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Any questions Regarding India

I have been wanting to ask about this genetic studies...You see, many publications actually state which DNA they studied...There are certain "stuff" which is passed SOLELY through the Y chromosome and some ONLY found in the X...SO, I wanted to know if the studies were done on both genders and were these characteristics chromosomal distributed?!

This would be able to tell us if the Aryans who moved were maybe only men? If so, then the Y would carry an imprint from the Aryans while the X would be the original people of India...However if women were also part of the move then there would be mixture...So, if anyone can give me a link to that study I would be interested in browsing through. Because whoever talks about this genetic studies ONLY states it as : "A genetic study was done on Indians..." But I am yet to find a detailed version and read it myself!

This may help

AJHG - Shared and Unique Components of Human Population Structure and Genome-Wide Signals of Positive Selection in South Asia
ScienceDirect.com - The American Journal of Human Genetics - Shared and Unique Components of Human Population Structure and Genome-Wide Signals of Positive Selection in South Asia


Well, you are using the Hindu scriptures to measure the time of the migration and who migrated from where rather than using the archaeologist evidence to match the time of the scriptures and migration...

I'm doing no such thing, religious scriptures are the only early proof of an "Aryan" presence and there is very little archaeological proof available. The only proof offered for a "migration" is linguistic, not archaeological.


Since it is clear from archaeological discoveries that men moved out of AFRICA...Could it be that the 1st migration split into 2 groups - 1 moving to South Asia while another staying near Iran and other countries mentioned? Hence, having a similar language?

Anything is possible but the dates for that migration out of Africa is considerably at a much earlier date than the available evidence for a proto Indo-European people.


If Grey Ware sites were dated 1000 BC this means hat the 3800 BC theory is wrong...and that it was not dried out long before....1000 years BC () is more recent than 3800 theory

How do you figure that? I hold no brief for any of the dates, just that these are the dates offered by those who studied this.

When the date of 1000 BCE was given as the timeline for painted grey ware sites on the bed of the river, it was only to suggest that regardless of when the river actually dried out as per different theories, we can be certain that it was a dead river by 1000 BCE. This is important because the Rg veda is dated by those who believe in the AIT at about 1500 BCE onwards. Since the Rg veda (composed over generations) mentions a river in fuller flow & the much later Mahabharata refers to it as being in the process of drying out, the dating may be brought to question.

Sorry I am lost in the 1st para itself :(

King kills boy accidently...King is cursed and his son dies...then who is this "son"??

The first refers to the Epic "Ramayana" & the second to the " Mahabharata", both excellent reads regardless of religious orientation.

Oh don't worry about that I ask ALOT of questions...Usually get told off but still have the habit :P

My question:

How old is the vedas? Because you are talking about Buddha in here....and as previous posters wrote that it talks mostly about India, was Hinduism for India only? I mean I think throughout the thread (sorry I MIGHT be combining a few theories with the vedas...been reading some posts)..

Was the vedas brought to the IVC people or did they inherit it? I mean how did it come to being the book? Was there messenger? How long did it take for the book to reveal? Because it states alot of stuff and about the flood and does it talk about Buddhism? If it does wouldn't it suggest it came AFTER Buddhism otherwise how can a religion which is older than Buddhism talk about Buddha?

The vedas are the oldest known Aryan compositions but as my comments earlier indicate, difficult to get everyone to agree on dates. However, everyone agrees it was 1500 BCE or before (for the Rg veda), something that would predate the Buddha by about 1000 years at the very least. It was not written down, passed on orally from one generation to another for well over a millennium & was composed by Rishis, some from families (the family mandalas) & others by individual rishis.

There are four vedas, the Rg veda being the oldest & most prominent. They make no mention of Buddha but since Hinduism always evolved continually, later religious texts did make reference to the Buddha.
 
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Will India ever acknowledge that Pakistan is better than them in every way?
A simple "Yes" "No" or "Maybe" to this question will suffice.;)

you are 1000 times better than us in space program,particle accelerators,supercomputers,metro rail and skyscrapers
 
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No maam. What was there before Hinduism or how Hinduism came to the subcontinent is still shrouded in mystery and hence cant say for sure that it was alien. None of the Vedas - the earliest scriptures in Hinduism have any reference to any land other than the subcontinent and this about 2000 years before Christ was conceived. So for all intents and purposes, Hinduism was founded on this land and hence native to this land. I'll requote what I said in a earlier post :

Unfortunately same cant be said of Islam in the subcontinent. People may have learnt to live with each other..but does that change the fact that Islam was conceived in the Middle East, its Rasool is an Arab, its initial warriors were all Arab, the Khalifa Rshidun were all Arab, the epic battles were all set in Arabia and the sacred places are in Arabia ? Hence the dichotomy.

Aryans as according to most historians were people who moved from a different place and settled in India with the Indians...

