the same by handing over Kashmiri mujahideen lists to Mr Gujraal?(Not preaching anti Indian sentiments. Just saying thats backstabbing).
Or Mr10% Zardari? Or the famous MOLANAFazlurehman.
Anyone?

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

1- He had to pull out because MQM and PTI betrayed at the last minute. And JI went to Jati Umrao. Thats simple.More People didnt came and those who were already there were dying. And it was smart move at the end so that everyone can witness what change can come with the so called Ekections
2-change through Elections in indipendent electorates voting system? many people have tried it including Zulfiqar ali bhutto IK and TUQ himself. sorry mate i believe either you know nothing of on ground politics in Pakistan here or you belong to a well of Family ignoring the ground realities.
3-State the same opinnion for all muslims and clerics living is Canada Europe USA Russia and China. Then i will be with you
4-Go to a thana or court or a patwari or admit your ill as a common man in a government hospital for real, then we will talk about the SYSTEM that shoukd not be derailed
5-PMLN have punjab administration under it for 6 years DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTEd and what wonders they have done with Punjab Police Courts Schools Colleges Hospitals. for me thats long enough to see. You may well wait 50 to 100 more years for that supposed CHANGE to come
6-Only those provisions of Constitution are applied that serve needa of Leaders. Those provisions that demand steps for public welfare are never implemented like free and mendatory education for every one upto age of 16. So much for Soldiers of Constitutions

1. How exactly did PTI and MQM betray PAT? Both PTI and MQM made government in their respective quarters. ALthough PTI;s tsunami did not sweep us into abject poverty, for which I am grateful, because IK's performance as a politician has shed light on his woeful incompetence. The change which was to come through the elections, is gathering momentum my friend. As much as I disagree with the ill-begotten policies of the younger Sharif, I must say that his elder brother, and our current PM, is slowly but surely guiding us to economic progress. The fact of the matter is the current government is composed of seasoned politicians who have the acumen and the leverage necessary for decision-making at the pinnacle of electoral power. Tahir, on the other hand, is a cleric whose drive is seeded in the tenets of faith. He is emotional, erratic, inexperienced, and worthy only of the puplit which he presently commands. Do you really think Tahir has the political vision to steer this country out of its present rut? I was a handed a flier today, a flier being distributed by a PAT-worker? It was a surmise of his vision and a testament to how he would turn this country around...It was horrendous. I'll look for it in my office and post a picture on this forum. You won't believe your eyes.

2. I don't exactly understand what you mean. Many have tried...so? Many have also succeeded. The reason we stand where we do today, granted our misgivings, is because somebody, somewhere along our brief but tumultous history has done the right thing and taken the right decisions. Nations are not built in a span of a week, or two. "Inqelaab" is an elusive and overrated concept. It is often interpreted as an overwhelming change in national consensus and thought to be the very basis whereby Pakistan will spring to life and we will all be one nation, one religion, one culture, one people, without corruption, without vice, with all the riches in the world, a caliphate... Really? That is never going to happen. Absolutely never. We must celebrate our diversity and find solace and strength in the many shades of colour which we adorn. Whether Christian or Muslim, whether Punjabi or Balochi, we will never wear the same shade, but we will always be the same unit. We are patches on the same cloth, we don't need a revolution...we just need a good washing. And washing, will happen when the system matures, when you let it run its course.

3. Not all Muslim clerics are Pakistani. My opinion does not concern a Russian Muslim who is also a citizen of Canada. he will never be at the helm of our great nation. But a Pakistani, who has revoked his nationality (or at least put it in abeyance) is a concerning development.

4. Ah. Young and foolish friend of mine. Do you mean to say nothing in Pakistan works? We are all destitute and disease-ridden cannibals living in tents, hunting for food and wearing grass for clothes? That's right, no. we are not because at some level our system works. Derailing it will through us into chaos. Let's not let that happen.

5. Maybe, maybe not. Let's see how this term goes. If ywe don't like them a the end of it, i'll vote for Tahir with you.

6. All the more reason to use the system. Tell me where it's lacking, if in your area, and I will give you free legal advice to institute a writ under article 199 of the Constitution, appear in person for the hearings as well, guarantee a decision by the end of this year, and we shall ensure that the Government performs its duties.

There is nothing embarrassing in this oath. You are going to eat the bread and butter of this country for your remaining life so what if they ask a pledge of loyalty and allegiance in return isn't that what we are taught don't shit where you eat?

Whoa. Hardcore aren't you. Haha. There is nothing wrong with pledging allegiance to a nation-state of your choice. I stand for free will. And I like how you put it: "You are going to eat the bread and butter of this country [the country to whom your pledging allegiance] for your remaining life so what if they ask a pledge of loyalty..." (emphasis added).

Please remind Tahir that he now lies loyal to Canada and that there is no place for him in Pakistan.

Actions speak louder then words. We all can make this speech but only few are willing to do something for your country. Its also natural and also lawful that everyone's nationality is judged by his/her birth place. He is as much Pakistani as any other living in Pakistan.

Ah, here's where you're mistaken my friend. I wasn't born in this land of ours, but my nationality is Pakistani. It is a matter of choice, as much as it is a matter of plain dumb-luck. Actions do speak louder than words so don't elect a person who's good with speeches, pick the person who delivers!

 

[Ra'ad]

Still waiting for something solid. Considering we have current politicians in the SYSTEM THAT SHOULD NOT BE DERAILED. BB who backstabbed sikhs of Khalsa tehreek and gave lists of Khalistan movement leaders to india and NS who dis the same by handing over Kashmiri mujahideen lists to Mr Gujraal?(Not preaching anti Indian sentiments. Just saying thats backstabbing).
Or Mr10% Zardari? Or the famous MOLANAFazlurehman.
Anyone?

I do not support any politicians, just for info. So i would not argue how he's not as good as others.

Lets discuss this as Pakistanis. Coz both of us are. What does he want to achieve? How does he want to achieve it? If he wants to bring a revolution, he would need followers. Does he have em?

If he wants the Pakistani people to follow him, and show others that Pakistani's indeed DO follow him, he should wait for the next election, get elected, preferably by a large majority, and the whole Pakistani quom would stand behind him in solidarity. He can bring whatever reforms he has in his vision.

But if he doubts that he'll get any more votes than the other religious parties (which btw receive only 5-10% on average in every election), and so his best chance lies in spreading chaos while another party is completing its term, its counter productive and bad for the country.

You should explain it clearly: for what reason should the Pakistanis support him? If he's asking support in election, he should participate in one and lay forward his points. But if he wants the Pakistani to support him in blocking roads, holding rallies, and creating law and order situation....its a NO. We are already in a pretty fragile situation thanks to zardari era. While the present govt tries to revive the economy, we need to keep the country as peaceful as possible. Right now our prime focus is economy. Not that imran khan got less seats, or that Dr sahab wants to bring a revolution. We cannot afford instability right now. We'll judge the present govt after 5 years by looking at Pakistan's economy. At that time Dr sahab can come claim his share of mandate in the next elections.

 

[ssethii]

@TheFlyingPretzel I rest my case by again saying there is nothing wrong with that oath and the one who has taken it doesn't become a lesser Pakistani.
you are automatically loyal to your birth place unless proven otherwise and that's ones birth right too.