S.M.R
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Just read my post # 50 above. Yaar agar sirf humari police hoti to woh kab ka bhaaag gaya hota. Thanks ISI, log live ISI
Another R. Davis?
- Thread starter Saifullah Sani
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Just read my post # 50 above. Yaar agar sirf humari police hoti to woh kab ka bhaaag gaya hota. Thanks ISI, log live ISI
Saifullah Sani
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don't forget that a traffic police constable caught ramond davisJust read my post # 50 above. Yaar agar sirf humari police hoti to woh kab ka bhaaag gaya hota. Thanks ISI, log live ISI
S.M.R
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This is what apparently looks like. Imagine our traffic police, they are just get threatened by a lawyer, journalist, Amreeki aur woh bhi itnay saray cards kay saath, us ko peshaab hi nikal jayay ga. ISI people were there who ensured his safe landing in Police Station.
U-571
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yes your CIA guys are innocent people along with RAW and MOSSAD, ISI is trying to destroy our country, CIA is protecting pakistan infact
*Awan*
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Daily Express News Story
Police stopped land cruiser with 4 Americans and asked them to come out of their vehicle.But they refused.
Police stopped vehicle no IDF-7582 and asked about the identity of the passengers.they locked their vehicle and refused to reveal their identity.when higher officels from police reached there they said that they are from American Embassy. but they don't have documents.According to police no plate of vehicle was idf-7582 but on dash board no was 64-164.police let them go at night.and according to officials their names were Stephen russel,mark richard,kevin,wagnis???
Any body now how many American are in Pak.and how many of them had diplomatic immunity?
i think we should close Peshawar and Karachi consulates.
For record RD come to Pak during flood relief.
So American give aid with bunch of spies.
Police stopped land cruiser with 4 Americans and asked them to come out of their vehicle.But they refused.
Police stopped vehicle no IDF-7582 and asked about the identity of the passengers.they locked their vehicle and refused to reveal their identity.when higher officels from police reached there they said that they are from American Embassy. but they don't have documents.According to police no plate of vehicle was idf-7582 but on dash board no was 64-164.police let them go at night.and according to officials their names were Stephen russel,mark richard,kevin,wagnis???
Any body now how many American are in Pak.and how many of them had diplomatic immunity?
i think we should close Peshawar and Karachi consulates.
For record RD come to Pak during flood relief.
So American give aid with bunch of spies.
In a hurry to bust yanks in Pakistan, eh? Let's see...Headley, Khan and Faisal Shahzad- all known Pakistani terrorists busted in America. Bet there's a few more Pakistanis in America we could (and SHOULD) bust. Quite a few in fact.
Go for it. Toss all the Americans out on their azzes. Nothing would more please me.
Thanks.
HAHAHA
And how many of them were actually holding diplomatic passports provided by Government of Pakistan? Were they carrying weapons at the time of arrests or travelling in vehicles with fake numbers? Did the American police stood by while they refused to cooperate with them? Were they found photographing Military Installations?
By the way Headely is Canadian national not Pakistani. Time to move beyond FAUX news.
Yes all the lazy law breaking arrogant Americans should be kicked out of Pakistan.
muse
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S2
You need to make sense - and you need to think these positions through - mostly right now, your positions are emotion -- not saying that's some how invalid for you - just that emotion will not allow us to negotiate this maze of "Great game" geo-politics.
You need to make sense - and you need to think these positions through - mostly right now, your positions are emotion -- not saying that's some how invalid for you - just that emotion will not allow us to negotiate this maze of "Great game" geo-politics.
Luftwaffe
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S2 is reading and getting amused by the posts, its time to bury this thread...
His purpose of post was to enlighten the posters that those american citizens arrested were of Pakistani origin, so what, yes american citizens what is so big deal s2 has a root in europe he ain't indigenous american unless he is aboriginal lol...
Go go ahead arrest more Pakistanis origin US citizens Ok it has absolutely no impact on Pakistan.
Hey I am glad on one thing that egyptian man who busted and blew CIA men in afghanistan the main headquarters that was an awesome blow to US intelligence : )
His purpose of post was to enlighten the posters that those american citizens arrested were of Pakistani origin, so what, yes american citizens what is so big deal s2 has a root in europe he ain't indigenous american unless he is aboriginal lol...
Go go ahead arrest more Pakistanis origin US citizens Ok it has absolutely no impact on Pakistan.
Hey I am glad on one thing that egyptian man who busted and blew CIA men in afghanistan the main headquarters that was an awesome blow to US intelligence : )
S-2
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"your positions are emotion -- not saying that's some how invalid for you...
just that emotion will not allow us to negotiate this maze of "Great game" geo-politics."
