Any Accountants, CPA's or CA's over here? Looking for Career Advice

[The Accountant]

Well sir, its not like comparing apples with oranges or civil engineering with bio engineering, both accounting and finance are different but closely related subjects. Finance is a broader concept and decisions in financial matters are made on accounting data presented in the form of financial statements.
I suggested him CFA because IMO, accountancy is a dry field, and you may get bored by applying the same laws and rules over and over again, and its possible that in future, automation may replace some of accountancy jobs. So if you like challenges and want to earn a hefty amount of money, better opt for CFA.

No buddy ... again confusion due to common word of finance ... CPA and CA are completely different trajectories... In Pakistan normally only best of the best qualify CA therefore they fit into alot of roles which involves finance but CA and CFA are completely different jobs and different type of organizations... I am giving a brief difference for the understanding of all:

CFA is analytics jobs of financial instruments and financial market just as bonds, shares, stock markets, futures and other investments. CFA can find jobs as investment bankers, banks risk departments, mutual funds or any other type of funds. CFA is a specialist type of job and cannot fit in generic jobs of accounting and finance. For example a CFA cannot find a job outside Banks, mutual funds, brokerage house of other similar investment related institutes.

CA is an entirely different qualification which is more about accounting and finance of an individual organization. Whereas CFA is about investment finance.
As CA your prime career path is either is partner of an audit firm of as CFO of a company. BUt CAs are not capable of doing specialist job of investment appraisals and investment banking.
In Pakistan big 4 audit firms generally able to grab a cream of the finance industry therefore they are able to produce professionals that has ability to gel into any professional role and thats the reasons we see CAs working as investment bankers and risk advisors of banks but CA as a qualification never teaches us the skill.

A brief background, i completed my Bachelors and MBA from IBA in Pakistan in 2010. I then immigrated to Canada in 2012 after having worked in a bank in Pakistan for 2 years.

When i decided to pursue the accounting field and main accounting designation in Canada i.e. CPA way back in 2012, i did it primarily because of family pressure as everyone has this idea that is the golden ticket to riches. I also went through the main accounting bodies brochures in Canada back then where they constantly presented statistics i.e. the average salaries CPA's make upon designation, in 5 years and in 10 years i.e. $120,000-140,000 plus and how the designation open's doors for you. Ideally speaking one should do what they love to do and have a passion for but that was not the case with me, i followed the herd and of course my parents themselves being highly successful doctors kept impressing on me on the need to constantly upgrade your skills and qualifications in today's very competitive world where just a simple Bachelors or Masters was not enough and given that all my aunts, uncles were PHD graduates from the top notch universities, there was that pressure to keep up. The other problem was that i was always a very shy, introverted individual and my social skills were far from ideal and it was always drilled in me that i would be a complete misfit for a sales, marketing role and that i was far better off doing something like numbers crunching, something that was prescribed and involved basic compliance and therefore accounting was a better fit for me and my personality. Bottomline is i didn't put a lot of thought into what impact my decision to pursue this field would have in the long run for me back then and had i known the true realities of what life in an accounting was like back then and had i known what i would go through, i may have made a different decision in hindsight.

I have worked in accounting in an accounting firm environment for 4 years now and i am approaching my 5th busy season as the tax filing deadline in Canada is April 30th. Since 2015, i have worked in 5 small sole practictioner accounting practices where i quit one firm and got fired from 4 others. I had absolutely zero idea about the pressure cooker working environment realities of accounting firms. It was way too fast paced for my liking, no concept of training and mentorship, you were basically thrown into things from day one, files were slammed on your desk from day one and then it was basically sink or swim. Having a really bad senior or manager or partner to report too makes the problem ten times worse and can really break and shatter your confidence.

The present accounting firm i am working for is a mid sized accounting firm and it is the largest and the best accounting firm i have worked in so far in my career for now where even though the work can be stressful at times, the working environment i have to say has been the best so far.

Unlike a few people i was fortunate enough to break into various different accounting firms but the bulk of my experience has strictly been related to Personal Tax Returns, Corporate Tax Returns, Notice to Reader Engagements, Financial Statement Preperation and Year Ends, Book Keeping tasks, Doing supporting work related to Tax Reviews, Audits for Personal and Corporate Tax Clients. The vast majority of customers i have dealt with all individuals and small business corporate clients. The biggest frustration is dealing with messy, unorganized small business clients and figuring out the errors they have made and then trying to correct them and fix their books. The other frustrating thing is that most firms don't charge them as much as they should for clients with messy documents, files and the end result is that the pressure falls on me to try to do the work accurately, fast, efficiently in record time when at times its not humanly possible and unnecessarily increases the stress level on me.

