I’m expecting Viet and his buddy to post those pie chart and graphs trying to link Viet and Han together, the all too familiar ones that always get posted on the other Vietnamese forum I once mentioned. Cos thats the true desire of these guys, trying to make a link between Viets and Han.
Projection.
Don't kid yourself.
A few Vietnamese do this but most don't. Far more common is Chinese netizens wanting to be associated with Koreans and Japanese, due to their profound insecurities w.r.t. whites. Much more common still is Southern Han wanting to be Northern Han, i.e. wanting to be FULL NEA (Northeast Asian), which is ridiculous, since even Korean and Japanese are at least 25% SEA. Someone here on on this forum deleted an entire thread because I posted stuff like this. Naturally, I'll post it again. It is germane to the present debate(s).
Below,
1. NEA = Northeast Asian, SEA = Southeast Asian.
2. In the quote below, Chinese are not separated between Northern and Southern Han, as they should be. Geneticist delineate between Northern and Southern Han based on genetic distances. Southern Han like Vietnamese have SEA maternal ancestry, via numerous mtDNA studies going back 25 years.
3. Koreans are not given in this particular data set.
Your Regional Ancestry: Reference Populations
Kinh = 57% NEA + 43% SEA
Chinese = 72% NEA + 28% SEA
Japan = 75% NEA + 25% SEA
Mongolian = 65% NEA + 12% Southwest Asian + 4% Native American + 9% SEA + 6% Northern European
Source: google "National Geographic Your Regional Ancestry: Reference Populations"
(Note: Forum rules won't allow new members to post links.)
When I found out that Vietnamese were 57% NEA, I was shocked and quite disappointed. I never saw myself as Chinese. Heck, growing up in the US, I see myself as Asian American or Vietnamese American. I enjoy only western movies (Fellini's 8 1/2, Citizen Kane, Inception, Mad Max Fury Road), music (Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Floyd, Nat King Cole), literature (Homer, Beowulf, Shakespeare, Joyce) and art (Monet, Van Gogh, Degas...)... Nothing Chinese here. (The only thing Chinese I've ever coveted is dim sum and Bruce Lee. Let me tell you, when I was about 10 years old and found out Bruce Lee was not Vietnamese, I was devasted. Still am to this day, LOL.)
I had previously thought at most, Vietnamese were 10% NEA, i.e. from mixing with Chinese immigrants during the Han era of domination.
And mind you, we don't know exactly when and where this 57% NEA came from, it's certainly not all Han, or more generally Chinese (i.e. pre-Han era domination of Vietnam during the first millenium). Recent mtDNA and morphological (skeletal) studies suggest at least some (e.g. M7a), if not most of it, came into Northern Vietnam about 4000 years ago, and modern Chinese do NOT have some of the same genetic markers (M7a, etc.) from this ancient source, while others (D4) is common in both modern Northern Chinese and modern Japanese but not modern Southern Chinese. This could mean proto-Vietnamese are the parents of modern Chinese and Japanese, quite the opposite of what you are trying to project onto Vietnamese generally (genetically), and the motives of Vietnames netizens in particular. Indeed, many geneticists have for decades believed the peopling of both NE Asia and SE Asia came thru Northern Vietnam, vis-a-vis studies on certain key mtDNA and Y-DNA markers.
Note: Most of the geneticists I'm directly (but non explicitly) citing are
not Vietnamese, indeed, many are Chinese.
South Chinese = North Chinese + Vietnamese/Dai
In History and Geography of Human Genes L. L. Cavalli-Sforza reported that Southern Chinese formed a clade with Southeast Asians, while Northern Chinese formed one with Northeast Chinese. Genome-wide results don’t seem to support this inference. The Han do exhibit north-south structure.
The Southern Chinese do have closer affinities to southeast Asian groups and ethnic minorities in the south.
Many of the native ethnic groups of China proper don’t seem to be that different than Han Chinese. In fact, they resemble Han in their own region. This might be gene flow, or, it might just be that the Han for whatever reason were the demographic winners over the last 4,000 years in China proper and marginalized the other groups.
Source: google "unz Razib Khan South Chinese = North Chinese + Vietnamese/Dai"
Southern Han are deathly afraid of stuff like this, and throw a fit when it is mentioned. Note, Razib Khan is not Vietnamese.