Indo-Aryan migration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hmmm....
In tracing the Brahmin ancestry, the best evidence seen thus far is their religious affinity to the Rg Veda. That is why they are often referred to as the Vedic people.2 The earliest evidence of Vedic worship is seen in on a cuneiform tablet excavated at El-Amarna in Egypt, on a document from Bogazkoy in Anatolia (Asia Minor)3. The tablet is in Hittite cuneiform and written in the Akkadian language, and is an adjunct to a treaty between the Hittite king Suppiluliuma and his son-in-law, the Mitannian king Kurtiwaza, and it contains a long list of the gods of the peoples who were parties to it.4 The tablet is dated around the 14th century BC.
The gods are invoked to witness the conclusion of the treaty and guarantee its observance. The gods of the Mitannians are named in these forms: Mi-it-ra, U-ru-ua-na, In-da-ra, and Na-sa-at-ti-ia-an-na. It is evident that these names correspond to Mitra, Varuna, Indra, and Nasatuau of the Vedic pantheon. The following curse is pronounced against the Mitannians: “If you, Kurtiwaza, the prince, and the sons of the Hurri country do not fulfill the words of the treaty, may the gods, the lords of earth, blot you out, you and the Hurri men together with your country, your wives, and all that you have” .

In this treatise, Mithra (or Mitra) is invoked as the god of contract and mutual obligation. In short Mithra may signify any kind of communication between men and whatever establishes relations between them.6 The treatise is in the time frame of Israel invading the land of Canaan and their occupation causes a migratory movement in Canaan and surrounding areas. Thus these early Vedic elements spread to other nations.

The Impact of the Aryans and Vedas on the Religions of India

According to this...Origin of Hinduism can be linked to Egypt!

No maam. What was there before Hinduism or how Hinduism came to the subcontinent is still shrouded in mystery and hence cant say for sure that it was alien. None of the Vedas - the earliest scriptures in Hinduism have any reference to any land other than the subcontinent and this about 2000 years before Christ was conceived. So for all intents and purposes, Hinduism was founded on this land and hence native to this land. I'll requote what I said in a earlier post :

Unfortunately same cant be said of Islam in the subcontinent. People may have learnt to live with each other..but does that change the fact that Islam was conceived in the Middle East, its Rasool is an Arab, its initial warriors were all Arab, the Khalifa Rshidun were all Arab, the epic battles were all set in Arabia and the sacred places are in Arabia ? Hence the dichotomy.

Aryans as according to most historians were people who moved from a different place and settled in India with the Indians...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration

Hmmm....
In tracing the Brahmin ancestry, the best evidence seen thus far is their religious affinity to the Rg Veda. That is why they are often referred to as the Vedic people.2 The earliest evidence of Vedic worship is seen in on a cuneiform tablet excavated at El-Amarna in Egypt, on a document from Bogazkoy in Anatolia (Asia Minor)3. The tablet is in Hittite cuneiform and written in the Akkadian language, and is an adjunct to a treaty between the Hittite king Suppiluliuma and his son-in-law, the Mitannian king Kurtiwaza, and it contains a long list of the gods of the peoples who were parties to it.4 The tablet is dated around the 14th century BC.
The gods are invoked to witness the conclusion of the treaty and guarantee its observance. The gods of the Mitannians are named in these forms: Mi-it-ra, U-ru-ua-na, In-da-ra, and Na-sa-at-ti-ia-an-na. It is evident that these names correspond to Mitra, Varuna, Indra, and Nasatuau of the Vedic pantheon. The following curse is pronounced against the Mitannians: “If you, Kurtiwaza, the prince, and the sons of the Hurri country do not fulfill the words of the treaty, may the gods, the lords of earth, blot you out, you and the Hurri men together with your country, your wives, and all that you have” .

In this treatise, Mithra (or Mitra) is invoked as the god of contract and mutual obligation. In short Mithra may signify any kind of communication between men and whatever establishes relations between them.6 The treatise is in the time frame of Israel invading the land of Canaan and their occupation causes a migratory movement in Canaan and surrounding areas. Thus these early Vedic elements spread to other nations.

http://appiusforum.net/aryans.html

According to this...Origin of Hinduism can be linked to Egypt!

In fact the article puts Rajputs as foreigners too:

In India, the first evidence of Vedic worship is seen in 183 BC in the Sunga Empire,

For some fifty years Mauryan kings continued to rule in Magadha until about 183 BC when Pusyamitra Sunga, a brahman general of Brhadratha, the last Mauryan king, succeeded in gaining power by a palace revolution. Pusyamitra was a supporter of the orthodox faith and revived the ancient Vedic sacrifices, including the horse sacrifice.18

Most scholars agree that the Sungas were the ancestors of the Brahmins, though they were not called Brahmins at this time. However, their affinity to the Vedic practices and the usage of Mitra in their names (Pusyamitra’s son was called Agnimitra) are evidence that they were Vedic people. The Sungas were overthrown by the Kanvas in 72 BC, and the Kanva dynasty came to an end in 28 BC. The Kanvas are also considered in the Brahmin ancestry.19 The Sungas and the Kanvas were weak empires which did not last very long.
Thus the present Brahmin race can be traced from the Sunga empire through Persia to western Asia. They were nomads and their gods were inspired by nature and sacrifice is an important part of their ritual. However,