I was diagnosed with Aspergers Syndromme a few years ago and the reality of this problem catches up on me at times, it is very hard for me to work in a highly fast paced environment, it is a big struggle for me at times to note down super fast, highly technical instructions word for word with 100% accuracy and sometimes that can result in mistakes. I have found a way around it which works for me but there are times like right now in busy season where there is such a high volume of work and where everyone is on edge and under stress that it is not humanly possible to not miss something, or to not misunderstand an instruction and boy when that happens, you get roasted even if you have done a great job on 100-200 files and tasks before.

This is my biggest frustration with working for an accounting firm, you can do a great job on 100-200 files before, but one mistake and it gets highlighted and you are put on edge that you are going to be kicked out any second should the person you are reporting too lose it. The other biggest stress and frustration is that you are constantly working on so many files day in, day out and out of the blue your manager, partner calls you and starts querying you on a file you worked on 5-6 months ago and starts asking questions and you have to urgently refresh your memory in terms of what you were thinking off at the time when you worked on that file. The other frustration i have is that you have managers who themselves are extremely unorganized, who don't put in the time, effort to streamline things in advance so that we are prepared to handle things when the volume comes in during busy season and the end result is they end up taking their stresses and frustrations out on you. For e.g. just today my boss out of no where mentioned he gave a few files with respect to a couple of clients a month ago and i know full well he didn't and i would have remembered it or known about it if he did, he unnecessarily put me under pressure for one whole hour blaming me for misplacing the files apparently whereas i knew for a fact that he never gave me the files he was talking about, after coming to my desk and searching for it myself, he had no choice but to accept that perhaps he was mistaken and that he never gave me the files in the first place. But this is just an example of the stupid stressful things i have to underservedly deal with it and put up with and it really gets to me now.

By nature i am a very calm, easy going guy. I don't like confrontration and i am the first person to make peace and pacify a situation and with that i know full well that in the professional workplace you cannot disrespect hierarchy and given that i have been fired before in the past i.e. 4-5 times in Canada, some in very very brutal circumstances, i know full well if you **** off, offend, upset your seniors, boss, they can become very vindictive and personal and regardless of whether you are decently competent at your job, in a desire for vengeance they can kick you out any second and half you replaced in a jiffy given the massive number of fresh accounting graduates in the market available. This is why i have developed the attitude and ability to control my stresses, emotions, frustrations at the work places with my seniors and bosses and do whatever it takes to suck it up.

However, the other reasons why i am this way is sympathetic and emphatetic as well. I have seen seniors, managers and senior managers in the firms work under severe stress for partners and a lot of them don't have any lives outside work, they have a lot of responsibilities and i have seen spend insane amounts of time working away late at night even outside busy season. Intitially i was thinking as i was going through my accounting journey that i will get as much experience in an accounting firm, get my designation and then one day look to open my own practice but now i am not so sure.

I have been questioning myself for a long time whether this is what i really want for myself down the line in the future, the answer is No, Hell No certainly not for an accounting firm. One can make $80,000-100,000-120,000 a year but it is not worth it if you are working late hours almost everyday and working from home even and are always on edge.

My family circumstances have changed now as well, i will definately be getting married next year and i have one parent who is extremely unwell and i need to be around for her and cannot be stuck in the office working away till late hours and even working on Saturdays for a measly annual salary less than $40,000. Initially my plan was to stick to an accounting firm for at most another 4-5 years, to try and get some experience related to Audit and Review Engagements, try to get exposure on how to deal, negotiate and talk to clients and then explore the possibility of opening my accounting practice from home. I felt this route would be a better idea for me given that at the age of 34-35, the Big 4 route was not worth it and the hours are not going to be any better over there either and the amount of work you will be forced to do will be way more than your compensation.

But now i am having second thoughts as to whether will it be as easy or lucrative as one thinks, will it be any less stressful as working for another accounting firm. The other option i was considering is after obtaining the CPA designation, was to obtain the US CPA designation and if my family circumstances are such that if i need to move back to my home country i.e. Pakistan, then i would look into getting into the education industry where i can consider teaching accounting and related subjects to students in different high schools, universities and maybe even offer private tuitions to ACCA students. I thought that perhaps acquiring the Canadian CPA, US CPA and maybe ACCA qualification combined with my MBA from IBA and working in different accounting firms in Canada for a number of years might help give me some credibility. I believe this route would give me a better chance of helping me to maximize my potential and earning capacity rather than aimlessly working 10-12 hours a day for an accounting firm being paid a very measly salary and dealing with too much fast paced stress, time pressures and deadlines which i will not be able to cope with in the long run. Besides at the age of 35 now, i don't think trying to aim for a career in the big 4 is wise because working in the big 4 will mean working away very very long hours on a frequent basis.

