Another journalist falls

[Solomon2]

You suppose an awful alot, and in cases like these, suppositions based on nothing don't really carry any weight.

Which is why I share many questions with Eyeless on this matter and don't put much basis in my suppositions; indeed, I only offered them because I was asked to speculate.

He was in Miranshah...you don't have to have alot of bad blood with anybody to get killed in places like these. There are literally hundreds of reasons somebody could have killed him.

Hmm. And how many such people would have access to a car with illegally-tinted windows?

Why do we always have to blame the agencies or Army or FC for anything that happens in the country? Sure the past may not be hunky dory, but that doesn't mean that every other fart by any guy has to be sponsored by agencies.

Some people distinguish between two forms of corruption: active and passive. A policeman who is actively corrupt will do something illegal, whereas one who is passively corrupt would never do so but looks the other way or is derelict in his duty or responsibility. The "passive" guy believes he is "good" compared to the other but both types can lead to dreadful results. The Russians (at least under Communist rule when I studied this matter) believe the actively corrupt are preferable because "good" people can suddenly turn bad, usually in difficult moments. So it's better to deal with "bad" people because at least then you know what you're in for.

Who knows when that "good" policeman will take a bribe to let an assassin pass in a car with tinted windows? At least a "bad" policeman can be trusted to demand payoffs from most everyone, yet stop a suspicious vehicle because it endangers his long-term economic welfare.

Make law enforcement accountable to the law and democratic civilian oversight you'll go some way to fixing Pakistan's problems - including the perception that it's the agencies, Army, or FC that are always responsible for killing reporters.

 

[Amaa'n]

No, you didn't. You seem to be a rather confused person today. Why not grab a lassi and kick back for a bit?

thats a good one when you have nothing to say you simply start personal attacks, this is the problem with you guys, rather than coming clean you just hide behind the curtains and points finger.
I said earlier and asking again, what if Intelligence agencies give a statement that they had no hand in this would you believe them like you believed TTP denying any hand?

In Pakistan people get shot on the road over small arguements( mujhe side mari, tune ye kiya , wo kiya, tujhe jaldi hai kya.......). R.I.P to the dead.

Hmm. And how many such people would have access to a car with illegally-tinted windows?

My dear I am inviting you to have a lunch with me whenever you are in Pakistan, I will take you out for a trip with complete tint without any hassle, and believe me I am no LEA/ Govt employee but just an ordinary citizen.
In Pakistan, most of the Japanese cars being imported have factory fitted tinted windows. I personally own one and can share the picture if it satisfy you.

In pakistan tinted glass at Times is common among teenagers especially when on a Date......

 

[Jango]

Hmm. And how many such people would have access to a car with illegally-tinted windows?

Tinted windows in Pakistan are as common as guns in Texas. Every other car has tinted windows, be it in Lahore, or Karachi or anywhere else. Islamabad police got a bit strict on them a couple of years ago though.

Make law enforcement accountable to the law and democratic civilian oversight you'll go some way to fixing Pakistan's problems - including the perception that it's the agencies, Army, or FC that are always responsible for killing reporters.

The civilians themselves have to be competent enough so as to keep an overwatch on the military. You don't let thieves guard jail cells do you?

As for the perception, there is alot more that needs to be changed to change the perception rather than just strengthen civilian control over Army.

 

[Solomon2]

The civilians themselves have to be competent enough so as to keep an overwatch on the military. You don't let thieves guard jail cells do you?

If necessary. The Pakistani military's mistake from Day One - October 7, 1958 - was to accept the reigns of government rather than stay in the barracks, thus letting Mirza's "state of emergency" fail and a new polity form to secure the country. (The generals could have claimed that there was no internal emergency danger that they thought they could address, only parliamentary political disorder.)

In some eras the U.S. government very much looked like a bunch of thieves - the Andrew Jackson administration, the post-civil war era (even under honest presidents like Grant), the Harding Administration. In no case would "martial law" have improved matters and we Americans can be glad that our Constitution made no provision for it.

As for the perception, there is alot more that needs to be changed to change the perception rather than just strengthen civilian control over Army.

Yes, you might consider civilian accountability too, which works best with town hall meetings amid a literate populace. Since you don't have much literacy you might want to consider making adult remedial literary education a priority - or else limit the franchise to those that can read, opening yet another can of worms.

 

[Ayush]

rip to him.