My central position has remained unchanged since I began posting here some years ago.
This is a war brought to America by Al Qaeda whom were hosted by the Afghan taliban government. The Afghan taliban are a pashtun-based political entity that have nothing to do with the multi-ethnic afghan mujahideen whom fought the Soviet Union other than a shared military experience by some of their very senior leaders.
They were founded by the spontaneous actions of Mullah Omar in southern Oruzgan province in 1994 and adopted by your ISI in preference to Hezb-i-Gulbuddin during the Afghan civil war. They became the dominant military faction during the Afghan civil war, seized control over most of Afghanistan, established a medieval society and sponsored Al Qaeda.
When America was attacked and we responded the Afghan taliban government was ousted from power. They seeked and found sanctuary on Pakistani lands from where they've continued the war upon the Afghan people in defiance of the U.N. mandate. They also infected their Pakistani pashtun cousins in FATAville with their unusually arch-conservative and harsh vision of an islamic society while finding kindred souls among your punjabi-based Kashmiri freedom-fighters like those of LeT.
Some here believe Pakistan has been unenthusiastically enlisted in a war not of their choosing. Too bad. So have Americans, Brits, Indonesians, Spaniards, Yemenis, Jordanians, Iraqis and anybody else that's been touched by the scourge of Al Qaeda.
I've been told our aid hardly equates with the cost to Pakistan from this war. No doubt. I assure you that America hasn't been enriched by this war either.
The afghan and Pakistani tribal pashtun have common cause born of shared blood, culture and religion running far deeper than temporal allegiances to the latest governments to pass through those hills and sand.
Still, are you mercenaries or fellow-travellers and allies to this cause? Had Al Qaeda NOT attacked America in Nairobi, Dar-es-Salaam, Yemen and/or 9/11, Pakistan would quite likely have experienced the pangs and throes of the TTP insurgency it currently battles in any case.
Either that or acquiesce to a vision of Islam assured to bring unremitting misery to your sisters, mothers, wives and daughters.
So...this war is Pakistan's whether those here like it or not and likely always would have been whether America became involved or not. Pakistan's own relationship with the Afghan taliban government prior to 9/11 should have proved sufficient that you held a wolf by the throat and couldn't let go without it killing you.
Oddly at this board, however, that which is completely unacceptable for Pakistani women is happily hoped to be foisted upon Afghan women. It must be so! Afterall, has not Pakistan willingly aborgated its sovereign rights over FATAville to the Afghan taliban government for a decade now?
Do not responsibilities come with rights? If so, then the Pakistani government is either responsible for cleaning up this FATAville mess or responsible for presiding over it. One or the other.
America is Pakistan's ally. That may come as a surprise to your fellow board-members but it's very, very true. My government doesn't want your nukes. We'd very much like to see a democratic system of government emerge in Pakistan with a strong and wise judiciary, sound governance, consistently-held elections and stable, growing economy. Our aid can't replace all you've lost in this war nor can we provide every weapon your arsenal would desire against your eternal enemy. Then again, we can't replace all WE'VE lost in this war either and we've no expectation of Pakistan (or anybody else) ever assisting us in that respect.
Our drones will fly over Pakistan so long as the afghan people, ISAF and our troops are attacked at the direction of an afghan taliban leadership encamped on Pakistani lands. A determined, good-faith effort to rid this scourge from Pakistani lands has long been necessary. Successfully doing so is another matter but the world needs to see that Pakistan actually cares to do so. That alone would go far to elevate Pakistan's global stature.
Your soldiers now fight hard and courageously against the TTP. Understandably. They are your enemy...and America's too. America provides no sanctuary to TTP nor anti-Pakistani Baloch nationalist training camps upon Afghan soil. I've read no indications from other ISAF allies, NGOs or independant media of such within Afghanistan either. We make war in Kunar, Nuristan, Nangahar, Khost, Paktia, Paktika and Ghazni (and many other provinces) daily. Often but not always with success.
We cannot be perfect. Our forces aren't large enough and the Afghan army is neither sufficiently large nor good enough to accomplish all our objectives. We've also made many tactical and operational mistakes. We'll continue to do so as long as we're in Afghanistan.
We do, however, try...and try very hard. Believing otherwise is foolish. We'd happily kill Hakimullah Mehsud if we could. We've not forgotten the suicide attack upon our C.I.A. base in Khost. So too Qari Ziarul Rahman. We've battled Rahman's forces in Kunar for many years and there's been much U.S. blood (and a goodly amount of Rahman's troops as well) spilled in those lonely valleys.
Someday soon I hope the Pakistani army will take on Siraj Haqqani. I also hope that's not a forlorn desire.