So bottom line, i now need to make smart and best decisions for myself given my circumstances. If i am going to be staying and living in Canada, US for the rest of my life, then maybe i can think about working for another 3-5 years in an accounting firm and try to get more experience and then gradually take steps to try to establish my own accounting practice at home and see how it goes. The other option is to try and get into the govt i.e. CRA or Auditor General's office, enjoy a very good work life balance and then use the extra time to get into teaching like i know some people do and this way they manage to augment their incomes.

In the scenario if i am required to move back to Pakistan, then i think working for a company in Pakistan will be a backward step and the better idea would be to try and get into the education industry.

Thought i would atleast get some feedback, tips and advice from experienced accountants here.

I am really looking forward to suggestions and feedback from accountants because the accounting firm life is now really getting to me, it feels like torture having to deal with the stress now and i am desperate to find a way out for myself and not go on aimlessly forever.

Brother why dont you join industry as an accountant?

 

[Savak]

No buddy ... again confusion due to common word of finance ... CPA and CA are completely different trajectories... In Pakistan normally only best of the best qualify CA therefore they fit into alot of roles which involves finance but CA and CFA are completely different jobs and different type of organizations... I am giving a brief difference for the understanding of all:

CFA is analytics jobs of financial instruments and financial market just as bonds, shares, stock markets, futures and other investments. CFA can find jobs as investment bankers, banks risk departments, mutual funds or any other type of funds. CFA is a specialist type of job and cannot fit in generic jobs of accounting and finance. For example a CFA cannot find a job outside Banks, mutual funds, brokerage house of other similar investment related institutes.

CA is an entirely different qualification which is more about accounting and finance of an individual organization. Whereas CFA is about investment finance.
As CA your prime career path is either is partner of an audit firm of as CFO of a company. BUt CAs are not capable of doing specialist job of investment appraisals and investment banking.
In Pakistan big 4 audit firms generally able to grab a cream of the finance industry therefore they are able to produce professionals that has ability to gel into any professional role and thats the reasons we see CAs working as investment bankers and risk advisors of banks but CA as a qualification never teaches us the skill.



Brother why dont you join industry as an accountant?

That depends on the type of role. The problem in North America is that Big 4 accountants are highly preferred for industry positions, candidates from small to mid sized accounting firms are generally over looked or ignored.

My initial plan was to get as much experience and exposure in accounting firms as possible so that in 5 years time i might be in a good position to set up my own practice. But now i am having second thoughts as to whether it is worth it given the liability and stress involved and the hours involved.

Which is why now i think maybe making use of my accounting work experience, qualifications in education might be a better option instead.

 

[TacOps]

That depends on the type of role. The problem in North America is that Big 4 accountants are highly preferred for industry positions, candidates from small to mid sized accounting firms are generally over looked or ignored.

My initial plan was to get as much experience and exposure in accounting firms as possible so that in 5 years time i might be in a good position to set up my own practice. But now i am having second thoughts as to whether it is worth it given the liability and stress involved and the hours involved.

Which is why now i think maybe making use of my accounting work experience, qualifications in education might be a better option instead.

Your experience is primarily in tax, which even for an academic role will not be useful in Pakistan due to the different tax regime.

Practice is a challenging place to be in most parts of the world. However UK seems to be a better place for practicing professionals and I know that Big4 are hiring there at the moment. You may want to apply.

If you still want to move to Pakistan, I wouldn't count too much on finding a good teaching role or you may find one in a subject which you may not want to teach.

I would suggest trying hard for an industry position in Canada first. Take a cut if necessary.

 

[The Accountant]

Your experience is primarily in tax, which even for an academic role will not be useful in Pakistan due to the different tax regime.

Practice is a challenging place to be in most parts of the world. However UK seems to be a better place for practicing professionals and I know that Big4 are hiring there at the moment. You may want to apply.

If you still want to move to Pakistan, I wouldn't count too much on finding a good teaching role or you may find one in a subject which you may not want to teach.

I would suggest trying hard for an industry position in Canada first. Take a cut if necessary.