 

[Solomon2]

thats a good one when you have nothing to say you simply start personal attacks -

It was a constructive suggestion and not meant to be a personal attack.

what if Intelligence agencies give a statement that they had no hand in this would you believe them like you believed TTP denying any hand?

Pakistan's intel agencies have little accountability to civilians, so I consider such a statement, even if true, an implicit threat.

My dear I am inviting you to have a lunch with me whenever you are in Pakistan, I will take you out for a trip with complete tint without any hassle, and believe me I am no LEA/ Govt employee but just an ordinary citizen.

I believe you, but unless you're in the furniture or textile business I just won't have the time to spare.

 

[Amaa'n]

It was a constructive suggestion and not meant to be a personal attack.

Pakistan's intel agencies have little accountability to civilians, so I consider such a statement, even if true, an implicit threat.

I believe you, but unless you're in the furniture or textile business I just won't have the time to spare.

i think nuclearpak answered it already about Intel agencies accountability to the civilians, civilians abuse their power that why is nobody trust them, that is the reason 89% pakistanis still trust these same intel agencies. I wonder why?

On the other note, stop pretending like you care about this country or the free media, if you wana do chest thumping on the Human Rights voilations i suggest you look somewhere else like kidnapping of Prosecuter General Balochistan, like another jounalist who was killed by the target killers in balochistan today

DG IB replaced
This is the Civilian Intelligence agency, directly under the control of CE / PM of the country, though all of transfers are not made public but i would suggest you look into it that how many times they have replaced the DG, not because he was incompetent, its because he failed to do what they wanted......this is the reason Army doesn't trust them.

 

[muse]

Any Journalist who will not toe the TTP (read ISI) line with regard to the coming "negotiations will either have to find other work or be dead -- The negotiations are going to get favorable press or none at all -

 

[acid rain]

Any Journalist who will not toe the TTP (read ISI) line with regard to the coming "negotiations will either have to find other work or be dead -- The negotiations are going to get favorable press or none at all -

@muse, Sir, you do give damning remarks many times, are you anti establishment or is it just frustration expressing itself? I find it hard to believe that the ISI and TTP are together....TTP has been at the front in attacking military establishments and Pakistani security forces...what you seem to be suggesting is blasphemous.

 

[Hindustani]

Sad.. condolences to the family members, may he RIP

 

[muse]

@muse, Sir, you do give damning remarks many times, are you anti establishment or is it just frustration expressing itself? I find it hard to believe that the ISI and TTP are together....TTP has been at the front in attacking military establishments and Pakistani security forces...what you seem to be suggesting is blasphemous.

Yes, my language has been imprecise, to my thinking there are elements of the ISI that are in collusion with TTP --- do keep an eye on how these negotiations are to proceed and who is involved, one element of opinion suggests that the TTP have basically blackmailed their way into the Pakistani national political body by threatening politicians (violence during campaigns), and that's credible, at least to me, similarly, I find it interesting that the army remains non-committed, both to fighting the army and to peace making.

 

[acid rain]

Yes, my language has been imprecise, to my thinking there are elements of the ISI that are in collusion with TTP --- do keep an eye on how these negotiations are to proceed and who is involved, one element of opinion suggests that the TTP have basically blackmailed their way into the Pakistani national political body by threatening politicians (violence during campaigns), and that's credible, at least to me, similarly, I find it interesting that the army remains non-committed, both to fighting the army and to peace making.

Do You see TTP vying for a political presence in Pakistan? but how can they convince Pakistani's who cannot ignore the mass killings that the TTP has orchestrated?

Elements of the ISI involved with the TTP tantamounts to high treason by having a hand in attacking military assets and the beheading of soldiers, again I find it hard to beleive that as well. Can you give a reason why you think so?

and, Sir, there could be multiple reasons why the army is non commital to fight the terrorists, one reason I can think of is shortage of resources or high attrition/losses if it undertakes such an action, second could be a heavy blowback inside Pakistan, third could be it loses or weakens PA's chances of taking back Afghanistan after ISAF withdraws if it kills many taliban. Fourth could the TTP is highly enmeshed/interlinked with other taliban factions and fundamentalist groups and the PA cannot afford antagonising its pro- factions. Fifth, as you say the army is out to sell the nation to the hardliners - which I dont believe is true.

Direct approval to Peacemaking rids the army of its chance to strike them, or walk away unscathed if the agreement collapses - they can very well put the onus on the civvies if it does not work out as desired. Indirect green light must be on.