Hope that's sufficiently emotionless for you.
just that emotion will not allow us to negotiate this maze of "Great game" geo-politics."
My central position has remained unchanged since I began posting here some years ago.
This is a war brought to America by Al Qaeda whom were hosted by the Afghan taliban government. The Afghan taliban are a pashtun-based political entity that have nothing to do with the multi-ethnic afghan mujahideen whom fought the Soviet Union other than a shared military experience by some of their very senior leaders.
They were founded by the spontaneous actions of Mullah Omar in southern Oruzgan province in 1994 and adopted by your ISI in preference to Hezb-i-Gulbuddin during the Afghan civil war. They became the dominant military faction during the Afghan civil war, seized control over most of Afghanistan, established a medieval society and sponsored Al Qaeda.
When America was attacked and we responded the Afghan taliban government was ousted from power. They seeked and found sanctuary on Pakistani lands from where they've continued the war upon the Afghan people in defiance of the U.N. mandate. They also infected their Pakistani pashtun cousins in FATAville with their unusually arch-conservative and harsh vision of an islamic society while finding kindred souls among your punjabi-based Kashmiri freedom-fighters like those of LeT.
Some here believe Pakistan has been unenthusiastically enlisted in a war not of their choosing. Too bad. So have Americans, Brits, Indonesians, Spaniards, Yemenis, Jordanians, Iraqis and anybody else that's been touched by the scourge of Al Qaeda.
I've been told our aid hardly equates with the cost to Pakistan from this war. No doubt. I assure you that America hasn't been enriched by this war either.
The afghan and Pakistani tribal pashtun have common cause born of shared blood, culture and religion running far deeper than temporal allegiances to the latest governments to pass through those hills and sand.
Still, are you mercenaries or fellow-travellers and allies to this cause? Had Al Qaeda NOT attacked America in Nairobi, Dar-es-Salaam, Yemen and/or 9/11, Pakistan would quite likely have experienced the pangs and throes of the TTP insurgency it currently battles in any case.
Either that or acquiesce to a vision of Islam assured to bring unremitting misery to your sisters, mothers, wives and daughters.
So...this war is Pakistan's whether those here like it or not and likely always would have been whether America became involved or not. Pakistan's own relationship with the Afghan taliban government prior to 9/11 should have proved sufficient that you held a wolf by the throat and couldn't let go without it killing you.
Oddly at this board, however, that which is completely unacceptable for Pakistani women is happily hoped to be foisted upon Afghan women. It must be so! Afterall, has not Pakistan willingly aborgated its sovereign rights over FATAville to the Afghan taliban government for a decade now?
Do not responsibilities come with rights? If so, then the Pakistani government is either responsible for cleaning up this FATAville mess or responsible for presiding over it. One or the other.
America is Pakistan's ally. That may come as a surprise to your fellow board-members but it's very, very true. My government doesn't want your nukes. We'd very much like to see a democratic system of government emerge in Pakistan with a strong and wise judiciary, sound governance, consistently-held elections and stable, growing economy. Our aid can't replace all you've lost in this war nor can we provide every weapon your arsenal would desire against your eternal enemy. Then again, we can't replace all WE'VE lost in this war either and we've no expectation of Pakistan (or anybody else) ever assisting us in that respect.
Our drones will fly over Pakistan so long as the afghan people, ISAF and our troops are attacked at the direction of an afghan taliban leadership encamped on Pakistani lands. A determined, good-faith effort to rid this scourge from Pakistani lands has long been necessary. Successfully doing so is another matter but the world needs to see that Pakistan actually cares to do so. That alone would go far to elevate Pakistan's global stature.
Your soldiers now fight hard and courageously against the TTP. Understandably. They are your enemy...and America's too. America provides no sanctuary to TTP nor anti-Pakistani Baloch nationalist training camps upon Afghan soil. I've read no indications from other ISAF allies, NGOs or independant media of such within Afghanistan either. We make war in Kunar, Nuristan, Nangahar, Khost, Paktia, Paktika and Ghazni (and many other provinces) daily. Often but not always with success.
We cannot be perfect. Our forces aren't large enough and the Afghan army is neither sufficiently large nor good enough to accomplish all our objectives. We've also made many tactical and operational mistakes. We'll continue to do so as long as we're in Afghanistan.
We do, however, try...and try very hard. Believing otherwise is foolish. We'd happily kill Hakimullah Mehsud if we could. We've not forgotten the suicide attack upon our C.I.A. base in Khost. So too Qari Ziarul Rahman. We've battled Rahman's forces in Kunar for many years and there's been much U.S. blood (and a goodly amount of Rahman's troops as well) spilled in those lonely valleys.