Rightly said

 

[Savak]

Just two days left before tax season is over. This is the first time I have to admit where I am feeling very blue and depressed, three months of working 10-12 plus hours a day with just Sunday off, eating fast food, junk food and having sodas, doing well on 100-150 files but one mistake on a file and getting an earful from your manager and partner, working on 500 files in a two month period and out of the blue getting a phone call and being interrogated on a file you worked on 4-5 months ago.

These things really add up. I now truly understand why people leave public accounting firms so early on in their careers. This is definitely not a healthy profession and can definitely have health implications down the line. I think I will have to see a shrink and then look at other options

 

[Savak]

Thought i would update everyone. I cleared my final CPA exam in Canada i.e. the CFE. Got the results today. Very happy and relieved that i don't have to give any more accounting exams in Canada atleast. I just need to complete another 4 months of audit work in this firm and then i can file my final work experience report with the institute and finally get the Canadian CPA designation.

The plan after that is to give one exam in the US and after clearing it i will obtain the US CPA designation.

With a Canadian and US CPA designation, i will just need to give one exam in the UK to obtain the UK ACCA designation.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Thought i would update everyone. I cleared my final CPA exam in Canada i.e. the CFE. Got the results today. Very happy and relieved that i don't have to give any more accounting exams in Canada atleast. I just need to complete another 4 months of audit work in this firm and then i can file my final work experience report with the institute and finally get the Canadian CPA designation.

The plan after that is to give one exam in the US and after clearing it i will obtain the US CPA designation.

With a Canadian and US CPA designation, i will just need to give one exam in the UK to obtain the UK ACCA designation.

Congratulations man

 

[The Diplomat]

Thought i would update everyone. I cleared my final CPA exam in Canada i.e. the CFE. Got the results today. Very happy and relieved that i don't have to give any more accounting exams in Canada atleast. I just need to complete another 4 months of audit work in this firm and then i can file my final work experience report with the institute and finally get the Canadian CPA designation.

The plan after that is to give one exam in the US and after clearing it i will obtain the US CPA designation.

With a Canadian and US CPA designation, i will just need to give one exam in the UK to obtain the UK ACCA designation.

Good luck! I've just started my Degree in Accounting & Finance... Recently signed up to ACCA and CIMA. If you need any help with CIMA information then here's someone that represents CIMA in the UK...
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/samantha-jane-mathieson-9a5ba790

I do know you're looking into ACCA but I can't really help in that field...

 

[Savak]

Thought i could use some insight from accountants over here. Due to the epidemic, i got temporarily laid off from the firm i was working for last month, they verbally told me that this was a temporary measure till things got better and that i can use the health benefits that they had signed me up for during this time. I was actually required by the provincial institute to complete 450 auditing/review hours before i could write my final work experience report to them and apply for the CPA designation with the right to perform audits, reviews. I have so far completed around 100 audit/review hours and was scheduled to work on plenty of audit and review engagements from the summer to the fall this year in 2020. The Institute has recognized 60% of my experience. The total working experience requirement is 30 months, out of which 18 has been recognized and i needed to complete the remaining 12. So far i am exceeding the requirement by an extra 2-3 years.

However this epidemic has changed things big time. There is no guarantee if the firm i was working for will rehire me as they have promised. This means i lose out on the guaranteed audit and review engagements i would have been given exposure too.

I contacted the institute regarding this dilemma and they have given me the option to apply for the CPA designation right now but without completing the 450 audit/review hours, i will not have the right to perform audits and reviews. I contacted an accounting mentor friend of mine and he was like you have worked so hard, come so far, why not try to complete the remaining audit/review hours from the firm you were working in if they rehire you or from another licensed firm should the lockdown end and the job market picks up again.

However based on my observation, most CPA's and Accountants actually move into industry or consulting roles which don't really need them to be licensed and they admit the time they spent on audits, review engagements was pretty much a waste of time for them.

Thought i would ask the experienced CPA's and accountants, is it really worth getting the designation but with the ability to perform audits, reviews?

Personally speaking i don't really desire to be working on audit and review engagements in the long run and neither do i find it fun, exciting, i just did it for the exposure and experience but must admit the work is pretty boring and dry and most small, mid sized firms end up incurring far greater WIP in comparison to the fees they charge and the audit/review fees they charge is just a fraction of what the Big 4 charges in comparison

 

[PakSword]

Thought i could use some insight from accountants over here. Due to the epidemic, i got temporarily laid off from the firm i was working for last month, they verbally told me that this was a temporary measure till things got better and that i can use the health benefits that they had signed me up for during this time. I was actually required by the provincial institute to complete 450 auditing/review hours before i could write my final work experience report to them and apply for the CPA designation with the right to perform audits, reviews. I have so far completed around 100 audit/review hours and was scheduled to work on plenty of audit and review engagements from the summer to the fall this year in 2020. The Institute has recognized 60% of my experience. The total working experience requirement is 30 months, out of which 18 has been recognized and i needed to complete the remaining 12. So far i am exceeding the requirement by an extra 2-3 years.