“Sacrificial ritual was beginning to be replaced by the practice of bhakti (personal devotion), positing a personal relationship between the individual and the deity”20

The numerous Vedic deities lost significance and,

The numerous solar deities of the Vedas were merged in Hinduism into a single god, usually known as Surya (“the Sun”)21

Numerous temples of the sun are found in Gupta and medieval times. Amongst these is the “Black Pagoda” of Konarak, Orissa, built in the 13th century AD. This sun temple contains very explicit pornographic sculptures.22
After the fall of the Sungas and Kanvas nothing significant is heard of the Brahmin ancestors for a while and there was religious and social harmony in the land,

Till the close of the sixth century AD different religious sects lived together in admirable harmony.23

However, after the death of Harshavardhana in 647 AD, his empire crumbled and there was great confusion in India. From this confusion arose the Rajputs,

The Rajputs maintained their unchallenged supremacy over northern India from the death of Harsha to the first Turk invasion. That is why, the period between 647 to 1200 AD is known as the Rajput period.24

and

The Rajputs were the descendants of Sakas, Hunas, and Kushans who came to India and settled here. Later, they entirely mixed themselves in the Indian society and almost lost their individuality.25

The foreign origin of the Rajputs is based on the fact that the word Rajput does not appear in ancient Sanskrit literature prior to the rise of the Hunas.26

http://appiusforum.net/aryans.html
 
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Vedas was given to Hindus by aliens and translated into sanskrit. The people wrote it to fool general population. :(
 
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Aryans as according to most historians were people who moved from a different place and settled in India with the Indians...

Indo-Aryan migration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hmmm....


The Impact of the Aryans and Vedas on the Religions of India

According to this...Origin of Hinduism can be linked to Egypt!



Aryans as according to most historians were people who moved from a different place and settled in India with the Indians...

Indo-Aryan migration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hmmm....


The Impact of the Aryans and Vedas on the Religions of India

According to this...Origin of Hinduism can be linked to Egypt!

In fact the article puts Rajputs as foreigners too:



The Impact of the Aryans and Vedas on the Religions of India

Many historians believe that Aryans came into India and changed the Hinduism practiced there...hence, the new religion is basically a manipulation of the Aryans....making it the origin from foreigners no?

The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia: Language, Material Culture and Ethnicity - George Erdösy - Google Libri

According to this: India Chronology

Aryans came first to India than the Vedas started...meaning foreigners introduced it?

You do understand the difference between a blog-site and an authoritative history text?
 
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Will look through that in abit

I'm doing no such thing, religious scriptures are the only early proof of an "Aryan" presence and there is very little archaeological proof available. The only proof offered for a "migration" is linguistic, not archaeological.


Nope, there are other proofs....Archaeological proofs include pots/ tools/ weapons/ graves/ writings on caves/ bones and stuff from genetics...all these things can be used AND have been used..read my links!

You do understand the difference between a blog-site and an authoritative history text?

hehehe...The blog site had references written below...

plus i have put up a book or 2...was browsing 3-4 but couldn't understand some so put up what I read...
 
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Wiki itself had references to books...thats why i quoted it..and only quoted 1 forum which i didn't realize is a forum until after i posted......
 
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Read the book like a swords and sorcery book by, say, Robert Jordan. It is actually better. The king losing his son was about losing his son to a period of exile. The prince didn't die.

Oh ok! Thats fine then :)
 
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Wiki itself had references to books...thats why i quoted it..and only quoted 1 forum which i didn't realize is a forum until after i posted......


<sigh>

Do you realize how much work it would take to demolish that blog wrong statement by wrong statement ( they are mixed with true statements, so all the more painful to separate)?

Do you really, really want to know the answers? You will get them, but only if you ask, and really want to know.
 
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Vedas was given to Hindus by aliens and translated into sanskrit. The people wrote it to fool general population. :(

Huh? Sorry I did not mean it that way, my point was those who wrote the vedas... ACCORDING to previous posts were ALSO from foreigners!

you are 1000 times better than us in space program,particle accelerators,supercomputers,metro rail and skyscrapers

serious sarcasm??
 
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. However, compared to Pakistani populations, a higher proportion of their genes show regionally specific signals of high haplotype homozygosity. Among such candidates of positive selection in India are MSTN and DOK5, both of which have potential implications in lipid metabolism and the etiology of type 2 diabetes.
Man! I hoe the guy has scientific proof (data) of the Pakistani populations! Otherwise this is horrendous! I mean even in science he is comparing with Pakistan!
If he does, I am fine with his findings but he should have put the data in the abstract too!

<sigh>

Do you realize how much work it would take to demolish that blog wrong statement by wrong statement ( they are mixed with true statements, so all the more painful to separate)?

Do you really, really want to know the answers? You will get them, but only if you ask, and really want to know.

A simplified version would do as I have to go make some snack...Can't read much nor understand what I read on empty stomach! :P

Heh, heh.

If I tell you the truth, Bang Galore and Bhairava will kill me!

Btw, don't trust them an inch!

Thanks for the honesty and warning! ;)
 
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