Someday soon I hope the Pakistani army will take on Siraj Haqqani. I also hope that's not a forlorn desire.
Hope that's sufficiently emotionless for you.
muse
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That your positions have not changed since you began posting here is regrettable - it suggests that you have made an effort to not learn - it's your prerogative of course, but generally, certainly in my experience, finding no reason to change one's understanding is not something to be proud of -- certainly the narrative you find persuasive, well, would you grant that it's one facet - or are you persuaded that your understanding encapsulates the totality of geopolitics and history of recent events??
I don't think a majority will disagree with you that this is as much their war as yours, however; the contention here is that we seek different outcomes from this war -- these different outcomes suggest that at a basic level, there is a disconnect, a divergence of interests.
To my thinking, if this disconnect could not be resolved in ten years, it is not about to be resolved - we can choose to move past it and focus on other issues on which we may cooperate, but this issue of disconnect, will eventually poison what remains of the relationship - the Pakistanis, it's fair to say, i think, this disconnect has a existential dimension, they may relent under pressure but fundamentally, they will not allow this national interest to whither.
For the US, if these ten years did not result in altering the perceived interest in Pakistan, another ten years and 20 Billion don't do it either, and especially since it is understood the US must evacuate --- so fly the drones, what whatever it is you think you must do in Afghanistan - but unless you can deal with the reality that you must and will evacuate and in doing so allow a number of players to exercise in a more level playing field, for them, all the chest thumping will be for naught.
Fundamentally Pakistan and the US cannot seem to agree on whether or not Pakistan MAY effect events to the benefit of her interests -- and the US does not even acknowledge that Pakistan actually has interests in Afghanistan.
S2, beyond the whole terrorism stuff, once US is out of Afghanistan -- where will it go?? There is a world of economy and resource competition has been going on, regardless of WOT or not WOT -- please take a careful look at a map of Central, South and South West Asia -- Where are the US welcome??
See, India will grow and so will Pakistan - we wish India well in her efforts to raise her population in to an existence of dignity -- and we do encourage a look at that map again --
Back to WOT -- want to win?? May I suggest that the US focus her considerable resources on the Arabian peninsula? That's where the poison is emanating from -- and unless the US can make it right with Iran, the US will continue to be unable to speak truth to power in Riyadh -- in the long run, the US must deal with why she does not have deep or mutually friendly relations with a single Muslim majority country, why this discomfort with each other is deep, structural --
By the way there is a WP article - "5 Myths about Pakistan" you may enjoy reading
I don't think a majority will disagree with you that this is as much their war as yours, however; the contention here is that we seek different outcomes from this war -- these different outcomes suggest that at a basic level, there is a disconnect, a divergence of interests.
To my thinking, if this disconnect could not be resolved in ten years, it is not about to be resolved - we can choose to move past it and focus on other issues on which we may cooperate, but this issue of disconnect, will eventually poison what remains of the relationship - the Pakistanis, it's fair to say, i think, this disconnect has a existential dimension, they may relent under pressure but fundamentally, they will not allow this national interest to whither.
For the US, if these ten years did not result in altering the perceived interest in Pakistan, another ten years and 20 Billion don't do it either, and especially since it is understood the US must evacuate --- so fly the drones, what whatever it is you think you must do in Afghanistan - but unless you can deal with the reality that you must and will evacuate and in doing so allow a number of players to exercise in a more level playing field, for them, all the chest thumping will be for naught.
Fundamentally Pakistan and the US cannot seem to agree on whether or not Pakistan MAY effect events to the benefit of her interests -- and the US does not even acknowledge that Pakistan actually has interests in Afghanistan.
S2, beyond the whole terrorism stuff, once US is out of Afghanistan -- where will it go?? There is a world of economy and resource competition has been going on, regardless of WOT or not WOT -- please take a careful look at a map of Central, South and South West Asia -- Where are the US welcome??
See, India will grow and so will Pakistan - we wish India well in her efforts to raise her population in to an existence of dignity -- and we do encourage a look at that map again --
Back to WOT -- want to win?? May I suggest that the US focus her considerable resources on the Arabian peninsula? That's where the poison is emanating from -- and unless the US can make it right with Iran, the US will continue to be unable to speak truth to power in Riyadh -- in the long run, the US must deal with why she does not have deep or mutually friendly relations with a single Muslim majority country, why this discomfort with each other is deep, structural --
By the way there is a WP article - "5 Myths about Pakistan" you may enjoy reading
muse
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Below is a link to the 5 myths article
http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/112664-five-myths-about-pakistan-washingtonpost.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/112664-five-myths-about-pakistan-washingtonpost.html
majesticpankaj
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how many RDs are roaming free in pakistan??? and who is accountable for that ?
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