However this epidemic has changed things big time. There is no guarantee if the firm i was working for will rehire me as they have promised. This means i lose out on the guaranteed audit and review engagements i would have been given exposure too.

I contacted the institute regarding this dilemma and they have given me the option to apply for the CPA designation right now but without completing the 450 audit/review hours, i will not have the right to perform audits and reviews. I contacted an accounting mentor friend of mine and he was like you have worked so hard, come so far, why not try to complete the remaining audit/review hours from the firm you were working in if they rehire you or from another licensed firm should the lockdown end and the job market picks up again.

However based on my observation, most CPA's and Accountants actually move into industry or consulting roles which don't really need them to be licensed and they admit the time they spent on audits, review engagements was pretty much a waste of time for them.

Thought i would ask the experienced CPA's and accountants, is it really worth getting the designation but with the ability to perform audits, reviews?

Personally speaking i don't really desire to be working on audit and review engagements in the long run and neither do i find it fun, exciting, i just did it for the exposure and experience but must admit the work is pretty boring and dry and most small, mid sized firms end up incurring far greater WIP in comparison to the fees they charge and the audit/review fees they charge is just a fraction of what the Big 4 charges in comparison

Data Science.. if you have time and some savings, invest in Data Science and try to integrate it with your audit knowledge..

 

[Zhukov]

Hello. I am a Qualified CMA as well as FMVA.
If you want to start career as Practicing Accountant in USA, CPA from AICPA is your Only option. Or CMA from IMA-US if you want to practice in management accounting.
Canada is a different ball game. Every region have its own CPA in Canada.
I dont know at which stage your career or acedemics is so cant say more then that.

@The Accountant Can ICAEW recognised accountants practice in the US?

I'll be entering first year uni this September and will be studying BSc Accounting & Finance.

I dont think so. ICAEW is from UK and is based on UK accounting practices, IFRS, Tax and corporate conpliance.
US accounting system is based on US GAAPs and their own Tax and corporate system. you have to do US CPA to get a practice of liscence in USA.

 

[famoj47521]

Dear if you want to go abroad do Acca .Pakistan C.A is tough and finding good audit firm for training is very challenging here in Pakistan if you clear c.a inter in more than 6 attempts .I have completed c.a inter 6 months ago in Pakistan and now after 6 months I am able to find auditfirm which is not in top 10 list and my 6months are wasted and still 8 papers are needed to be qualified to become complete c.a

whats the PEAK of a C.A's salary?

How much can you earn in after 10 years in the field?

 

[PakFactor]

I’m surprised all the work you accountants have to do to get your designation but the pay isn’t what I expected.

 

[Verve]

I'll be entering first year uni this September and will be studying BSc Accounting & Finance

If you want to do CIMA or ACCA, don't waste your time with an accountancy degree!

CIMA exams are computer based now and you can get through one stage in 4 months if studying full time! 4 stages in 2 years if you put in hard work and dedication.

Does your 3 years degree give you full exemptions, for CIMA or ACCA? If not, do not waste your time and effort with the degree. Accounting degrees hold zero value in industry now!

 

[PakFactor]

If you want to do CIMA or ACCA, don't waste your time with an accountancy degree!

CIMA exams are computer based now and you can get through one stage in 4 months if studying full time! 4 stages in 2 years if you put in hard work and dedication.

Does your 3 years degree give you full exemptions, for CIMA or ACCA? If not, do not waste your time and effort with the degree. Accounting degrees hold zero value in industry now!

Best to get a finance degree with a minor in accountancy.

I did my BA in Economics and Finance and MBA Finance. But anyone doing a degree should be ready with the mindset you’ll probably not work in the field you intend.

I graduated during the recession had a family business and I started working for the insurance agent that insured the business. Totally unrelated to what I studied. After 3 years I struck out on my own as an independent agent with my own agency.

Had I wanted to go back to my industry it was already to late as fresh grads were being picked. I then ventured also into lecturing at a community college teaching Entrepreneur Ship and Business.